7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[Angeredsoul]

Nerfing Pp, our only ST dps option getting nerfed. Awesome.

[Deleted]

Nerfing Pp, our only ST dps option getting nerfed. Awesome.

First, PP is not even the pure ST option, BRW is. Second, number tuning will obviously follow, so nerfing talents is not necessarily bad for overall spec performance. It´s actually good if it gives you choices again.

[Schizoide]

There is no overlap. 0-2 is the way it's done in the battle.net API. When you import a char from armory this is also used by simc.

Here is a random example:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...tor#dZ!0012120

There would obviously be overlap if they were the same format. You need the full url for that format to work, so simcraft knows how to accept it, that's all. The native simcraft format is 0-3.

[gixxpunk]

There would obviously be overlap if they were the same format. You need the full url for that format to work, so simcraft knows how to accept it, that's all.

This is exactly what I have written a few posts ago.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post43866670

[Deleted]

"We're reducing a few effects that inject large amount of resources into the rotation (such as Pestilent Pustules) and increasing overall damage slightly."

Roughly translated to

We're nerfing Pestilent Pustules, Castigator, Infected Claws and Runic Tattoos and giving you another 3% damage buff.

[Piz813]

First, PP is not even the pure ST option, BRW is. Second, number tuning will obviously follow, so nerfing talents is not necessarily bad for overall spec performance. It´s actually good if it gives you choices again.

i agree. not a fan of "cookie cutter" spec where every DK had the same exact talents. Choices are good unless its a fight dependent talent and we have to port to Acherus, swap, then port back into raid.

[Mawnix]

"We're reducing a few effects that inject large amount of resources into the rotation (such as Pestilent Pustules) and increasing overall damage slightly."

Roughly translated to

We're nerfing Pestilent Pustules, Castigator, Infected Claws and Runic Tattoos and giving you another 3% damage buff.

I'm sorry but can you explain to me why you wouldn't want to curb the already absurd amount of RP we generate as Unholy? The amount of Death Coils that pour out is absurd.

Frost has a far better balance of resources--I'm never starved, but I'm never overwhelmed unless I fuck up my rotation.

Unholy? For a spec that has no use of RP outside of DS and DC, it honestly hurts our rotation.

Taking emphasis off a big mechanical issue I've noticed since launch helps our rotation. As for PP, Castigator, and Infected Claws, we don't even know what they're doing yet?

[Deleted]

I'm sorry but can you explain to me why you wouldn't want to curb the already absurd amount of RP we generate as Unholy? The amount of Death Coils that pour out is absurd.

Frost has a far better balance of resources--I'm never starved, but I'm never overwhelmed unless I fuck up my rotation.

Unholy? For a spec that has no use of RP outside of DS and DC, it honestly hurts our rotation.

Taking emphasis off a big mechanical issue I've noticed since launch helps our rotation. As for PP, Castigator, and Infected Claws, we don't even know what they're doing yet?

I didn't say I disagree with it.

I said I have a feeling it'll be another 3% buff.


I'm glad they are doing something about the insane RP generation we have, I just hope the "increasing overall damage slightly" is worth it.

[Mawnix]

I didn't say I disagree with it.

I said I have a feeling it'll be another 3% buff.

I dunno. They said they're using these templates to actively tune. Could be bigger.

If they raised it to 8%~ or something of the sort, depending on where the percentages are going, Unholy and Frost might be doing virtually the same damage.

I honestly see a reduction in the resources we generate as a buff, at least on the RP side.

As for Runes, well, that's an entirely different story.

[Sephirosu]

It's worth using if you like micromanagement, planning and exact timing. If you do it correctly you can push out highest ST DPS.

Mind going over the process then? So far, if I understand correctly, basically you want to be RP capped then use BoS OB to keep the RP constant and then when you can't OB anymore use Empowered/hungering and basically keep doing the same as before all this while sacrificing frost strike and praying to God that you don't need to move.

[madrounds]

Max when you said ring is 2nd best legendary behind bracer, were you talking about Uvanimor or Sephuz?

[Deleted]

Max when you said ring is 2nd best legendary behind bracer, were you talking about Uvanimor or Sephuz?

uvanimor

here are the sims

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...k-ClOb-4g9ErD0

My CS sims will be upgraded with more balanced stats table, but Castigator SiMS are accurate and ring is 2nd best legendary right now on ptr

[Deleted]

T19H 2230021 (default APL): 384.0k
T19H 2210022: 365.9k, 10.0% uptime
T19H 2220022 (HRuneWeapon): 375.9k, 15.1% uptime
T19H 2220022 (Horn+HRuneWeapon): 363.9k, 21.5% uptime

The Default T19H does not have enough Haste to properly utilize BoS (it only has 20%!).
In addition to that, it does not have the Nighthold-Setbonus which scales very good with BOSRA.

30%+ Haste is absolutely needed in order to be able to use Runes and RIME procs efficiently.
In addition to that, the best Legendary's for BoS is the Ring and Belt, especially the Ring is mandatory.
BoS does benefit more from Legendary's than any Frost-Spec.
DPS-increase per Haste (Scaling) is exceptional below ~30%.

