Scotland Threatens to Leave U.K. If Forced Out of Single Market

[Deleted]

Staying in the EU was the carrot the UK used to convince Scotland to stay in the UK.

very good point, except the majority of wales voted to leave, too.

[Deleted]

Why would it? Germany and France want to keep as many countries and people as possible in the EU. When Scotland breaks from the UK, becomes independend and joins the EU again, than this is great. This is EXACTLY what Germany and France want.

I don't know what my country as a whole wants (=Germany), but I surely would welcome Scotland to be part of the EU, so travelling would become easier. Also, Scotland has my sympathy. :3

[Machismo]

Alex Salmond, Nicol Sturgeon and many of the SNP big wigs at the time promised it was a once in a lifetime event.

Also 'England' (The UK) DID uphold its promise to devolve further powers to Scotland. The Scottish government has several new powers over things like tax. If you think Scotland is some screwed over and oppressed province, you have no perspective on the way things are.

I guess it's a twice in a lifetime event, lucky you. Scotland wants to be in the EU, that's pretty clear (at least the majority does). If they decide they want to be in the EU more than the UK, then you have your answer. In both cases, it is a democratic vote.

Now, is there anything that makes it illegal to put it up for a vote?

[Deleted]

So hypothetically: if scotland unilaterally secedes, is there some law the UK has that allows them to intervene militarily?

[Deleted]

scotland also voted to stay in the uk. apparently thats less important.

They voted remain in that referendum because remain also meant to remain in the EU. If Brexit would have been a topic back then, the referendum would have gone quite differently, so I think. Fun fact, I was in Scotland on holiday in the 2 weeks right before the referendum and heard local radio during the whole travels, where this topic was highly discussed. Of course, EU was not the only topic for decision, there have been military issues as well, for example, but still. With Brexit, things changed very much.

[Machismo]

Well, first don't assume what I want to happen, because just like the EU I was on the fence on this, i simply believe in giving what the people voted for. If you upend that with making a second vote to change it because the losers weren't happy, then thats what pisses me off.

And if another vote comes up, the people will once again have what they want. If you believe in giving the people what they vote for, then why are you complaining if the people choose to vote?

[Jessicka]

So hypothetically: if scotland unilaterally secedes, is there some law the UK has that allows them to intervene militarily?

Our nukes are in Scotland.

[Machismo]

yes, which was also a democratic system that brought that in.

Or would you sooner live in a country like north korea?

You are the one complaining about democracy all of a sudden.

[schwarzkopf]

If I thought the majority of the Scottish people wanted this then I would have no problem.

The majority of Scots want to stay in the EU.

The rest is complex because it comes down to which they want more - the EU or the UK, that's where the referendum comes in.

[Deleted]

Europe and Germany and France in particular dont care. The choice is a United Kingdom choice, not an EU choice.

We choose to leave, now we leave. To stay on the common EU market there are rules and this has been stated rather clearly. I find it funny we easily jump at the throat of remainers with "leave is leave" and fail to understand in the other hand the simple message from the EU: no access to the single market without the 4 freedoms including the freedom of movement. What in gods name is there not to understand.

Are we becoming so thick and stupid as to think for one second that the EU can possibly accept a situation where a state can pick and choose and benefit more from the single market than those that follows all its rules and obligations? surely no one is stupid enough to think you can have the cake eat it and shag the baker's daughter?

damn people are stupid.

there is going to have to be give and take. Since we are certain that there should be no freedom of movement, then you can be sure there will NOT be a full single market access. PERIOD. It is up to Westminster to negociate what we should have access to as a priority and how much it will cost (yes dont be dumb there will be a cost).

lets pray the communities that most benefited from EU subventions and some industries (like fishing and others) wont be left to rot.

Just saying, many people dont know what they really voted for and have no clue on the implications.

The vast majority of people will hardly notice any difference as it will be swings & roundabouts.

Your opinion does not make it fact and YOUR suggestion above is not only damn rude but i will swing that one right back atcha and strongly suggest that it is in fact YOU that has no clue and that you are just naturally a pessimist/worrier/drama queen/grumpy pants ... delete as appropriate

The UK will still be here for many a year to come Ho Ho Ho

[Allatar]

very good point, except the majority of wales voted to leave, too.

