Thinking of possibly switching to hunter for 7.1.5

[Ctee]

Is this a good idea? How are they looking even though tuning isn't 100% finished?

Which spec is the strongest and will be the strongest?

[Glurp]

How are they looking even though tuning isn't 100% finished?

Nevermind tuning not being 100% finished, tuning literally hasn't started. No one can answer anything.

[Megotaku77]

MM will likely be the best ranged DPS in the game in 7.1.5. We will have far above median AoE/Cleave and median to above-median single target. Our kit will have outstanding utility with the return of traps. We won't be the best in the game at anything, but we will have a tool for every situation. Something only Fire mage was able to say last patch.

BM will likely still be the weakest raiding spec in the game. And it should remain that way. It's a spec with no depth, no nuance, no punishment for bad play, and can DPS on the move without penalty. BM players look at these advantages and still demand better DPS than other specs who don't have them, but Blizzard isn't stupid. BM is going to remain lowest possible tier because that's what balance looks like. That's not to say they aren't raid viable, because they are. They're just baby's first raid spec. Something to play until you can put on your big boy pants.

SV was removed from the game as far as I'm concerned. It could be top DPS in the game, the current iteration won't see significant representation. There are literally 12 other MDPS specs to choose from that are more interesting and better balanced.

[Chickensoup23]

MM will likely be the best ranged DPS in the game in 7.1.5

you must have been smoking some really good shit

[Megotaku77]

you must have been smoking some really good shit

Feel free to point out which RDPS has a better kit in 7.1.5.

[Etrnlaffair]

MM will likely be the best ranged DPS in the game in 7.1.5. We will have far above median AoE/Cleave and median to above-median single target. Our kit will have outstanding utility with the return of traps. We won't be the best in the game at anything, but we will have a tool for every situation. Something only Fire mage was able to say last patch.

BM will likely still be the weakest raiding spec in the game. And it should remain that way. It's a spec with no depth, no nuance, no punishment for bad play, and can DPS on the move without penalty. BM players look at these advantages and still demand better DPS than other specs who don't have them, but Blizzard isn't stupid. BM is going to remain lowest possible tier because that's what balance looks like. That's not to say they aren't raid viable, because they are. They're just baby's first raid spec. Something to play until you can put on your big boy pants.

SV was removed from the game as far as I'm concerned. It could be top DPS in the game, the current iteration won't see significant representation. There are literally 12 other MDPS specs to choose from that are more interesting and better balanced.

MM is going to be the worst spec to play in the game honestly. It will be clunky and more rng dependent than any other spec in the game. No movement either.

[Megotaku77]

MM is going to be the worst spec to play in the game honestly. It will be clunky and more rng dependent than any other spec in the game. No movement either.

It's not the most RNG dependent, you'd have to be high to believe that. Outlaw, Arms and Enhancement have error bars off the charts even at perfect play (sims). Shadow has huge margins of RNG, but only going downward on DPS. Frost Mage has enormous RNG and it's getting much worse in the patch when they lose their ability to reliably proc FoF. Most RNG in the game? Marking Targets has 5 RPPM. I'm sorry, you're more than entitled to your opinion, but saying we have the most RNG is the game is factually false.

As to it being the worst spec to play, that's a matter of opinion. The Sidewinders build isn't going anywhere and up until the buff to arcane shot was still competing for the top build. 130% -> 200% on Arcane Shot shouldn't be more than a 3-5% DPS difference and if you're that worried about the RNG you can continue doing the only viable spec on live: Sidewinders. I dislike vulnerable as much as the next hunter, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. Consider your alternatives. Do you really want to multi-dot? Bane? The new Elemental has 2 separate gearing priorities depending on ST or AoE. Look at the disgusting mess blizzard has made of the other ranged specs and be glad vulnerable is the worst we have to deal with.

[Makro]

Is this a good idea? How are they looking even though tuning isn't 100% finished?

Which spec is the strongest and will be the strongest?

Just my personal opinion If you are talking abot raiding, just don't.
It looks like MM is going to be the only viable spec number-wise and the gameplay is going to be super annoying.
I'd switch out of hunter this second if I could.

