Emerald nightmare and trial of valor feel like fillers

[Adoxe]

That's because they are.

[Role Unknown]

Can't really speak for the effects of EN when it comes to combating the Legion. It did feel like it's own side story but hey we got Cenarius and Malfurion back on our side so that's cool.

ToV = Odyn is now free and will unleash his valajar to help with the Legion. Probably gonna fuck some shit up himself. After he's done doing whatever it is he's doing in Ulduar.

Theres been alot of throwback to Ulduar.....makes me think we will see a Karazhan type dungeon or a mini-raid there in the future.

[Deleted]

They offer literally nothing to the story especially tov is a pure filler , wtf odyn? norse mythology has been abused to hell , nighthold feels like the first main story raid , it looks very interesting lore wise , i cant wait for it..

Ok. In EN we finally purify the Nightmare, free the ancients that where corrupted and you call this a filler? In ToV we liberate Odin from the Halls of Valor, one of the keepers with the power of the Titans and one of the most powerful entities in Azeroth and this is too a filler in lore? So if we dont kill Azshara, N'zoth, Sargeras or the Void Lords a raid if filler? Ok...

[Nakotsu]

They offer literally nothing to the story especially tov is a pure filler , wtf odyn? norse mythology has been abused to hell , nighthold feels like the first main story raid , it looks very interesting lore wise , i cant wait for it..

Did molten core add to the story back in did BWL Did onxyia lair??? No they are raids something to spend your time in and gear up. Why does everything gotta add a story.

[kary]

Ok. In EN we finally purify the Nightmare, free the ancients that where corrupted and you call this a filler? In ToV we liberate Odin from the Halls of Valor, one of the keepers with the power of the Titans and one of the most powerful entities in Azeroth and this is too a filler in lore? So if we dont kill Azshara, N'zoth, Sargeras or the Void Lords a raid if filler? Ok...

I mean, tbh the nightmare is one of those nightelf only issues. The whole overarching plot of val'sharah is something, though relevant to the grand scheme of things is quite literally a side story.

[Deleted]

I mean, tbh the nightmare is one of those nightelf only issues. The whole overarching plot of val'sharah is something, though relevant to the grand scheme of things is quite literally a side story.

You go read the lore and when you understand it you can return and we can have a healthy discusion.

[TheFirstOnes]

Here's the definition of "Filler" for you: Something to just fill in the spaces between the main story, coming from non-cannon things from EPS, or games, to random episodes that make cross-overs with another series. However, either way, they don't progress through the story.

So, because EN and ToV finish parts of the main story arc in legion, it's considered cannon. Also, they're all apart of the same tier, I don't get what's so hard to understand from that. I see people complain about how EN/ToV are separate raid tiers to nighthold, when in reality, they're apart of the same damn tier. ToV Is there to help with bordom, while giving people a reason to forget about one of WoDs fuck ups, which was finishing story-arcs.

Legion is getting 3 raid tiers, and likely 3 patches.

Tier 1: EN First comes out, then ToV, and lastly Night-Hold!

Tier 2: We go to the ToS, And defeat the avatar of sargeras, as well as Kil'jaeden.

Tier 3: We go to Argus, help the army of light there, assault the legion's main base, and PRESUMABLY defeat Either Sargeras (I see it, but others don't), or Archimonde/KJ (That'd bore me though :/)

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That's because they are.

No they're not? Filler doesn't take place during the actually story-line, meaning they can't progress different characters through the story. EN and TOV are story-arcs, that fit/complete their zone's story-lines. What's so hard to understand from that?

[melodramocracy]

TIL that raids aren't actually raids unless they drop tier gear, or meet some other nebulous community standard.

[kary]

You go read the lore and when you understand it you can return and we can have a healthy discusion.

I've read the chronicles books, the nightmare/emerald dream, although it is important, it's really, really only nightelf lore, lol. What happens in Val'sharah has no impact on the fight against the legion, which is what this expansion is about.

(yes, nightelf lore is grossly oversimplifying it, but you know what I mean. Apart from the tear of elune debacle, valsharah is completely unrelated to the main storyline in basically every aspect.)

[normiegonnanorm]

I like Emerald Nightmare because it gives me feels.
Nighthold and Suramar don't do that.

[anaxie]

Neither are filler

Emerald Nightmare is the last thread pulled before the black Empire of N'zoth washes across Azeroth soon.

Trial of Valor is to free Odyn. The Last missing watcher on Azeroth. The orignal leader of the Watchers. And the one who originally created the Val'kyr.

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Theres been alot of throwback to Ulduar.....makes me think we will see a Karazhan type dungeon or a mini-raid there in the future.

Maybe because Halls of Valor WAS a part of Ulduar.

