Defense budgets climb as NATO countries step up spending

[jimboa24]

Good. It's about damn time that our NATO allies stop pretending the U.S. is the world's international police force and they don't need to have a military because we'll do all the fighting and military shit for them. Maybe now the U.S. can focus on its own domestic issues instead of stretching ourselves thin with a massive, world-wide military force.

And Tennisace, you can stop your whining about having to budget money away from healthcare and infrastructure. For decades Europe has gotten fat and complacent, knowing that if Russia ever got warmongery, the United States would take care of it and none of them would ever need more than a token military force. Canada especially benefits from the fact that they live right next door to the biggest and scariest military in the world; don't try and pretend like that's not the biggest reason you don't have much of a military.

I'mnot saying that we shouldn't support our allies, but for too long the U.S. has happily played the role of the world's military police force and global peacekeeper. Not that that isn't a noble thing to pursue, but not at our own expense. It's time for the other nations of the world to step up and learn how to defend themselves. What would you do to shore up your own military if the United States did not exist and you couldn't rely on them to come to your rescue if Putin was knocking on your door? Well, do that. Because you should, even though the U.S. does exist.

[caervek]

the American government does some pretty fucking shit things including organising death squads, torturing innocent people, propping up brutal dictators in countries as long as they were pro-American, invading and occupying a country that didn't attack us, etc.

The rest are all well evidenced but I think you're going to need to explain this one.

[Invrlose]

The rest are all well evidenced but I think you're going to need to explain this one.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/terrori...squads/5317564

- - - Updated - - -

Good. It's about damn time that our NATO allies stop pretending the U.S. is the world's international police force and they don't need to have a military because we'll do all the fighting and military shit for them. Maybe now the U.S. can focus on its own domestic issues instead of stretching ourselves thin with a massive, world-wide military force.

And Tennisace, you can stop your whining about having to budget money away from healthcare and infrastructure. For decades Europe has gotten fat and complacent, knowing that if Russia ever got warmongery, the United States would take care of it and none of them would ever need more than a token military force. Canada especially benefits from the fact that they live right next door to the biggest and scariest military in the world; don't try and pretend like that's not the biggest reason you don't have much of a military.

I'mnot saying that we shouldn't support our allies, but for too long the U.S. has happily played the role of the world's military police force and global peacekeeper. Not that that isn't a noble thing to pursue, but not at our own expense. It's time for the other nations of the world to step up and learn how to defend themselves. What would you do to shore up your own military if the United States did not exist and you couldn't rely on them to come to your rescue if Putin was knocking on your door? Well, do that. Because you should, even though the U.S. does exist.

Implying America doesn't do that all voluntarily. Give me a break bro. And cut it out with the world police shit. If the US only cared about altruism and protecting the innocent, they wouldn't be giving weapons to countries like saudi Arabia and Israel who then turn around and go on civilian bombing orgies in other countries. They wouldn't be arming islamist and jihadist rebels in Syria, either.

[jimboa24]

Implying America doesn't do that all voluntarily. Give me a break bro.

Yes, because all Americans agree that the way things have been is the way things should continue to be.

Hmm, I forget, how did that last election go? OH, WAIT...

[Invrlose]

Yes, because all Americans agree that the way things have been is the way things should continue to be.

Hmm, I forget, how did that last election go? OH, WAIT...

What in the actual fuck does that have to do with what I said? And if you think trumps election will change anything you are wrong. The neocons are all fellating each other right now and can't wait to have free reign to do whatever they want. Think bush era policy on steroids.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Glad to see Canada not mentioned here. We should focus on healthcare, education and social services rather than wasting resources on a larger military.

Canada doesnt have this problem because they are already there. I mean I didn't see anyone saying the USA isn't spending enough either.

[Invrlose]

Today on not-getting-nuances: this post.

Letting Russia go bankrupt equals to sentencing everyonw to death now does it?

Today on not realising that a country like Russia going bankrupt would lead to probably millions of deaths: this post. By saying you wouldn't care if Russia went bankrupt, you are condemning millions of innocent people to death.

[caervek]

Letting Russia go bankrupt equals to sentencing everyonw to death now does it?

There is a distinct difference between letting a country go bankrupt and actively causing it to go bankrupt via economic warfare.

[Easo]

You see, Tennisace, we chose it ourselves, due to actions of Russia. It was not the big papa USA, who made us do it, it was the actions (and thinly/not so thinly veiled threats) of Russia. You do not have them as neighbor, we do. You may not understand it, but Canada is protected by USA and they are your safety warrant. You have had that benefit for what now? Century already? We have the reality of resurgent, slavophilic (more like Russophilic, IMHO), wishing to avenge some great injustice (whether real or not) Russia on our border, kneejerking with weapon waving over everything we ever do.

It's not like 2% is something unreasonable, or something "a lot". Everybody in Eastern Europe is investing in infrastructure, healthcare and other projects. That does not mean that armed forces have to be neglected at the same time.
Anyway, I do not see the point in trying to explain to you, because judging from the innumerable threads you start you either ALWAYS see some "injustice" everywhere or are just plain trolling/craving for attention.
P.S.
F-35 is not a failure. Is it over the budget? Of course. But the scope and importance of this project is huge and thus it has to and it will be done. Good luck to anyone trying to counter those thousands of F-35's.
Also, saying that carriers are offensive weapons is a bunch of BS. Almost all weapons can be used for both purposes.