[Finbezz]

MM is going to be the worst spec to play in the game honestly. It will be clunky and more rng dependent than any other spec in the game. No movement either.

lol, marks has almost no relevant RNG. quit talking out your ass.

[Hatch]

BM will likely still be the weakest raiding spec in the game. And it should remain that way. It's a spec with no depth, no nuance, no punishment for bad play, and can DPS on the move without penalty. BM players look at these advantages and still demand better DPS than other specs who don't have them, but Blizzard isn't stupid. BM is going to remain lowest possible tier because that's what balance looks like. That's not to say they aren't raid viable, because they are. They're just baby's first raid spec. Something to play until you can put on your big boy pants.

This is just downright idiotic... we actually do want depth, nuance, punishment for bad play. we just don't want rock bottom dps because of our mobility. we like the pet playstyle vs the sniper playstyle.

A blizzard is somewhat stupid in the regards that they made the spec like this, they gutted the class (it's not even the spec, it's the entire class) and refuse to address the issue with it.

[Khrux]

I'm all in on BM for Nighthold, the fights are aids and there is alot of A) movement and B) Clumped adds - two areas BM is strong in.

MM will struggle to perform for progress at least, outside of Padding on the fights where they can do it, plus the rotation and vulnerable mechanic is at its worst in 7.1.5 so I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than play the spec.

[Deleted]

It's not the most RNG dependent, you'd have to be high to believe that. Outlaw, Arms and Enhancement have error bars off the charts even at perfect play (sims). Shadow has huge margins of RNG, but only going downward on DPS. Frost Mage has enormous RNG and it's getting much worse in the patch when they lose their ability to reliably proc FoF. Most RNG in the game? Marking Targets has 5 RPPM. I'm sorry, you're more than entitled to your opinion, but saying we have the most RNG is the game is factually false.

As to it being the worst spec to play, that's a matter of opinion. The Sidewinders build isn't going anywhere and up until the buff to arcane shot was still competing for the top build. 130% -> 200% on Arcane Shot shouldn't be more than a 3-5% DPS difference and if you're that worried about the RNG you can continue doing the only viable spec on live: Sidewinders. I dislike vulnerable as much as the next hunter, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. Consider your alternatives. Do you really want to multi-dot? Bane? The new Elemental has 2 separate gearing priorities depending on ST or AoE. Look at the disgusting mess blizzard has made of the other ranged specs and be glad vulnerable is the worst we have to deal with.

Stop trolling dude - BM is great and fine. For raids very good (though not best) - but for m+ the best class/spec out of all - bringing by far best util + very good damage - and the best reliable dam, no matter what the conditions are. If stars align MM could have a crazy max parse/fight - but bm is always very good each fight. Minor bug fixes needed and only being buffed in 7.1.5. Dont give false information to new hunters.

[ridiculous87]

MM will likely be the best ranged DPS in the game in 7.1.5. We will have far above median AoE/Cleave and median to above-median single target. Our kit will have outstanding utility with the return of traps. We won't be the best in the game at anything, but we will have a tool for every situation. Something only Fire mage was able to say last patch.

BM will likely still be the weakest raiding spec in the game. And it should remain that way. It's a spec with no depth, no nuance, no punishment for bad play, and can DPS on the move without penalty. BM players look at these advantages and still demand better DPS than other specs who don't have them, but Blizzard isn't stupid. BM is going to remain lowest possible tier because that's what balance looks like. That's not to say they aren't raid viable, because they are. They're just baby's first raid spec. Something to play until you can put on your big boy pants.

SV was removed from the game as far as I'm concerned. It could be top DPS in the game, the current iteration won't see significant representation. There are literally 12 other MDPS specs to choose from that are more interesting and better balanced.

So have you actually played it on the PTR and in Nighthold? Because the best hunters in the game who have said MM is the worst shit they've ever played and that BM will be more viable. What dream world are you getting your information from? You should really stop spreading misinformation.