Indeed they did, with a large number of them saying that they wanted out as they 'saw no benefit' from any of the EU subsidies given to the Welsh Assembly. This means they didn't realise just how much EU money was propping up the Welsh farming industry which is now facing an extremely bleak future indeed. David Cameron was asked directly by some employees at a firm in Wales which he visited if UK government would agree to match the amount of money pumped into the economy through the EU rebate: funnily enough he refused to make such a commitment.

The average Brexit voter in Wales didn't see any benefit from EU money due to chronic mismanagement of the country by an incumbent Labour administration but they can't see that or don't want to see it. Bu then we are talking about a country that refuses by and large to vote for any other political party other than Labour because my nan says the Tories are evil / Margaret thatcher stole my school milk / my bampa was a miner / rabble rabble rabble, take your pick.

[Rockyreg]

The majority of Scots want to stay in the EU.

The rest is complex because it comes down to which they want more - the EU or the UK, that's where the referendum comes in.

I agree, but the fact that according to recent polling only 37% of them even want to hold a 2nd referendum does point to the fact its not a huge issue to them does it not?

[schwarzkopf]

I agree, but the fact that according to recent polling only 37% of them even want to hold a 2nd referendum does point to the fact its not a huge issue to them does it not?

It isn't a huge issue ... YET. Because the UK hasn't even decided formally to leave the EU ...

[Bethanie]

For one couldn't really care if Scotland left the UK, it would be so much more beneficial to England if they did and if they did leave the UK they would have to borrow shit tons of money to even attempt to keep the benefits they obtain from England which would probably just lead them begging to come back.

Rather than give Scotland a second referendum on independence, England and Wales should have a referendum to leave the UK themselves. If England and Wales left the UK, this would result in the following situations:

• England and Wales would automatically no longer be part of the EU or any other European institutions, without the need for the UK to invoke article 50.
• The remaining nations of the UK, Scotland and Northern Ireland would still be in the EU.
• England and Wales would be free to immediately negotiate any trade deals that they wished.
• Scotland, as the major remaining nation of the UK, would be able to decide its own future. It would be de facto independence for Scotland.
• England and Wales would still be in currency union with the remaining UK, using the English Pound, enabling free trade (cross border) with the EU that would be very difficult to prevent unless the remaining UK joined the Euro or closed the border.
• EU nationals currently in England would have no right to remain unless a deal was negotiated between the EU and England and Wales.
• English and Welsh nationals currently in the EU would have no right to remain unless a deal was negotiated between the EU and England and Wales or they still held (dual) UK citizenship.
• UK nationals currently in the EU would still be able to remain as before. This may include English and Welsh citizens if they still held UK citizenship.
  

[Deleted]

Arent they a drain on the rest anyway? The Scottish I mean.

Maybe it's even beneficial if they leave the UK?

[Zelk]

can they take the north of england with them? please?

[Rockyreg]

It isn't a huge issue ... YET. Because the UK hasn't even decided formally to leave the EU ...

I don't see it changing for a number of years yet, up to a decade even. Most people would probably like to see what effect on their lives actually leaving the EU has.

It just riles me that the single market is now the be all and end all for Sturgeon, even though it was obviously no biggie to her a couple of years ago. Does she think people are stupid not to see her opportunism.

[dribbles]

Arent they a drain on the rest anyway? The Scottish I mean.

Maybe it's even beneficial if they leave the UK?

If a small English county like Scotland wants to leave the Union it wouldn't be missed, only so many Arbroath Smokies one can eat.

[psyquest]

The vast majority of people will hardly notice any difference as it will be swings & roundabouts.

Your opinion does not make it fact and YOUR suggestion above is not only damn rude but i will swing that one right back atcha and strongly suggest that it is in fact YOU that has no clue and that you are just naturally a pessimist/worrier/drama queen/grumpy pants ... delete as appropriate

The UK will still be here for many a year to come Ho Ho Ho

whether the UK stays together depends on Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Regarding the impact of Brexit, we dont know yet. Going to have to wait for the actual Brexit starting.

The vast majority of people will hardly notice any difference as it will be swings & roundabouts.

You are crazy to think that there will be no impact. There will be , either positive or negative but things are not going to stay as is lol.

/facepalm

arguing on a gaming forum on serious matters with a level 10 warlock

[Zelk]

Arent they a drain on the rest anyway? The Scottish I mean.

Maybe it's even beneficial if they leave the UK?

No it's not a drain. The Scottish are a great bunch of lads