Storm-Breath is the best Burst-Spec (ST and MT) for Frost DK's.
BOSRA has the potential to achieve the best sustained DPS overall.
Storm-Breath and OBFOG will be good M+ Specs, versatile with good MT and ST DPS (less AoE than FSc but a lot higher ST).
Thats my observation on the PTR with Nighthold Set-Bonus and Ring+Belt (29% Haste and 30% Crit).

see here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Necrofantasia

other things:
- Frozen Pulse is a complete waste with BoS, uptime is non-existent.
- Its very hard to apply Icy Talons during BoS, its basically only possible during HRW (I call that "Burst BoS").
.. If the fight lasts longer than a minute, I would not pick Icy Talons with BoS.

[DagrDK]

@DreadfulDave this was my question in the DK discord. If we are not able to get Breath going for the requisite 90 seconds between cd's, is IT/RA a better choice if we can roll Breath for say 30 seconds? Right now with how hard breath hits on ptr, it is definitely the go-to. I can see them adjusting damage in the first week of raiding as it is super strong right now.

[Deleted]

@DreadfulDave this was my question in the DK discord. If we are not able to get Breath going for the requisite 90 seconds between cd's, is IT/RA a better choice if we can roll Breath for say 30 seconds? Right now with how hard breath hits on ptr, it is definitely the go-to. I can see them adjusting damage in the first week of raiding as it is super strong right now.

I tested many different Specs, including BoS in combination with Icy Talons and/or Frozen Pulse.
BoS hits like a truck, hence uptime should be as high as possible. The IT/FP Builds where always noticeably behind the other builds.
When it comes to Horn of Winter vs Freezing Fog, its situasional.

- HoW has a low CD and is good to fill in the holes when there is need for an Obliterate but there are no Runes available.
..It effectively has a rather big impact on uptime and should always be used on CD.

- Freezing Fog increases overall cleave/AoE DPS, all above mentioned BoS-Builds generate a huge amount of RIME procs.
..It has a good synergy with the Nighthold-Setbonuses.

Conclusion: Single-Target = HoW, Multi-Target = Freezing Fog.

Murderous Efficiency is becoming very effective once you reach high haste and crit.
I had around 30% crit and haste on the PTR and it had a big impact on uptime.

Icy Talons however, can only be obtained outside of BoS. BoS typically has about ~50-60% uptime during the fight.
Its a strong Talent but 50% (or even less) uptime put its behind Murderous Efficiency.

Notice: The lack of Icy Talons is one of the main reasons why Haste is so important for BoS-Builds.

[Schizoide]

I simmed with the T19M profile also and was unable to make BoS worth using over Obliteration (1 target) or GA (2+ targets). The T19M profile is also missing the set bonus and has no legendaries, though-- maybe that's why?

[Deleted]

I simmed with the T19M profile also and was unable to make BoS worth using over Obliteration (1 target) or GA (2+ targets). The T19M profile is also missing the set bonus and has no legendaries, though-- maybe that's why?

Well, BoS is highly depending on proper Legendary's.

[Schizoide]

Can you briefly describe the dependencies required to make BoS builds work? I'm already testing with the 3310032 talent build, but no legendaries and without the T19 set bonus. The T19M profile has 24.36% haste.

T19M 2230021: 430.1k
T19M 3310032: 406.0k
T19M 3310022: 398.7k

[Deleted]

I tested many different Specs, including BoS in combination with Icy Talons and/or Frozen Pulse.
BoS hits like a truck, hence uptime should be as high as possible. The IT/FP Builds where always noticeably behind the other builds.
When it comes to Horn of Winter vs Freezing Fog, its situasional.

- HoW has a low CD and is good to fill in the wholes when there is need for an Obliterate but there are no Runes available.
..It effectively has a rather big impact on uptime and should always be used on CD.

- Freezing Fog increases overall cleave/AoE DPS, all above mentioned BoS-Builds generate a huge amount of RIME procs.
..It has a good synergy with the Nighthold-Setbonuses.

Conclusion: Single-Target = HoW, Multi-Target = Freezing Fog.

Murderous Efficiency is becoming very effective once you reach high haste and crit.
I had around 30% crit and haste on the PTR and it had a big impact on uptime.

Icy Talons however, can only be obtained outside of BoS. BoS typically has about ~50-60% uptime during the fight.
Its a strong Talent but 50% (or even less) uptime put its behind Murderous Efficiency.

Notice: The lack of Icy Talons is one of the main reasons why Haste is so important for BoS-Builds.

but at what bosses, could you use breath? its like with our speed, if the tank is moving quickly we dont be able to maintain high bos uptimes...

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

that pretty amazing considering a boss fight like Nythendra (extremely limited movement) the MAX damage logs for that ilvl is 260k. you must be a god among men since it is "shit easy" and you are doing 20% more damage than the MAX log.



....well either that or you are full of shit.

Shit buddy, who needs to go to the dead sea when we have all the salt we could possibly need with you

In any case, i basically dont give a shit about raiding, my 300+k happened on final boss of nelth lair. Had no BL cos we wiped once before it.

And im definitely no god, however i would like to submit a reverse hypothesis... youre just really fucking shite if you only pull 260k on a minimal movement fight. learn to use your CDs effectively, or maybe improve rotation or someshit.

either way, i wouldnt have given you shit if you were being a sarcastic fuck towards me :P

glfh