The gate to get into PvP is now higher than ever in the post Wotlk days

[rda]

except they did before, and it was called wearing tons of gear, way higher then your opponent, and yes, PVE has allways had gear that was useful in pvp, it wasent the best gear, but it was pretty fucking good gear

yes but that cap dident matter, and stil lwas very unbalanced

As I said you don't know jack shit, and, worse, you persist in not knowing jack shit, and you won't even Google and won't listen.

It was IMPOSSIBLE to outgear your opponents due to ilvl cap, that ilvl cap was completely within everyone's grasp.

It was POINTLESS to do PVE to PVP, PVE items were WORSE than conquest items in PVP.

The measure of "still very unbalanced" is in the numbers - the numbers are WORSE for Legion than for previous expansions. Several times worse.

I know your reply already - you are going to ignore everything again, won't search, won't Google, won't ask, you will just go on and state one more time your stupid "you had to do PVE before bla bla bla legendaries bla bla bla artifact is easy".

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Did you start playing in Dec 2015?

[FelPlague]

As I said you don't know jack shit, and, worse, you persist in not knowing jack shit, and you won't even Google and won't listen.

It was IMPOSSIBLE to outgear your opponents due to ilvl cap, that ilvl cap was completely within everyone's grasp.

It was POINTLESS to do PVE to PVP, PVE items were WORSE than conquest items in PVP.

The measure of "still very unbalanced" is in the numbers - the numbers are WORSE for Legion than for previous expansions. Several times worse.

I know your reply already - you are going to ignore everything again, won't search, won't Google, won't ask, you will just go on and state one more time your stupid "you had to do PVE before bla bla bla legendaries bla bla bla artifact is easy".

- - - Updated - - -

Did you start playing in Dec 2015?

"The season's current conquest point PvP rewards are exempt from the cap."

[rda]

"The season's current conquest point PvP rewards are exempt from the cap."

*That's why* it was pointless to do PVE to PVP, PVE items were worse than conquest items in PVP.

Jesus.

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I think it is clear what's going on. You didn't know how it worked before, it is only now that you slowly wake up to all that. You didn't even know what to make of the phrase above, in your opinion it looked like a counter-argument so you posted it. But it was not a counter-argument, in fact it was *exactly* what I said to you.

Stop making posts on PVP. Learn first, talk second.

[Resentless]

They absolutely do because there is no ilvl cap, they give you stats through ilvl. Plus there is artifact which, yes, works in PVP, has a ton of power, yet it is easier and faster to grind for in PVE.

There's no comparison on "do I have to do PVE to get a leg up in PVP" between Legion and prior expansions - you absolutely didn't have to do PVE for PVP in MoP/WoD (almost didn't have to do in Cata), and you nearly absolutely have to do PVE for PVP in Legion.

Firstly thank you for understand and replying to my posts in a civilised way. I didn't know there was such history behind asking for the actual numbers here, I only came back to mmo champ upon starting Legion and only showed interest in this topic because I was so pleased with how theyd handled pvp this expac that I was wondering what was wrong. Only numbers I'd like to ask for are what was the difference between the typical fresh 100 and a full conquest character in WoD, and between a fresh 100 and honor geared character, and finally between honor and conquest, but I think I already have the numbers for that one. I can figure out the legion numbers myself and they dont seem so bad.

Secondly, I agree with pretty much everything youve said, just that you CAN gear entirely through PvP and have it be relevant in pve as well, not something you could do before (and by relevant I mean you can get full 880 gear eventually) it just sucks that its so slow and RNG based. If you could target pieces of gear would that solve this problem? or would the gap still be too large? What if they increased artifact power gains in pvp? (I thought it was pretty good every 2 honor levels, pvp WQ's and the small amounts you get from first wins and subsequent games). Everyone right now, PVP or PVE has an issue with artifact power and having to reach certain traits to feel "viable" but considering how small the dps or hps gain is per trait its not a big difference. Maybe the stamina gain in pvp is, true, but its still very small amounts unless you are with a fresh weapon (which you wont have at 110).

Finally, I'm pretty sure in the week or so it took to get the current honor talents, thats about as long as it took to get a full set of honor gear in WoD. Maybe not in the last season but i didn't play that one so idk.

