Trial of Valor nerf this week

[Eapoe]

You... You couldn't do mythics without killing archi heroic <.<

I believe there was a workaround to have a guildie get carried thru it and make them raid lead to access mythic raiding.

[Raiju]

this has almost literary nothing to do with that what i am adressed. First off you cant debunk that its not even the hardest one and then bring the argument that you overgeared it and thets the "ONLY" reason for its kill time, then complain the gear that it dropped was not good so a nerf is mandotry...what? And even if i let pass that logic chain, why dont buff the gear a little bit instead nerfing the whole raid twice?

They did buff the gear a little bit but apparently you weren't even aware of that. Maybe you should be more informed before trying to have this argument.

To compare ToV fairly you have to compare it to all other raids that you enter overgeared - which to be frank are pretty easy. I never stated a nerf is mandatory on a personal level, but from a developers point of view 0.1% of players seeing the content that likely took them weeks of work is a massive failure of design. ToV prior to any nerfs is a failure of design, because straight up not enough players would run it.

So yes - as far as any logic is concerned it is MANDATORY to nerf. It's not mandatory for me on a personal level but I'm not a 12 year old who expects this game to cater to me and me alone.

If ToV launched with everyone having pre-raid release gear (basically 850 capped in most slots) as 'bosses 8/9/10' we wouldn't see a mythic helya kill for a good month, realistically. It's extremely hard to even cheese the dps requirements with the reduced time to get legendaries, second slot, and notably 35th trait on artifact on classes that are needed when you're 3 weeks into the expansion.

That first legit kill would most certainly use the add stacking from breath positioning we didn't see until legit kill no. 4 or w/e, and possibly other things that may be going around that I'm not aware of - ignoring the obvious exploit.

[Osmeric]

so they pruned the classes to make encounters harder

That's not why they pruned classes.

[KaPe]

They shouldnt nerf odyn and just remove p1. P1 does absoluletly nothing, doesn't even hurt my mana as a healer.

So... if it does nothing, how would it help?

Phase one shouldn't be there in the first place, since it drags this encounter to mind numbing levels. However, they want an actual nerf and while reducing the duration would help, you'd still have to deal with overwhelming raid damage, Odyn's enormous health pool, dps check, numerous movement mechanics and soft enrage in phase 3. Even after this nerf it will be harder than anything in EN by a wide margin, but this time the difficulty will be somewhat more relatable to his drops.

because then it blows the already heavily blown out gear ilvls even more

Not to mention that Mythic Helya drops are already item level capped, while Odyn and Guarm are only 5ilvl below that. Not much room to buff the gear - and by the time the cap gets removed, Nighthold will make the place irrelevant.

I believe there was a workaround to have a guildie get carried thru it and make them raid lead to access mythic raiding.

Mythic HFC was available without Heroic Archimonde and you didn't need any tricks. In fact, getting 2-3 Mythic kills before him was fairly common - at least until ilvl upgrades.

The actual "trick" had to do with skipping Gorefiend by having someone open a portal to the Upper Citadel and offering access to three easy bosses.

[WhatIsLegion]

I think the Odyn and Guarm nerfs were totally unjustified.

They are complete jokes now.

[Osmeric]

I think the Odyn and Guarm nerfs were totally unjustified.

They are complete jokes now.

What those nerfs mean is that completion metrics for those bosses are way below target.

[dnicks17]

I think the Odyn and Guarm nerfs were totally unjustified.

They are complete jokes now.

The Odyn nerf is just stupidly over the top when comparing pre-nerf and post-nerf mythic.

P2 is almost as mindless as P1 now.

Hymdall/Hyrja die so fast that you'll end up spending the majority of the time on your CDs just running between them and Odyn.

[Trapmastery]

Removed that restriction in WoD.

Lawyered....

[Fynzie]

Funny to see someone call it a "design failure" when they can't stomp it with 15 ilvl above the intended ilvl to kill the boss. normal and hc were probably a bit overtunned (tho it was clearly stated that ToV was for people FARMING EN in the respective difficulty) but mythic was probably the best tuned raid we had since T11.

[Deleted]

There's plenty of six hour mythic raiding guilds. The only thing stopping you is that you don't have 20 people and that's unfortunate but not easy to fix because flex mode in mythic would be pretty terrible.

Not to worry though, NH will be out in a few weeks and I'm pretty sure Gul'dan will pose a decent challenge on heroic as well :P

We're a 4/7M and 3/3 HC guild raiding 6h / week. We've had some real roster struggles and we all know we could have been 7/7 and at least 1-2/3 mythic if we just had people turn up to raids or if recrutiting was a bit easier. But more than half our raids we can't even do mythic sadly.