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They feel like filler, but actually both may be more important for next expansion. I think that Odyn is "The lord of ravens" that "will turn the key" - and after ToV he want go to Ulduar. He may unleash some Old God stuff there while we will be on Argus.

The Lord of Ravens is Khadgar

Turning the Key is returning Illidans soul to his body. The body Gul'dan was pouring Sargeras's power into.

Do you guys not understand yet why Sargeras is likely the last boss of Legion and fightable in the ARgus tier?

A good portion of his power is in Illidan after Nighthold.

WOW what what a perfect time to turn Sargeras into a Void Lord Dark Titan puppet to push the story into a Black Empire N'zoth Nightmare story arc and keep Sargeras as the FINAL game series villan when he becomes the Dark Titan and Avatar of the Void Lords.

Also our artifacts will dissappear with good reason?

We know illidans goal is to Destroy Argus.

How do you destroy a planet? Open thousands of Portals have it collapse on itself.

Who did this before? Ner'zhul with... ARTIFACTS Book of Medivh, Skull of Gul'Dan, Jeweled Scepter of Sargeras, Eye of Dalaran.

Our Artifacts power will be used by Illidan for a mega spell to end the Legion.


Everything is so obvious it hurts.

[TheWindWalker]

It's honestly a good source of amusement reading how many people think the Valarjar would even be more than a bad afternoon in the Legion's invasion schedule. A relatively small army of metal vikings that the player could defeat single-handedly if they stood spaced in a field with a quest marker nearby.

[Darsey]

Actually, for the first time in ages, it felt like there was a reason to go to where we are going, the story leads to that rather the we know that there is a raid that somehow connected to the lore but we never given reason to go there in the main story.
Legion did overall a great job explaining why we are going to where we are going and how it drives the story.

[Armourboy]

I've read the chronicles books, the nightmare/emerald dream, although it is important, it's really, really only nightelf lore, lol. What happens in Val'sharah has no impact on the fight against the legion, which is what this expansion is about.

(yes, nightelf lore is grossly oversimplifying it, but you know what I mean. Apart from the tear of elune debacle, valsharah is completely unrelated to the main storyline in basically every aspect.)

Then you missed the main book about it, with Stormrage, which had Varian and other races as major players in the fight against the Nightmare.

Emerald Nightmare completes a story line that goes all the way back to the War of the Ancients. It also concludes one of the longest stories in WoW which is seen in the morrow grain story line you used to turn in during Vanilla for rep.

If you have payed attention to the lore and the stories over the years, it is anything but filler. It was there in vanilla, continued with Cata and is finally ended in Legion.

It also is the basic story of strategy. You can not fight a war on two fronts, and the Nightmare had to be dealt with quickly before we ended up fighting them and the Legion

ToV not only concludes Stormheim but also goes all the way back to the tuskar in Wrath. It as well is a long running story that helps tie up loose ends from Ulduar, and from Wrath in general.

ToV feels like filler because it's 3 bosses, story wise though neither are.

[Deleted]

They offer literally nothing to the story especially tov is a pure filler , wtf odyn? norse mythology has been abused to hell , nighthold feels like the first main story raid , it looks very interesting lore wise , i cant wait for it..

Yes. Indeed. Welcome to World of Warcraft.

[kary]

Then you missed the main book about it, with Stormrage, which had Varian and other races as major players in the fight against the Nightmare.

Emerald Nightmare completes a story line that goes all the way back to the War of the Ancients. It also concludes one of the longest stories in WoW which is seen in the morrow grain story line you used to turn in during Vanilla for rep.

If you have payed attention to the lore and the stories over the years, it is anything but filler. It was there in vanilla, continued with Cata and is finally ended in Legion.

It also is the basic story of strategy. You can not fight a war on two fronts, and the Nightmare had to be dealt with quickly before we ended up fighting them and the Legion

ToV not only concludes Stormheim but also goes all the way back to the tuskar in Wrath. It as well is a long running story that helps tie up loose ends from Ulduar, and from Wrath in general.

ToV feels like filler because it's 3 bosses, story wise though neither are.

Well, the point of chronicle was to consolidate all the lore so, everything that exists before chronicle is sorta non-canon, or at least that's how I understood it. Which is why I didn't take the previous "info" or story into consideration.
Your point stands, though.

[Miztickow]

They offer literally nothing to the story especially tov is a pure filler , wtf odyn? norse mythology has been abused to hell , nighthold feels like the first main story raid , it looks very interesting lore wise , i cant wait for it..

In EN, we killed the first Satyr (who also happens to have been Queen Azshara's best friend when they were Elves) and beat back the Nightmare.
In ToV, we killed an important titan watcher, freeing troops to fight the Legion and old gods, and Odyn said he is going to visit Ulduar next.