[rda]

Firstly thank you for understand and replying to my posts in a civilised way. I didn't know there was such history behind asking for the actual numbers here, I only came back to mmo champ upon starting Legion and only showed interest in this topic because I was so pleased with how theyd handled pvp this expac that I was wondering what was wrong. Only numbers I'd like to ask for are what was the difference between the typical fresh 100 and a full conquest character in WoD, and between a fresh 100 and honor geared character, and finally between honor and conquest, but I think I already have the numbers for that one. I can figure out the legion numbers myself and they dont seem so bad.

Quest greens were scaling up as well, but the ilvl range was fairly big and so the difference was fairly big - topping at around 45% in the extreme case (all quest greens vs all conquest). Typical difference between quest greens and honor: ilvl 650 to ilvl 675 - that's a lot, about 26%. Typical difference between honor and conquest: ilvl 675 to ilvl 690 - that's about 15%, I took the season with the largest difference, other seasons were on the level of 9.5%. Difference between quest greens and conquest is, unsurprisingly, about 45%.

The point is this: comparing to quest greens serves no useful purpose. You graduated out of them very quickly. WoD had intermediate-level aspirant's gear, which would be in the example above scale to ilvl 660 - shaving half the distance to honor. Both aspirant's and honor gear was raining from the sky, it is no exaggeration to say that you could get full aspirant's / honor in a matter of two 2-hour evenings and get full honor with like two more evenings - and that's conservative. And when you were going into a BG, your opponents were not full conquest - even the best people were only getting their weapon and 4p in the end of the first month, that's about half-way through. And if we aren't talking about the first month, it all gets much better for the guy just starting out because of conquest catch-up - you were getting 3-4 pieces of conquest right in the first evening, and your rating didn't matter one bit because you were always landing at a place with 50/50 winrate.

And the kicker: if getting from quest greens to honor-level was so daunting (no matter that it takes several evenings), there was a completely trivial solution - just scale quest greens to the level of honor gear right out the bat. Takes two seconds to implement, delivers all the goodies Legion's system can ever hope to deliver to the players, alienates nobody. Win-win-win-win.

(And I am not even talking that the difference between a noob and a geared guy in Legion is not just, say, 7% from gear, it's also 15% from artifact and you don't start competing at all (it's like 30% or more, hard to measure, but very significant) before you get PVP talents. So, is there any improvement at all? I don't know...)

[Kagthul]

Quest greens were scaling up as well, but the ilvl range was fairly big and so the difference was fairly big - topping at around 45% in the extreme case (all quest greens vs all conquest). Typical difference between quest greens and honor: ilvl 650 to ilvl 675 - that's a lot, about 26%. Typical difference between honor and conquest: ilvl 675 to ilvl 690 - that's about 15%, I took the season with the largest difference, other seasons were on the level of 9.5%. Difference between quest greens and conquest is, unsurprisingly, about 45%.

The point is this: comparing to quest greens serves no useful purpose. You graduated out of them very quickly. WoD had intermediate-level aspirant's gear, which would be in the example above scale to ilvl 660 - shaving half the distance to honor. Both aspirant's and honor gear was raining from the sky, it is no exaggeration to say that you could get full aspirant's / honor in a matter of two 2-hour evenings and get full honor with like two more evenings - and that's conservative. And when you were going into a BG, your opponents were not full conquest - even the best people were only getting their weapon and 4p in the end of the first month, that's about half-way through. And if we aren't talking about the first month, it all gets much better for the guy just starting out because of conquest catch-up - you were getting 3-4 pieces of conquest right in the first evening, and your rating didn't matter one bit because you were always landing at a place with 50/50 winrate.

And the kicker: if getting from quest greens to honor-level was so daunting (no matter that it takes several evenings), there was a completely trivial solution - just scale quest greens to the level of honor gear right out the bat. Takes two seconds to implement, delivers all the goodies Legion's system can ever hope to deliver to the players, alienates nobody. Win-win-win-win.

(And I am not even talking that the difference between a noob and a geared guy in Legion is not just, say, 7% from gear, it's also 15% from artifact and you don't start competing at all (it's like 30% or more, hard to measure, but very significant) before you get PVP talents. So, is there any improvement at all? I don't know...)

Also keep in mind that you could, after the first season, have almost an entire set of the Honor gearing waiting for you before you even PvPed with the Gladiator's Sanctum.

in WoD season 2 my two mains (Warlock and Resto Druid at the time) i farmed work orders for the Sanctum ("farmed" is really the wrong word - they just cost Garrison resources which at that point were falling from the sky). One trip to Ashran and even if you were losing, youd end up with thousands of bones.

