Trial of Valor nerf this week

[Jtbrig7390]

also gc also pointed out that he is not working at blizzard the expansion where he was in charge undeperformed all

I don't know if you realize this but no one gives a flying fuck what Ghostclawer has to say. Also while he didn't work on WOD he sure as shit did work on Cata where the bleeding started and worked on MOP where the bleeding stopped bleeding as much.

Also him quiting before WOD's release doesn't mean he didn't work on it some. WOD was in development while MOP was going.

[Kiri]

I like the nerf to that stupid spear. Finally a way to survive that when I have to tank it >>

[KaPe]

I like the nerf to that stupid spear. Finally a way to survive that when I have to tank it >>

What, you didn't like having to rely on Paladins? Such a fun mechanic, especially considering how balanced tank mobility and cooldowns are. Maybe if the Spear gave you movement speed buff it would make more sense - or if they came less often so tanks actually had enough cooldowns.

[Kiri]

What, you didn't like having to rely on Paladins? Such a fun mechanic, especially considering how balanced tank mobility and cooldowns are. Maybe if the Spear gave you movement speed buff it would make more sense - or if they came less often so tanks actually had enough cooldowns.

I know, right? For us it was: get spear, run, pray you survive, run back and immediately taunt so you could actually tank the boss for ten seconds.

[dmfg]

What was once a fun fight has turned mindless guilds that shouldn't have killed this boss are now getting free kills because of it. Watched a guild that spent the last two weeks never getting to phase three (because their raiders keep dying to mechanics and their dps is sub par) kill this boss within 15 pulls with these nerfs. Truly pathetic from Blizzard.

That is literally the point of these nerfs, so people can kill him and stop staring at runes 24/7. Why do you even care anyway? All it does is make your boring farm very slightly faster (10% faster in fact).

Blizzard doesn't care about teaching people to be better raiders. They just want people to be able to continue killing bosses at a steady rate.

[Nuckels]

Nope. This isn't about me. I'm saying Blizzard would have done objectively better if they had abandoned their focus on pleasing the hardcore raiders.

Hardcore raiding is a cancer. It drives content consumption at top speed. It creates a game that destroys the ego payoff for most other players. It stratifies the player population and dismembers broad social connections.



So, when he makes a statement that gives us a peek at what their internal stats were saying, you think a lame ad hominem argument allows you to dismiss that evidence (realizing that you are saying he's deliberately lying, as they would know one way or the other)?

Stop making subjective opinions sound like facts.

[Osmeric]

Stop making subjective opinions sound like facts.

So, what sort of argument would you actually accept? Your objection seems to be a passive-aggressive way to cut off debate.

[Deja Thoris]

So, what sort of argument would you actually accept? Your objection seems to be a passive-aggressive way to cut off debate.

He wants his subjective opinion taken as fact, silly!

[Nuckels]

So, what sort of argument would you actually accept? Your objection seems to be a passive-aggressive way to cut off debate.

I didn't say I had anything against a subjective argument did I? I said stop making it sound like facts. "Hardcore raiding is cancer" should be "I think Hardcore raiding is cancer". You say hardcore raiders have a ego but the way you present your arguments as facts makes it seem like you have quite the ego yourself. This is ofcourse where you take bits and pieces of what I said previously to argue out of context rather then taking a step back and thinking "hey maybe I should start considering how I present my opinion" but thats the internet for ya.

Here is a shocker for you, not every hardcore raider has a ego and not every skinhead is a nazi, the world aint black and white.

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He wants his subjective opinion taken as fact, silly!

Obviously.

[dnicks17]

What was once a fun fight has turned mindless guilds that shouldn't have killed this boss are now getting free kills because of it. Watched a guild that spent the last two weeks never getting to phase three (because their raiders keep dying to mechanics and their dps is sub par) kill this boss within 15 pulls with these nerfs. Truly pathetic from Blizzard.

It's like they completely changed their mind on what ToV was supposed to be.

Instead of a challenging thing to do after you've completed M EN, it's now a loot pinata that 4-5/7M guilds can easily do.

2/3M is honestly free if your healers aren't retarded on dispels/Flame Lick.

[Woobels]

I didn't say I had anything against a subjective argument did I? I said stop making it sound like facts. "Hardcore raiding is cancer" should be "I think Hardcore raiding is cancer". You say hardcore raiders have a ego but the way you present your arguments as facts makes it seem like you have quite the ego yourself. This is ofcourse where you take bits and pieces of what I said previously to argue out of context rather then taking a step back and thinking "hey maybe I should start considering how I present my opinion" but thats the internet for ya.

Here is a shocker for you, not every hardcore raider has a ego and not every skinhead is a nazi, the world aint black and white.

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Obviously.

This has been his shtick for about 18000 posts, I don't get why you would bother engaging.

I was pleasantly surprised to see less Osmeric whining with the launch of Legion but Blizzard slightly overtuning one instance means every player who enjoys spending more than 2 hours a week on this game needs to burn on the stake again.

[Team]

I think a lot of the people in this thread getting mad and saying "Any kills after this aren't deserved >=[!" are taking this game a little too seriously.

If you killed it before these nerfs congrats, your team is doing well! If you kill it after these nerfs congrats, you did it! Now both of these types of players can wait for NH. What's the big deal? If you argue that the game is for casuals I think you've been living under a rock for a longggggg time. Every game caters to casuals more than hardcore nowadays. The point is both hardcore/casuals can down content, and? You can say "OMG CASUALS DONT DESERVE TO DOWN CONTENT FFS" but if they can't do Mythic, would that make you happy? Because most can't so now what? Where do you go from there? Hardcore players, do you finally feel superior? Casuals, do you finally feel "good" that you downed content you couldn't do before?