Edit: OP, here's a podcast including Roger, a hunter from one of the best guilds in the world, Method and three other well respeced hunters if you don't want to take my word for it (nm, won't let me post links ). You can find the video im talking about on [www].twitch.tv/huntingpartypodcast

[Deleted]

MM will likely be the best ranged DPS in the game in 7.1.5. We will have far above median AoE/Cleave and median to above-median single target. Our kit will have outstanding utility with the return of traps. We won't be the best in the game at anything, but we will have a tool for every situation. Something only Fire mage was able to say last patch.

BM will likely still be the weakest raiding spec in the game. And it should remain that way. It's a spec with no depth, no nuance, no punishment for bad play, and can DPS on the move without penalty. BM players look at these advantages and still demand better DPS than other specs who don't have them, but Blizzard isn't stupid. BM is going to remain lowest possible tier because that's what balance looks like. That's not to say they aren't raid viable, because they are. They're just baby's first raid spec. Something to play until you can put on your big boy pants.

SV was removed from the game as far as I'm concerned. It could be top DPS in the game, the current iteration won't see significant representation. There are literally 12 other MDPS specs to choose from that are more interesting and better balanced.

Trolling is, annoying, but not damaging in 'most' circumstances.
However someone is asking for advice and alot of what you have written has little validation. Even rogerbrown a hunter in the best guild in the world says bm appears to be better on some fights, and mm on others. And yes whilst bm is simple and don't get me wrong, I would love mop/wod bm to return, but don't speak as fact, speak as opinion. Some people might enjoy being able to move/be versatile at the cost of 'fun' gameplay. If we give Constructive feedback blizzard will change things, rather than flaming.

ps: you look like an idiot if you post crap like this

[Megotaku77]

Trolling is, annoying, but not damaging in 'most' circumstances.
However someone is asking for advice and alot of what you have written has little validation. Even rogerbrown a hunter in the best guild in the world says bm appears to be better on some fights, and mm on others. And yes whilst bm is simple and don't get me wrong, I would love mop/wod bm to return, but don't speak as fact, speak as opinion. Some people might enjoy being able to move/be versatile at the cost of 'fun' gameplay. If we give Constructive feedback blizzard will change things, rather than flaming.

ps: you look like an idiot if you post crap like this

So when the patch lands and MM hunter remains the top DPS spec and BM remains the worst, will you admit you were wrong? Or will you forget/rationalize it away? BM isn't going live as the top spec, period. If it does, there will be a nerfbat inc in the first 2 days of patch. Although I have seen absolutely no evidence whatsoever aside from the say-so of "top hunters" that say a spec that has seen no significant buffs, significant nerfs to BiS legendaries, and among the worst T19 set bonuses is going to beat a spec that has been clearly improved in all facets of gameplay except a minor nerf to AoE/Cleave and powerful T19 set bonuses that synergize with all aspects of PvE gameplay.

The people who think BM is going to be top are silly and delusional. Nothing more needs to be said about it.

*EDIT* After listening to the podcast I can discover nothing that contradicts what I said here. I hear typical complaints about MM Hunter rotation. Nothing in terms of hard DPS numbers. Hemming and hawing about "maybes" and "possiblies" based on what fights look like, but nothing on what the DPS numbers actually end up looking like. RogerBrown didn't even know the name of Piercing Shot as a shot in his 100 talent row. He also wasn't aware that Aimed Shot damage is determined on the shot, not when it lands as of research from 2-ish weeks ago by DracoDraco (which makes it client-side unaffected by latency) then proceeds to complain about latency.

The long and short of it is: people citing this podcast as evidence of BM being the top spec are writing a check their evidence can't cash. What I got from this podcast is a reinforcement of what I already know: being a "top player" is about time investment, not knowledge.

[Deleted]

So when the patch lands and MM hunter remains the top DPS spec and BM remains the worst, will you admit you were wrong? Or will you forget/rationalize it away?

I didn't really talk in a personal way? neither did I say bm would be top - If you actually read my post I said that mm or bm will be better on different fights.

The people who think BM is going to be top are silly and delusional. Nothing more needs to be said about it.