Patch day hit, i completed about ~50 work oders at the Sanctum, got all but 5 pieces of full up Honor gear (and Aspirants for the rest), and enough Honor to buy the missing pieces. 3 of them even warforged. And enough CQ to buy a ring on each toon.

And then if that didn't work for you - you could literally gear within hours in even a losing Ashran. Just ride around and pick up fragments. Done. Dont even have to fight people if you're aware of your surroundings. If you get lucky and get into a winning Ashran? Even better, youll have another 2-4 pieces of Conquest gear.

In WoD season 3, i geared my Paladin (that i leveled because i was bored and had nothiong to do, just for giggles) in about 4 hours. Hit up an Ashran, horde was losing, so i just rode around the island. Full honor gear before i left. If i'd stayed, id probably have also gotten at least two pieces of Conquest gear, because Horde was starting to turn it around, but i really didnt need to.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

1) Gear. Yes, gear. It still matters, a lot. Too bad gearing is pretty slow and the shittiest part is that you can't really do this via pvp now.

That's hilarious. You really think that, don't you? (Hint: Every time you win a match, you get a piece of gear equivalent to what you could get from a world quest, which is the next best way to get gear as a new level 110 character. And even if you lose, you stand a good chance of getting a piece, too, especially from the larger battlegrounds like Alterac Valley.)

And no, it doesn't matter nearly as much as you claim. Just saying "it still matters, herp a derp!" doesn't make it so. I have a PVP alt at the moment that I only got to 110 about two weeks ago. His item level is already 868 and he hasn't stepped foot inside a raid (including LFR) OR done any mythic content; just world quests, PVP, and whatever dungeons he had quests for while leveling up (none of which, if I recall, actually gave him an upgrade anyway).

Edit: Oh, and he actually got a legendary from one of his first PVP matches, too.

2) Artifact power.

Something else that gets thrown at you from PVP, especially when winning a match *or* when moving up an honor rank (which gives you a 500 point base token every time).

3) Pvp talents.

Which take no time at all to get, particularly if your team wins on a regular basis.

[Caolela]

yes, but back before legion, you wouldent be even able to get 1 cast off before you died if they were in full mythic/elite gear and you were in questing greens...

That's splitting hairs but more so - is simply ridiculous. Anyone who enters instanced PvP in quest greens has to be an idiot, lazy as hell, or an utter noob to MMOs or gaming. They deserve to sit in the GY all match long until they get it figured out. "Quest greens vs. top gear" for whatever xpac is completely asinine and is generally not what anyone should be concerned with.

Blizz knows that there is still an army of non-thinking, road-fighting mongoloids that will slurp up any Kool-Aid that Blizz doles out -- without further investigating it for validity. Because it's easier.

[Kagthul]

That's hilarious. You really think that, don't you? (Hint: Every time you win a match, you get a piece of gear equivalent to what you could get from a world quest, which is the next best way to get gear as a new level 110 character. And even if you lose, you stand a good chance of getting a piece, too, especially from the larger battlegrounds like Alterac Valley.)

You also stand a colossally good chance of not getting a piece at all for a loss (no one in the US Horde ever plays AV - its an automatic loss), and getting the same piece of gear you dont need over and over again, despite so-called "protection" from this. RNG sucks.

And no, it doesn't matter nearly as much as you claim. Just saying "it still matters, herp a derp!" doesn't make it so.

YOu're right! The MATH FUCKING MAKES IT SO.

Max WoD gear disparity: 10 iLevels, ~9.4%.
Max Legion gear disparity: 100 iLevels, ~10% (from gear - lets not talk Artifact)

The amount gear matters is almost exactly the same.

I have a PVP alt at the moment that I only got to 110 about two weeks ago. His item level is already 868 and he hasn't stepped foot inside a raid (including LFR) OR done any mythic content; just world quests, PVP, and whatever dungeons he had quests for while leveling up (none of which, if I recall, actually gave him an upgrade anyway).

Edit: Oh, and he actually got a legendary from one of his first PVP matches, too.

So you got extremely lucky on legendary RNG (as i still have 2 toons that have been 110 since just a few weeks after launch that dont have legendaries at all, despite doing Emissary quests every day and doing mythic/+ dungeons), and spent 2 weeks gearing.