Lol

[Deleted]

Guess Blizzard really wants everyone to clear ToV before Nighthold releases haha

[KaPe]

It's like they completely changed their mind on what ToV was supposed to be.

Instead of a challenging thing to do after you've completed M EN, it's now a loot pinata that 4-5/7M guilds can easily do.

2/3M is honestly free if your healers aren't retarded on dispels/Flame Lick.

4-5/7M you say. I'm looking at Dragons and I see a grand total of one instant kill mechanic, which is absolutely trivial as long as 5 people do their job. Outside of that, there's no dps check at all. There aren't many mechanics which force movement and none of them affect the entire raid at once. There is no soft enrage. Raid damage ramps up and then drops down, instead of bombarding you with AOE every 8-10 seconds. There's dispeling, so I guess this counts as a huge difficulty increase by your logic.

Maybe you meant Cenarius. In there, everyone avoids the dangerous part of the fight with double sisters, which is exactly what you do on Odyn. After all, if you do enough damage you can skip Shatt... Smit... erm... wait, no, you don't skip anything. Maybe you'll be able to avoid Shield/Horn in P2, but I haven't tried it post nerf yet. Other than that, you'll still have to deal with everything, it simply won't be as overwhelming.

It's a bullshit post and you know it. There's 4000 Il'gynoth kills and zero chance Odyn will reach those numbers before Nighthold.

[Tharkkun]

It's like they completely changed their mind on what ToV was supposed to be.

Instead of a challenging thing to do after you've completed M EN, it's now a loot pinata that 4-5/7M guilds can easily do.

2/3M is honestly free if your healers aren't retarded on dispels/Flame Lick.

If you had Mythic EN on farm then you should be able to walk into TOV and progress easily. That wasn't the case. With only a small ilevel difference it didn't make sense how brutal the damage was for doing it correctly.

[dnicks17]

4-5/7M you say. I'm looking at Dragons and I see a grand total of one instant kill mechanic, which is absolutely trivial as long as 5 people do their job. Outside of that, there's no dps check at all. There aren't many mechanics which force movement and none of them affect the entire raid at once. There is no soft enrage. Raid damage ramps up and then drops down, instead of bombarding you with AOE every 8-10 seconds. There's dispeling, so I guess this counts as a huge difficulty increase by your logic.

Maybe you meant Cenarius. In there, everyone avoids the dangerous part of the fight with double sisters, which is exactly what you do on Odyn. After all, if you do enough damage you can skip Shatt... Smit... erm... wait, no, you don't skip anything. Maybe you'll be able to avoid Shield/Horn in P2, but I haven't tried it post nerf yet. Other than that, you'll still have to deal with everything, it simply won't be as overwhelming.

It's a bullshit post and you know it. There's 4000 Il'gynoth kills and zero chance Odyn will reach those numbers before Nighthold.

Odyn's instant kill mechanic is trivial. If you're struggling on that, you're probably struggling on rot placement on Nyth. The nerfs also allowed us to do the fight with two less Runebearer phases.

The raid damage is easily handled with a CD rotation. Healers can sleep through P2 due to the shatter nerf.

There's basically no DPS check anymore. Hymdall/Hyrja were dying ~25 seconds sooner, P2 was about 2 minutes shorter and we ended P3 about 45 seconds sooner. I'm pretty sure we'll experiment with keeping a few people on Odyn during Hym/Hyr phases to push Odyn before the second Hymdall phase to shave another minute off P2 next week.

I'd recommend doing the fight post-nerf. I don't think you realize how drastic the nerfs were.

[Kraineth]

If you had Mythic EN on farm then you should be able to walk into TOV and progress easily. That wasn't the case. With only a small ilevel difference it didn't make sense how brutal the damage was for doing it correctly.

Mythic EN was a joke. 7/7 mythic is basically free now that guilds have decent gear, there are no real mechanics checks. And the only real challenge in the instance (Cenarius) has been completely trivialized by gear and just zerging the crap out of him.

The only problem with ToV is that Nighthold is coming out too soon for the instance to be a good challenge. The nerfs were to help guilds who would have eventually killed the bosses get them done before Nighthold releases and the entire instance is irrelevant.

I don't fault blizzard at all for giving us some good mechanic check fights that also had respectable DPS checks.

[KaPe]

I'd recommend doing the fight post-nerf. I don't think you realize how drastic the nerfs were.

Of course it's easier and of course our re-kill was faster. But this is still not the level of Dragons. You vastly understate the difference in output between guilds who are in the middle of Emerald Nightmare and those who were progressing on Odyn. For those people, killing Runebearers in time will not be trivial. Raid damage will not be trivial, even though Shatter is much weaker. If anything, phase 3 might be harder for them, since the damage was largely unchanged and with new Shatter it can come as a surprise.

So no, I don't see how I was wrong.

[dnicks17]

Of course it's easier and of course our re-kill was faster. But this is still not the level of Dragons. You vastly understate the difference in output between guilds who are in the middle of Emerald Nightmare and those who were progressing on Odyn. For those people, killing Runebearers in time will not be trivial. Raid damage will not be trivial, even though Shatter is much weaker. If anything, phase 3 might be harder for them, since the damage was largely unchanged and with new Shatter it can come as a surprise.

So no, I don't see how I was wrong.

They'll have more than enough gear to meet those checks(if you can even call them that anymore).

A competent guild working on Cenarius will have a relatively easy time downing him.

[KaPe]

They'll have more than enough gear to meet those checks(if you can even call them that anymore).

A competent guild working on Cenarius will have a relatively easy time downing him.

"Working on Cenarius" indicates that they weren't able to beat his dps check yet. Odyn's isn't easier.