Anybody else thing Kingsbane is underwhelming? (Assasination)

[Deleted]

Yeah, so with 65% Crit on Mutilate you will come off with a chance of,

45,5% to crit with your mainhand -> 3 CPs.
42,25% to crit with both -> 4 CP.
12,25% not to crit at all -> 2 CP.

So you do one mutilate, you get 3 CPs, you dont wanna finish with 3 CPs which is understandable, so you do another Mutilate which might give 4CPs if both hands crit, which is not unlikely with 42,25%. So theoretically you waste 1 CP. The chance that you get just two CPs with one mut is pretty low as you can see. Thats why i wouldnt argue that getting more crit is theoretically not losing any worth but its definitely losing its efficiency. Thats why 44% of crit is not a mystical number, its just a number that makes playing EP builds pretty efficient and flawless , also in consideration of cp management. So again, why would i want to stack more than 44% of crit, if i have pretty good stats and a flawless gameplay and i could improve other stats, that directly buff my dps outcome?

Besides, if you for example have the Insignia, you would rather want to play double mut into finisher, since your muts benefit from your ring. It makes it nearly impossible to play with double mut into finisher efficiently if you have so much crit cause you will always waste CPs. If you look up top-parsing rogues, i doubt you really will find rogues with 50% of crit.

[typezer0]

See this is confusing. Everything I read says stack crit and mastery but when I sim my character is says crit and vers are my best stats. I've tried both and I seem to do more damage with crit and vers. So I'm sticking with that for now.

[Deleted]

See this is confusing. Everything I read says stack crit and mastery but when I sim my character is says crit and vers are my best stats. I've tried both and I seem to do more damage with crit and vers. So I'm sticking with that for now.

What build do you play? Crit / Vers sounds like EP/EXS, if so, it totally makes sense. Your stats depend on the build you play. I play MP/AP for myself, so i stack mastery but also try to hit 40% crit, which is not easy in my gear bracket. I have 37% and it makes it still more than playable since i always play double mut into finisher and dont have EP to focus on. Of course there are times where i wished to have more crit, but i would never try to stack crit and loose mastery for that.

[ymirsson]

Yeah, so with 65% Crit on Mutilate you will come off with a chance of,

45,5% to crit with your mainhand -> 3 CPs.
42,25% to crit with both -> 4 CP.
12,25% not to crit at all -> 2 CP.

So you do one mutilate, you get 3 CPs, you dont wanna finish with 3 CPs which is understandable, so you do another Mutilate which might give 4CPs if both hands crit, which is not unlikely with 42,25%. So theoretically you waste 1 CP. The chance that you get just two CPs with one mut is pretty low as you can see. Thats why i wouldnt argue that getting more crit is theoretically not losing any worth but its definitely losing its efficiency. Thats why 44% of crit is not a mystical number, its just a number that makes playing EP builds pretty efficient and flawless , also in consideration of cp management. So again, why would i want to stack more than 44% of crit, if i have pretty good stats and a flawless gameplay and i could improve other stats, that directly buff my dps outcome?

Besides, if you for example have the Insignia, you would rather want to play double mut into finisher, since your muts benefit from your ring. It makes it nearly impossible to play with double mut into finisher efficiently if you have so much crit cause you will always waste CPs. If you look up top-parsing rogues, i doubt you really will find rogues with 50% of crit.

unlikely? pretty low? what is this, feelcraft 101?

[Deleted]

unlikely? pretty low? what is this, feelcraft 101?

You see the percentage right there and its called math. And yes, 12.25% is pretty low to me.

[ymirsson]

I see the percentage, but at what point does pretty low become mathematically relevant?

[Deleted]

I see the percentage, but at what point does pretty low become mathematically relevant?

Since pretty low is related to 12.25%, it becomes relevant. Btw. what is your point? I am sure you understood what i wrote, so stop acting dumber than you are.

[ymirsson]

Since pretty low is related to 12.25%, it becomes relevant. Btw. what is your point? I am sure you understood what i wrote, so stop acting dumber than you are.

I understood that you tried to explain something with nothing. My point is that your post did not show why 44% is a better number then any other. Because the explanation count in your post was pretty low, i think.

[Deleted]

I understood that you tried to explain something with nothing. My point is that your post did not show why 44% is a better number then any other. Because the explanation count in your post was pretty low, i think.

Aye, well i thought a math genius like you would have understood that with 44% Crit baseline and 6% by traits thus 50% on Mutilate, it would look as the following,

50% chance on mainhand -> 3CP
25% chance on both -> 4CP
25% chance on no crits at all -> 2CP

So if you compare those numbers and you read again what i wrote AND try to understand, then you will realize that i was talking about efficiency and cp management. You almost double your chance on not getting a crit at all whereas the chance of getting two crits is nearly the half. Now assuming that we play two muts into finisher, this will make your gameplay more efficient by not wasting CPs and focussing on others stats when hitting 44% on crit.

And btw. i am not saying DONT top 44% of crit. As long as you dont stack crit over mastery or whatever when hitting 44%, its fine.

But still ymirsson, its not the first time i see you posting bullshit without contributing anything useful. I dont get the point of people like you. I just asked the guy to elaborate on his statement to not stop stacking over 44%. He did and i replied with another statement but what is your role here?