Those seem pretty important to me.

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Then you missed the main book about it, with Stormrage, which had Varian and other races as major players in the fight against the Nightmare.

Emerald Nightmare completes a story line that goes all the way back to the War of the Ancients. It also concludes one of the longest stories in WoW which is seen in the morrow grain story line you used to turn in during Vanilla for rep.

If you have payed attention to the lore and the stories over the years, it is anything but filler. It was there in vanilla, continued with Cata and is finally ended in Legion.

It also is the basic story of strategy. You can not fight a war on two fronts, and the Nightmare had to be dealt with quickly before we ended up fighting them and the Legion

ToV not only concludes Stormheim but also goes all the way back to the tuskar in Wrath. It as well is a long running story that helps tie up loose ends from Ulduar, and from Wrath in general.

ToV feels like filler because it's 3 bosses, story wise though neither are.

I'm not convinced the Nightmare is 100% gone. After you teleport at the end, there's a tree on the other side of the lake that has a tiny sapling inside covered in shadow magic (I assume it's the source of the Nightmare). Why we aren't stomping all over that little flower, I have no idea (unless it's some Mythic-only BS that I haven't seen).

[Dracullus]

The Lord of Ravens is Khadgar

Turning the Key is returning Illidans soul to his body. The body Gul'dan was pouring Sargeras's power into.

Do you guys not understand yet why Sargeras is likely the last boss of Legion and fightable in the ARgus tier?

A good portion of his power is in Illidan after Nighthold.

WOW what what a perfect time to turn Sargeras into a Void Lord Dark Titan puppet to push the story into a Black Empire N'zoth Nightmare story arc and keep Sargeras as the FINAL game series villan when he becomes the Dark Titan and Avatar of the Void Lords.

Also our artifacts will dissappear with good reason?

We know illidans goal is to Destroy Argus.

How do you destroy a planet? Open thousands of Portals have it collapse on itself.

Who did this before? Ner'zhul with... ARTIFACTS Book of Medivh, Skull of Gul'Dan, Jeweled Scepter of Sargeras, Eye of Dalaran.

Our Artifacts power will be used by Illidan for a mega spell to end the Legion.


Everything is so obvious it hurts.

Yeah, it may be Khadgar, I was looking on this whispers more from "it's for next expansion" angle. Rest of whispers really feel like this.

And yeah, many things are really obvious. I read Illidan book right before they confirmed that Tal'Dranath was replaced with something cooler and my first thought was: "We will get Argus instead of Tomb as a last tier". And after Blizzcon it's almost confirmed that Sargeras will be end boss. If this wasn't the case, Avatar would be final boss for Tomb and Kil'jaden for Argus - he would fit there really well.

Artifacts will likely be involved and destroyed during fight, we don't need them to blow a planet, Illidan blow Nathreza without that, but yeah fight may end like this.
But I don't think Sargeras will become Dark Titan, it's too soon. He will be destroyed or we will clean his corruption (imagine butthurt here if he would got redemption arc ;P). Likely destroyed, I think that Azeroth will be corrupted much later in the story and we will save her last minute.

[Armourboy]

Well, the point of chronicle was to consolidate all the lore so, everything that exists before chronicle is sorta non-canon, or at least that's how I understood it. Which is why I didn't take the previous "info" or story into consideration.
Your point stands, though.

They may not have included it because the book is fairly recent and is ok.

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In EN, we killed the first Satyr (who also happens to have been Queen Azshara's best friend when they were Elves) and beat back the Nightmare.
In ToV, we killed an important titan watcher, freeing troops to fight the Legion and old gods, and Odyn said he is going to visit Ulduar next.

Those seem pretty important to me.

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I'm not convinced the Nightmare is 100% gone. After you teleport at the end, there's a tree on the other side of the lake that has a tiny sapling inside covered in shadow magic (I assume it's the source of the Nightmare). Why we aren't stomping all over that little flower, I have no idea (unless it's some Mythic-only BS that I haven't seen).

Haven't paid attention but I will look that next time I go in. The source may not be destroyed but the guy more or less controlling and molding it is. They may have also left that open for other plot points later on ( much like the LK) but I have a feeling that for WoW the Nightmare is done.

[MrExcelion]

They conclude their respective zones, which offers something to the story.

That's a good way to look at it imo. I will say I feel rather disconnected to ToV since it feels like Halls of Valor and Maw of Souls all over again, and the terrain was taken directly from the outside world

Idk how many times Odyn has said you're worthy this xpac but it's been a lot (completing dungeon, balance of power, raid, the chosen, etc)