Or, in WoD, you could have spent 4 hours gearing. Seems like a much lower bar to me, amirite?

Something else that gets thrown at you from PVP, especially when winning a match *or* when moving up an honor rank (which gives you a 500 point base token every time).

Yeah, you do not get the Glory of the Melee AP token every level. You get it every 3. And then every 2 after you prestige. Or i can go hit up about six WQs a day and get three times what ill make in six hours of PvP.

Which take no time at all to get, particularly if your team wins on a regular basis.

Is "no time at all" less than six hours? (Answer: no, it isn't). And i have to rely on winning on a regular basis? You can easily log into randos and go 0-20.

The thread isn't about "is it hard to get into PvP" (the answer is: no, it isn't; also, it never was, and i say that as a casual from day 1 of vanilla; too many people whine about a grind, but anything less than 20-30 hours is still "Easy")

This thread IS about "getting into PvP is harder now than it was before" - which is absolutely 100% true.

6 hours to full viability (WoD) vs 50+ hours to full viability (Legion). It is now harder and more time consuming, no two ways to slice it.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

You also stand a colossally good chance of not getting a piece at all for a loss (no one in the US Horde ever plays AV - its an automatic loss), and getting the same piece of gear you dont need over and over again, despite so-called "protection" from this. RNG sucks.

You're right, it's soooo much better not getting any gear at all and instead just having to farm 20-30 matches to buy one piece. And yeah, the Horde never win any matches at all. Those poor souls!

YOu're right! The MATH FUCKING MAKES IT SO.

Max WoD gear disparity: 10 iLevels, ~9.4%.
Max Legion gear disparity: 100 iLevels, ~10% (from gear - lets not talk Artifact)

What the fuck are you blathering about? Nothing of what you just wrote makes any sense.

So you got extremely lucky on legendary RNG (as i still have 2 toons that have been 110 since just a few weeks after launch that dont have legendaries at all, despite doing Emissary quests every day and doing mythic/+ dungeons), and spent 2 weeks gearing.

You're the idiot saying you can't get gear from PVP. You're wrong. Very, very wrong. It's pathetically easy to get gear without ever stepping foot into a raid or even a dungeon. And everything you get -- from any source -- IS PVP gear.

Yeah, you do not get the Glory of the Melee AP token every level. You get it every 3. And then every 2 after you prestige. Or i can go hit up about six WQs a day and get three times what ill make in six hours of PvP.

Oh no, you "have to" (and by "have to" I mean "can, because it's totally optional") go do easy peasy shit outside of PVP! THE HORROR! THE ANGUISH! THE WORLD WEEPS FOR YOUR TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS!

Hey guess what else. When you log into the game, you have to QUEUE for PVP, too. UGH!!!!! What a bother! /wrist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thread isn't about "is it hard to get into PvP"

Hate to break it to you, but it is. Your whining in the original post and the subject for said post says it al.

This thread IS about "getting into PvP is harder now than it was before" - which is absolutely 100% true.

No it's not. You hit level 110, you queue for PVP, you're good to go. Your gear has a minimal effect on how well you do, and as you gear up -- which you do just fine while PVPing -- your stats only get marginally better.

Translation: Quit being whiny.

P.S. Love how it's now "post WoD" rather than "post WotK." You stay classy, kid. And be sure to take your Aderol, else mommy will be mad.

[Caolela]

What the fuck are you blathering about? Nothing of what you just wrote makes any sense.

Congrats. Your brainwashing is complete and you passed the audition. George Orwell had nothing on you.

[rda]

What the fuck are you blathering about? Nothing of what you just wrote makes any sense.

(Guy #2806 who doesn't read.)

Read the thread.

Your post is a bunch of irrelevancies and things you misunderstood, plus a couple of things you seem to have no clue about. Because you didn't read the thread.

[Mafic]

This gearing system is broken (especially for PvP)

I started playing live Legion 30 days ago and I have two legendaries already. I have one equipped and will have the other equipped in another 30 days...lol.

Worst part of it all is that many artifact talents translates to way more power in terms of raw damage. Template system and not having the right honor talents makes you more gimped than previous expansions in PVP.

[Deleted]

I have a PVP alt at the moment that I only got to 110 about two weeks ago. His item level is already 868 and he hasn't stepped foot inside a raid (including LFR) OR done any mythic content; just world quests, PVP, and whatever dungeons he had quests for while leveling up (none of which, if I recall, actually gave him an upgrade anyway).