You underestimate the synergy between the class trinket (reduction on aspect of the wild cd) and the massive benefit of the shoulders. I would like to see your evidence to say why bm will be 'bottom' tier as you said in your last post.

*EDIT* After listening to the podcast I can discover nothing that contradicts what I said here. I hear typical complaints about MM Hunter rotation. Nothing in terms of hard DPS numbers. Hemming and hawing about "maybes" and "possiblies" based on what fights look like, but nothing on what the DPS numbers actually end up looking like. RogerBrown didn't even know the name of Piercing Shot as a shot in his 100 talent row. He also wasn't aware that Aimed Shot damage is determined on the shot, not when it lands as of research from 2-ish weeks ago by DracoDraco (which makes it client-side unaffected by latency) then proceeds to complain about latency.

Maybe my mistake but I didn't mention I was quoting a recent ama on reddit by the method guild. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ne_of_the_top/

I am not sure which podcast you are quoting.
Though this is my mistake

Overall I hope that mm and bm have equal oppurtunities and advantages on different fights;I feel you speak as someone who wants to see bm removed or made useless (maybe I am wrong). tldr it's ptr still, the op was asking about hunter playstyle in general. All hunter specs will see increased viability in pve (and pvp) due to general buffs or damage redistributions for both specs in 7.1.5.

[Megotaku77]

I didn't really talk in a personal way? neither did I say bm would be top - If you actually read my post I said that mm or bm will be better on different fights.

On live fights that favor BM favor it by a margin so small it doesn't justify switching specs (H-Odyn, H-Guarm). This is supported by the abysmal representation BM sees even on those fights being hysterically outnumbered by MM parses.

You underestimate the synergy between the class trinket (reduction on aspect of the wild cd) and the massive benefit of the shoulders. I would like to see your evidence to say why bm will be 'bottom' tier as you said in your last post.

I don't underestimate anything. That class trinket reduces the CD on Trueshot which is also further reduced and buffed by MM's T19 bonus. The gear synergy clearly favors MM... by an enormous margin. As to evidence that BM will be bottom tier, it's in the live parse data.

Just do the math. BM is seeing no significant buffs, no QoL changes, and is basically getting the exact same top talent choices as live. Maybe blink strikes is competitive, but the margin is so small it's a maybe. It's getting 2 of its top 3 legendaries nerfed and the belt is probably going to see a nerf in the next PTR cycle since inferior items were already nerfed. It has a crap set bonus among the worst in the game. Other specs (including MM) are seeing buffs to aspects of the game they are weak in (ST for MM, AoE for SPriest for example) while having very strong set bonuses. Yet with a straight face you think BM is going to be competitive with MM? Believe what you want to believe, just like WW Monks believed their good cleave would make up for their poor scaling, bad artifact weapon, and crappy legendaries. Where are they now? Bottom of the barrel.

Maybe my mistake but I didn't mention I was quoting a recent ama on reddit by the method guild. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ne_of_the_top/

I am not sure which podcast you are quoting.

Someone else linked the podcast called Hunting Party. Rogerbrown was a guest saying the same things as that AMA, but going into more detail on his opinions. The absolute most generous assessment of Rogerbrown and Sco would be that their content will be down before set bonuses come into play, so their recommendation to keep both up-to-date comes from a perspective of getting world first without set bonuses. Because once set bonuses are in play, it's not even close. MM utterly humiliates BM.

Overall I hope that mm and bm have equal oppurtunities and advantages on different fights;I feel you speak as someone who wants to see bm removed or made useless (maybe I am wrong). tldr it's ptr still, the op was asking about hunter playstyle in general. All hunter specs will see increased viability in pve (and pvp) due to general buffs or damage redistributions for both specs in 7.1.5.

I have no interest in having BM get removed. I just have what the average WoW player in general completely lacks: a sense of balance and fairness. If BM becomes the top spec, I'll do what Hunters did when BM was the top spec in BC: laugh hysterically at the top of the DPS meter while other players do 100 times the work for the same benefit. BM is idiot-proofed to the point of ridiculousness. When I say it's fair that BM is the worst DPS raiding spec in the game it isn't a vendetta. It's a comment on how its mechanics work compared to other classes. I'll be more than happy to accept top tier DPS for absolutely no effort. I just don't believe Blizzard is as stupid as you seem to think they should be.