[Invrlose]

Maybe the Russian government and posters like you should stop hiding behind civilians? There is another thread going on right now where Russian posters are defending bombing civilians if there is a chance to kill enemy combatants. Why should I give a shit about Russians maybe dying if their country goes to shit if they themselves are okay with actively killing civilians to reach their goals? You reap what you sow.



And there is distinct difference between shooting someone and causing them to go bankrupt.

Jesus christ, it's too early in the morning for me to actually pretend like I care about being civil when discoursing with stupid people. Most Russians are innocent fucking people who just want to go to work and have a normal life, they have absolutely NO CONTROL over what their government does, and don't deserve to have some jackoff on the internet saying he'd have no problem with their country going completely bankrupt and resulting in millions of people potentially dying. And finally, where the fuck did I say it's okay to kill civilians? You're just making shit up now, if you actually read my posts you would see I've criticised Saudi Arabia, Israel, America, and other countries for killing civilians in war.

[caervek]

It's not like 2% is something unreasonable, or something "a lot".

Actually it is a lot hence why people complain, NATO bang on about 2% but it really isn't needed, to put it in perspective Europe could kick the crap out of Russia in a conventional war with zero help from the USA and we have the nuclear capability to achieve MAD deterrent levels with them, in addition to that it will be at least 30 years before China could become a threat to us. The only valid reason for investing like crazy in military infrastructure is to prepare for the unlikely event that the USA goes rogue and needs to be fended off, which is simply not happening even with Trump in charge.

Good luck to anyone trying to counter those thousands of F-35's.

There isn't going to be thousands of F-35s produced lol, the F-16 only got to 4500 and that was significantly cheaper to buy/run and more versatile.

Also, saying that carriers are offensive weapons is a bunch of BS.

Carriers are designed for force projection, they are almost worthless for defensive purposes.

[Pua]

Mmm. It seems some people have already taken the step of conflating national foreign policy with something a national population must automatically agree with.

Which is a shame, because it's often quite the reverse.

[caervek]

And finally, where the **** did I say it's okay to kill civilians?

To be fair you do have a war criminal for an avatar, that kinda turns people against you before they even see your posts.

[Pua]

Carriers are designed for force projection, they are almost worthless for defensive purposes.

From a kinetic viewpoint, yes.

They also see use for political reasons, however, and we shouldn't forget that fact.

[Invrlose]

To be fair you do have a war criminal for an avatar, that kinda turns people against you before they even see your posts.

Erwin Rommel was not a war criminal.

[Pua]

Erwin Rommel was not a war criminal.

No, but he's wearing a Nazi uniform. He must, therefore, be a war criminal and not an extremely challenging historical figure.

[Berengil]

Erwin Rommel was not a war criminal.

Off-topic of the thread, but this is correct. No unit under Field Marshal Rommel's command was ever accused of war crimes. He was also well known among the Allies for his humane treatment of Allied P.O.W.s in areas under his control. I've read that he openly disobeyed Hitler's orders to segregate Jewish P.O.W.s from other Allied prisoners. Even Churchill spoke in Parliament about Rommel's chivalrous conduct.

Quite simply, Rommel was a case of a good and decent man living in the midst of unutterable evil and trying to thread the needle to maintain his personal honor and protect his wife and children.

- - - Updated - - -

No, but he's wearing a Nazi uniform. He must, therefore, be a war criminal and not an extremely challenging historical figure.

This is not inconsistent with anything I've ever said about Rommel. There are certainly things that he could have done differently.

[Crispin]

The 7th panzer division did commit war crimes under Rommels command in 1940, he were also in command of army group b, which included 1st ss panzer division leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler.

[Easo]

Actually it is a lot hence why people complain, NATO bang on about 2% but it really isn't needed, to put it in perspective Europe could kick the crap out of Russia in a conventional war with zero help from the USA and we have the nuclear capability to achieve MAD deterrent levels with them, in addition to that it will be at least 30 years before China could become a threat to us. The only valid reason for investing like crazy in military infrastructure is to prepare for the unlikely event that the USA goes rogue and needs to be fended off, which is simply not happening even with Trump in charge.



There isn't going to be thousands of F-35s produced lol, the F-16 only got to 4500 and that was significantly cheaper to buy/run and more versatile.



Carriers are designed for force projection, they are almost worthless for defensive purposes.

1. I veeery much doubt that Europe could stop Russia anytime sooner than somewhere in Germany. MAD? Are you sure? Arsenals of Britain and France are way smaller than what Russia can launch. Contrary to the popular belief it would take far more than few nukes detonating to stop someone so big.
2. I am pretty sure that current orders still total 3k planes. F-16 was made in times when Cold War was ongoing and armed forces were much bigger everywhere.
3. Tell me again how carrier is almost worthless for defensive purposes, when it's fighters are sending enemy's naval invasion force to the bottom?

[Deleted]

The 7th panzer division did commit war crimes under Rommels command in 1940

interesting, and your source`is?