We're all hoping that Nighthold will be extremely challenging just so we can become a heroic guild instead of trying to raid mythic :P Have a feeling it won't be hard enough though.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

It is really sad that they nerfed it so much, I was just progressing Mythic Odyn with my guild and the fight was awesome. Now it is gonna easy boring boss. If they will continue with this trend of nerfing Mythic so everyone and his grandmother can clear it, I have no doubt a lot of people will cease to raid. So fucking annoying.

[Finbezz]

It is really sad that they nerfed it so much, I was just progressing Mythic Odyn with my guild and the fight was awesome. Now it is gonna easy boring boss. If they will continue with this trend of nerfing Mythic so everyone and his grandmother can clear it, I have no doubt a lot of people will cease to raid. So fucking annoying.

lol. even with the nerfs, trials bosses are still easily harder than 6 of 7 bosses in EN.(Odyn might be easier than ilgynoth now idk)

[Deleted]

lol. even with the nerfs, trials bosses are still easily harder than 6 of 7 bosses in EN.(Odyn might be easier than ilgynoth now idk)

Odyn is closer to dragons difficulty than ilygnoth

[WhatIsLegion]

What those nerfs mean is that completion metrics for those bosses are way below target.

No it means the community got spoiled by a raid that was stupidly undertuned and when they ran into a road block, instead of getting better they cried for nerfs. This is why this game can never have content that is hard unless you're top 100 before the encounters get gutted. The raiding population will never get better when anything deemed slightly difficult is nerfed.

The Odyn nerf is just stupidly over the top when comparing pre-nerf and post-nerf mythic.

P2 is almost as mindless as P1 now.

Hymdall/Hyrja die so fast that you'll end up spending the majority of the time on your CDs just running between them and Odyn.

What was once a fun fight has turned mindless guilds that shouldn't have killed this boss are now getting free kills because of it. Watched a guild that spent the last two weeks never getting to phase three (because their raiders keep dying to mechanics and their dps is sub par) kill this boss within 15 pulls with these nerfs. Truly pathetic from Blizzard.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

lol. even with the nerfs, trials bosses are still easily harder than 6 of 7 bosses in EN.(Odyn might be easier than ilgynoth now idk)

Well first I must say I liked EN bosses. Except maybe for Xavius a bit of lackluster. But they were kind of easy, if Odyn is now easier then Ilgynoth, I am sure we can stomp him down in 2-3 attempts. Which is kind of lame compared to difficulty it used to have.

[Rumex]

Well normal feels like LFR now, and heroic feels like normal now.

[Jtbrig7390]

It is really sad that they nerfed it so much, I was just progressing Mythic Odyn with my guild and the fight was awesome. Now it is gonna easy boring boss. If they will continue with this trend of nerfing Mythic so everyone and his grandmother can clear it, I have no doubt a lot of people will cease to raid. So fucking annoying.

You must be new to Wow and the bosses will still be hard. If u was wiping at 25% or less it mite give u a push but any higher and good chance u will still wipe unless you improve ur group.

[Osmeric]

No it means the community got spoiled by a raid that was stupidly undertuned and when they ran into a road block, instead of getting better they cried for nerfs.

This sort of bullshit keeps coming up. No, the community doesn't get "spoiled". It's a ridiculous hardcore fantasy that somehow, if Blizzard hadn't screwed up, the community would accept and relish difficult content. There has never been ANY evidence that this is the case.

GC himself pointed out that you are wrong. Look at my sig.

- - - Updated - - -

time for 5th raid difficulty BOIS blizzard master game designer at work

Time to throw the hardcore raiders under the bus. Way WAY past time actually.

[Deleted]

It's getting nerfed because no one will set foot in ToV when Nighthold comes out, not because people QQ.

[Osmeric]

Thats a insta gratifacted spoiled one right there

Nope. This isn't about me. I'm saying Blizzard would have done objectively better if they had abandoned their focus on pleasing the hardcore raiders.

Hardcore raiding is a cancer. It drives content consumption at top speed. It creates a game that destroys the ego payoff for most other players. It stratifies the player population and dismembers broad social connections.

also gc also pointed out that he is not working at blizzard the expansion where he was in charge undeperformed all

So, when he makes a statement that gives us a peek at what their internal stats were saying, you think a lame ad hominem argument allows you to dismiss that evidence (realizing that you are saying he's deliberately lying, as they would know one way or the other)?