Okay, you're the third person in this thread claiming something like this. Give me a link to the armory of this character. I'm sure you can understand why 868ilevel in two weeks with just wq's and pvp sounds a little off beat, can't you? If this turns out to be true, then you REALLY need to tell me how you did it in great detail.

[Resentless]

YOu're right! The MATH FUCKING MAKES IT SO.

Max WoD gear disparity: 10 iLevels, ~9.4%.
Max Legion gear disparity: 100 iLevels, ~10% (from gear - lets not talk Artifact)

This right here is why I was so angry at people in this thread. What you have just said, and what rda said to me, are two different things. He said, and I would quote if I knew how to do 2 different people in one text, from quest greens to conquest gear the power disparity was 45%. The difference from quest greens and high ilvl in legion is not 100 ilvls, not currently anyway, and is 9%. THAT is the difference, and that is where you are getting confused. Saying "Oh honor gear takes 6 hours to get" doesnt change that fact. That is still playtime, that's still some kind of grind I have to do. I cannot do pvp without getting facesmashed in quest greens in WoD. Youre right, i remember the gladiators sanctum and aspirants gear was coming fast, but that itself still took time to do. In that time in Legion I already have my first tier of honor talents, several thousand AP from bg's/honor levels/wq's (same as having to farm ashran imo), all while no longer having my face pummelled.

THAT is the difference between WoD and Legion in terms of going into pvp out the gate. So no, getting into pvp is NOT harder than it was before. In terms of getting a full set of high ilvl pvp gear (880 or so, the highest from EN mythic atm, the second highest ilvl rewarding content in this game atm), then yes that takes quite a while due to the RNG nature of gear drops in pvp, which I agree sucks ass. Gear still drops like crazy. Yesterday alone, doing about 20 games of 3v3, 2 skirmishes, 2 random bgs and 3 rated bgs, I got 10 pieces of gear. 3 and a bit hours and 10 pieces, 2 of which were upgrades over the PVE gear I've collected (since I do pve as well in this expansion, they were all actually 855 or higher ilvl, which is better than mythic and early mythic+ dungeons). Does that not sound good to you? I think the only piece i got more than once was a ring, which was useless because I had a legendary.

rda presented the facts of the ilvl disparity, and while I agree that grinding AP also creates a grind and power disparity, between honor levels, wqs and whatever form of pvp you do, its really not a massive grind. You would be at AK 10 right now if you got to 110 10 days ago, and will have your 3rd golden trait. Beyond that are fairly useless traits and 7% stamina. I dont know the difference between honor and conquest gear in terms of HP, but im willing to bet even if you had half conquest you were roughly 7% stamina behind.

Not sure why anyone is talking about pve gear being used in pvp, that stopped after 5.2 (where some rep trinkets from ToT were really good).

Finally, shuubi, 2 weeks is certainly enough time to get 868 just doing pvp and WQ's. In 4 hours alone yesterday I had 10 pieces of gear ranging from 855-880 ilvl. Imagine that for 2 weeks. Maybe a legendary or two. Legions system isnt perfect but other than this thread I think the main concern isnt the barrier to entry its that PvP gear comes in such an RNG way. If you could target the piece you get at 10 wins I'm sure people would be happier.

[Deleted]

Finally, shuubi, 2 weeks is certainly enough time to get 868 just doing pvp and WQ's. In 4 hours alone yesterday I had 10 pieces of gear ranging from 855-880 ilvl. Imagine that for 2 weeks. Maybe a legendary or two.

Show me, because that just sounds unbelievable. Even if you win every single battleground as a freshly dinged character, you don't straight up get 855 from every one of them. I rarely receive any items from bg's outside the first victory of the day. What makes it even more unbelievable is that a fresh character doesn't get 855 items, you get 805 items and items start to scale with your ilevel.

[rda]

... while I agree that grinding AP also creates a grind and power disparity, between honor levels, wqs and whatever form of pvp you do, its really not a massive grind. You would be at AK 10 right now if you got to 110 10 days ago, and will have your 3rd golden trait. Beyond that are fairly useless traits and 7% stamina. I dont know the difference between honor and conquest gear in terms of HP, but im willing to bet even if you had half conquest you were roughly 7% stamina behind.

Not sure why anyone is talking about pve gear being used in pvp, that stopped after 5.2 (where some rep trinkets from ToT were really good).