[Jayeazy]

The Sidewinders build isn't going anywhere and up until the buff to arcane shot was still competing for the top build. 130% -> 200% on Arcane Shot shouldn't be more than a 3-5% DPS difference and if you're that worried about the RNG you can continue doing the only viable spec on live: Sidewinders. I dislike vulnerable as much as the next hunter, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. Consider your alternatives. Do you really want to multi-dot? Bane? The new Elemental has 2 separate gearing priorities depending on ST or AoE. Look at the disgusting mess blizzard has made of the other ranged specs and be glad vulnerable is the worst we have to deal with.

Have you played ptr? The free cleave that Sidewinders was good for is absolutely neutered. Marked Shot hits for dicks now since it can't be buffed by Vulnerable. That was a direct nerf to Sidewinders builds where it was only so strong because of the guaranteed Vuln buff that SW applied itself vs a decent buff to Arcane Shot build Marked Shot where you merely had some of them line up well enough to chain while the last Vuln buff was still up. So we have a big hit to SW cleave right off the bat.

But let's say you want to cleave anyway with the new SW build. Now you're just resetting Vulnerable every time you use it and losing single target damage, where normally you would literally ignore Marked Shot procs unless you absolutely needed Vulnerable applied. Yea Marked Shot on multiple targets is going to be more total damage than single target but you're sacrificing more priority target damage than before due to that, plus the nerf to SW focus gen meaning you're left with less for Aimed Shot after Marked.

This isn't even considering the butthole violation they're giving us with Barrage behavior on your primary target now identical to live's secondary target, the chance to hit deal. You can literally barrage a single target and hit like twice. Of course it's the spread aoe winner, but you're tanking your damage if you even try to use it on single target. So another chunk of basically free cleave gone right there.

Nothing about our current free cleave build is free anymore. It will literally only be a viable option of it's impossible for multiple targets to be grouped, because otherwise an aoe oriented piercing shot build is probably going to destroy its aoe numbers and a trick shot st build will destroy its single target numbers.

[Megotaku77]

Marked Shot was nerfed by 28%. "It hits for dicks" is the typical delusional hyperbole I've simply come to expect as the norm. This amounts to something like a 15% nerf to cleave/AoE and only for the spread AoE build. I'd wager money at this point my legendary belt + trick shot is going to be better than live at AoE. My sense is people are being blinded by the enormous burst Piercing can do and forgetting it has to outdamage Trick Shot with 1 cast every 30 seconds. The comment about "reducing RNG" was specifically in regards to the single target rotation. The AoE rotation with sidewinders is insane levels of RNG on live currently. Bringing up the sidewinders AOE rotation is talking about something I wasn't discussing to begin with. The bottom line on Sidewinders single target is until the Arcane Shot buff went from 150% to 200%, Sidewinders was still the top DPS choice. Now with a 33% buff to the weakest shot in your rotation it's no longer "viable". Lol, the crap people say with sincerity.

Barrage was already inferior single target. This is nothing new, they're just forcing you to switch away from it instead of doing 90% of AMOC. Volley was already superior on stacked AoE. The only change for a Hunter who knew how their talents worked, by actually playing with them and simming with them, is that Barrage is no longer a jack-of-all-trades talent and has a very specific niche. But by all means. Roll BM. Re-roll Balance. Or Shadow. Or Destro. See you in a week when you realize how good the kit you complain about actually is when performance is on the line.

[skitzin]

Nevermind tuning not being 100% finished, tuning literally hasn't started. No one can answer anything.

People always say this repeatedly every patch and yet oddly enough very little changes at this point. The current patch of PTR is already marked as release so there are going to be fewer changes made going forward.

Additionally, BM did get some buffs but I fell most fights still favour MM. So unless they buff the balls off BM (or nerf MM hard) I don't see it reliably overtaking MM at this point in time.

However, overall I think hunters will still sit around the same level they do currently. Same with fire mages. I just think the gaps between specs will be lower.