[ymirsson]

Half and double of what? You should at least try to make it a coherent calculation.

[Deleted]

Half and double of what? You should at least try to make it a coherent calculation.

With 65% you have a chance of 12.25% to NOT CRIT AT ALL -> 2 CPs -> SO ITS PRETTY LOW.

With 50% you have a chance of 25% to NOT CRIT AT ALL -> 2CPs -> 2 x 12.25 = 24.5%, -> SO YOU ALMOST DOUBLE YOUR CHANCE OF NOT CRITTING AT ALL. That means with 50% crit on mutilate, you have a chance of 25% to get just 2CPs with one mutilate. With 65% crit on mutilate your chance of getting just 2CPs after one mut is at 12.25%.

Thus with 65% on mutilate and just a chance of 12.25% TO NOT CRIT ALL and get 2 CPs is pretty low why its more likely that you get 3 or 4 CPs with one mutilate since its 45.5% for 3CPs and 42.25% for 4 CPs.

Do you want me to explain it to you in German?

[ymirsson]

With 65% you have a chance of 12.25% to NOT CRIT AT ALL -> 2 CPs -> SO ITS PRETTY LOW.

With 50% you have a chance of 25% to NOT CRIT AT ALL -> 2CPs -> 2 x 12.25 = 24.5%, -> SO YOU ALMOST DOUBLE YOUR CHANCE OF NOT CRITTING AT ALL. That means with 50% crit on mutilate, you have a chance of 25% to get just 2CPs with one mutilate. With 65% crit on mutilate your chance of getting just 2CPs after one mut is at 12.25%.

Thus with 65% on mutilate and just a chance of 12.25% TO NOT CRIT ALL and get 2 CPs is pretty low why its more likely that you get 3 or 4 CPs with one mutilate since its 45.5% for 3CPs and 42.25% for 4 CPs.

Do you want me to explain it to you in German?

Ja bitte. /10char

So where is the calculation that tells me that it is better to have 44% crit instead of 84%?

[Deleted]

Ja bitte. /10char

So where is the calculation that tells me that it is better to have 44% crit instead of 84%?

There's no calculation. I could just provide you the numbers for what it would look like if if you had 84% on mutilate, but I won't, since it doesn't make sense at all. Having 84% on mutilate means that you ignore important secondary stats to stack Crit which will give you a very high possibility to get 4 CPs after each Mutilate you dump and so wasting many CPs by using a second mut.

Besides, the reasoning behind it is efficiency and cp management. And I explained it.

[ymirsson]

There we have it again. "A high possibility"
Besides, who says it's better to increase other secondaries then getting a garantueed 4 cp Mutilate? Because efficiency is not necessarily more important then effectiveness.

[Deleted]

There we have it again. "A high possibility"
Besides, who says it's better to increase other secondaries then getting a garantueed 4 cp Mutilate? Because efficiency is not necessarily more important then effectiveness.

Well, to be precise, it's 73.96%. And your chance to not crit at all is 1.96%.I am out now since you don't seem to have a clue of what you are talking about and i am sure you don't play your rogue actively.

[ymirsson]

Well, to be precise, it's 73.96%. And your chance to not crit at all is 1.96%.I am out now since you don't seem to have a clue of what you are talking about and i am sure you don't play your rogue actively.

The chance of you understanding my question seems prettty low, i feel.

[Deleted]

The chance of you understanding my question seems prettty low, i feel.

Dawg, your question is just stupid af. You rather push your secondary stat like mastery cause for example many of your talents like ap, kb, BoT, mp and whatever benefit from it whereas 84% crit on mutilate grants you a chance of 73.96% to get 4 CPs after each mut. Just using one mut with the intention to maximize your ep uptime to nearly 100% won't make it up. And you would cap energy as well when it again and again comes to efficiency. Wow man, just wow.

Und nun hör auf mich zu trollen, so blöd kannst du nicht sein

[ymirsson]

Wow man, just wow. You can list numbers without context. Wow.

[Deleted]

This is something we cannot help him. He "feels" bad if he is generating cps over the cap. Feelings are complex. He has a better feeling to decrease his overall dps output to prevent cp generation over the cap. Man, i dont wanna know what will happen if he get one cp to much.

[Deleted]

This is something we cannot help him. He "feels" bad if he is generating cps over the cap. Feelings are complex. He has a better feeling to decrease his overall dps output to prevent cp generation over the cap. Man, i dont wanna know what will happen if he get one cp to much.

Decreasing overall dps output by stacking crit over other stats? I feel? I showed you numbers, its not a feeling, its there, in black and white. Depending on the length of an Encounter, using two muts into finisher would surely get you more THAN just 1CP. Both of you are just talking shit without any arguments. If you have so much crit and you play 1 mut into finisher with nearly 100% on EP, then i really would appreciate, if you show me your warcraftlogs. I guess you are a top-parsing rogue, thats for sure.

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Nevermind, i found your logs myself. Kinda fun to see you are not even having 42% crit yourself. Also fun to see that you barely waste CPs since you seem to play pretty consistent on CP management which i was trying to explain. Well, it does make sense if you just play ~ 42% crit. But nice logic argueing about something that you obviously dont support yourself.

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After a look throughout your logs which are not bad i might also give you a tip, pay more attention on your garrote uptimes