Three notes:

1. Let's separate the very short period from no gear to initial gear and the rest of PVP. In WoD, this meant quest greens to honor gear, and in Legion this means no PVP talents to PVP talents plus whatever progress you may get in this time on gear / artifact. We all seem to agree that these periods are very short. In WoD, it could have been a couple of hours with Ashran with or without Gladiator Sanctum. I would argue it was shorter in WoD than it is in Legion, but that's not even important, let's say they are equal. Yes, if you try to PVP in that initial period while you have nothing and others have everything, you are at a disadvantage - big in both cases - but the period is so short, it does not matter. Let's just stop talking about these short periods (that Legion does not even win so I am not sure why they keep popping up and dominate the talk).

2. You are talking about AK 10. That assumes you played that character. If you are going to an alt you didn't play or rolling a new alt, you don't have AK 10. Yes, they are adding tokens to transfer AK to alts. That's exactly them trying to fix the system somewhat. Because without these tokens or something similar, it is broken, alts have a very hard time. In WoD/MoP the problem was solved via conquest catch-up. So, that's a case of them making it much worse in Legion than in WoD and then trying to fix it - and we don't have the fix just yet, it is about a month away.

3. Regarding PVE gear being used in PVP - this stopped being a thing in MoP/WoD. But Legion brought that back! It is much simpler to gear in PVE than in PVP. You mentioned that it is possible to get great gear in PVP, and I didn't reply on the spot, perhaps it is time to do so - that's an illusion. They tied gear in PVP to rating and due to how rating pyramid works, that means that - by design - only something like 1% (or 0.1%, that changes every time there is a new raid tier or when they adjust PVP rewards) of those who PVP will ever get gear that is better than they could get from PVE. You might say that this isn't a problem, and the rest just have to get good, but they can't get good, the moment someone gets good and gets his gear, someone else suddenly gets bad and stops getting his gear. As a whole, the system might as well not have been there, because the vast majority of PVPers can't even feel it, they never get anything useful out of it, all their gear comes from PVE. That's what is meant by saying that you have to PVE to PVP - this is true in the vast majority of cases, as in, you can surely try to PVP to get gear for PVP, but 99% of "you" won't suceed. That's another thing that is much worse in Legion than in MoP/WoD. And unlike with AK, we don't have the fix for that yet even in the plans.

Sum total, Legion didn't solve any issues, but it brought back several big ones that have been solved already. Yes, they are trying to fix some of them in patches, and maybe they will fix all of them towards the end of an expansion. But it is a pity that we now have to spend years re-fixing issues that have already been fixed for a long time, instead of moving forward. Ie, I'd like solo queue, yet we are spending time on this shit. Again. (And after Legion, they might totally do another pointless revolution like that, breaking everything again, then heroically fixing it to the level it used to be. They are like Sisyphus who can never get past his mountain - but by their own stupid choice. They should stop these idiotic revolutions which break what worked instead of fixing what didn't work.)

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Really? I've felt just the opposite. In previous xpacs, I was put off of pvp because of the gear disadvantage. I never did enough pvp (not my thing really) to have enough gear to be competitive, so when I did dabble in it I was at such a disadvantage that it felt pointless to even try.

In Legion I filled all my talents out just from doing the WQs and occasional BG for AP. I'm still no pro, and most of you in this thread would probably own me in a duel, but I do feel less outmatched than in the past. More than a few times lately I've been jumped and was able to turn the tables, either fighting back well enough that my attacker ran away to look for easier prey or sometimes even nailing them with a stun and finishing them off. All of which makes me more likely to queue for pvp, which in turn gives the rest of you another target to play with.

[Osmeric]

Sum total, Legion didn't solve any issues, it just created new ones.

It solved the issue of players using PvP to get gear for PvE, or feeling they were being forced to.

[rda]

It solved the issue of players using PvP to get gear for PvE, or feeling they were being forced to.

Well, if we are talking about things this small, then sure, but (a) it was certainly not worth the rest of it, and (b) if that was such an important issue, there was a much easier solution - just tune ilvls (ie, just scale all PVP gear way down in PVE - to the level of heroics, LOL, because that's what the majority of people get now from PVP anyway).

I don't think this was the reason they revamped everything in PVP. I think they revamped everything because the big theme of Legion is simplification (it could have been good, but they did a terrible job at it), so the PVP team brought PVP gearing to that altar as their contribution.