Liberals should watch this video

[alexw]

Yeah, there is only one nation that spends more than even one of our two ways. We spend double and get half the results. Luckily, Obama fixed it all though, and now everything is cheap and effective, right? What's that you say? What do you mean only addressing 10% of the cost (the insurance) is a poor method to bring overall costs down? Saying that is akin to denying that the best way to get car repair costs down, is to regulate car insurance. Wait a minute...

I'm not sure where you get the idea from that I agree with Obamacare????? The best I can say about it is covers people who were not covered before.

I'm for medicare for all, with cost controls, the works. Force the costs down since the market won't.

[Elba]

Yeah, there is only one nation that spends more than even one of our two ways. We spend double and get half the results. Luckily, Obama fixed it all though, and now everything is cheap and effective, right? What's that you say? What do you mean only addressing 10% of the cost (the insurance) is a poor method to bring overall costs down? Saying that is akin to denying that the best way to get car repair costs down, is to regulate car insurance. Wait a minute...

That's no Obama's fault. If Republicans were actually capable of bipartisanship and compromise you could have working, cheap universal health care yesterday.

[Draco-Onis]

No, I didn't expect magic. The bill is a piece of shit and everyone knows it. They just had to pass SOMETHING after chasing their tail for two years. It's a moot point anyway, it's headed for the trash on January 21st.

It is such a piece of shit that republicans are repealing it but plan to keep it alive for years because they totally have something to replace it with.

[melodramocracy]

Be prepared to watch what grown ups do with a majority

We've been through that story already, not very long ago in fact. Nothing noteworthy came of it aside from a misguided land war. Keep clicking those heels though.

[Bodakane]

Goddamn I'm soooooooooooooooo fucking tired of cons being so ridiculous and hypocritical about this stuff.

They call libs every name in the book, but when libs rightly point out that a vote for Trump is a pro vote for xenophobia, bigotry, the alt right, etc. they start crying about being called names. Especially when that is not the reason we lost.

[Glorious Leader]

We've been through that story already, not very long ago in fact. Nothing noteworthy came of it aside from a misguided land war. Keep clicking those heels though.

Their was a financial meltdown and recession as well. I wouldn't say nothing noteworthy happened, just not very many positives.

[Tijuana]

Survive the GOP? Those policies won't survive Trump. He just lied about them. Him putting medicare privatization advocate in charge of the program as Health Secretary tells you everything you need to know.

But in a way I'm kinda glad. It will give the people of the old white peoples party exactly what they voted for.

Solution based legislation?

See, this is what I'm talking about. You just assume privatization is bad, and somehow a rip off. But, if you were considering two jobs, you would take the one with the 401k over the pension. Because you know actually getting the money and investing it yourself is safer than relying on some charlatan to manage the account with success. Even if he isn't incompetent, it requires growth to actually work. Medicare is no different than Social Security in this way.

Why do Liberals just assume any change is bad, and any money not held by the government is bad?

[buck008]

To be clear he's a post Keynesian. His economic adviser is prof Stephanie Kelton of the uniercity of missouri at kansas city. Bernie himself is what would have been called a new deal democrat like Roosevelt.

Fair point. I think that was more detail than the conversation called for thus far, I was shooting for an accessible name. I don't think it weakens my point at all to compare him to FDR, when that is the most well known example in American politics of applied Keynesian theory and also happens to be wildly successful in practice.

[Azadina]

He was trying to reach across the isle and compromise?

Spitting in the face of the opposition as a new president isn't exactly the wisest thing to do.

In hindsight he should have done just that. When the opposition is the kind who will spit in your face and laugh, should you try to compromise with them. And blame all the faults on you for doing said compromise.

[Tijuana]

I'm not sure where you get the idea from that I agree with Obamacare????? The best I can say about it is covers people who were not covered before.

I'm for medicare for all, with cost controls, the works. Force the costs down since the market won't.

My questions were rhetorical, to the audience, not you specifically. Poorly worded, sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

What "failed hard"?

The 1970s.

/10chars

[drakensoul]

No, I didn't expect magic. The bill is a piece of shit and everyone knows it. They just had to pass SOMETHING after chasing their tail for two years. It's a moot point anyway, it's headed for the trash on January 21st.

I'm curious what's so 'piece of shit' about it. Not talking points, but actual experience with it.

Do you have any first hand experience with medicine? Are you a physician, therapist, hospital secretary, social worker, nurse, or anyone else with first hand knowledge of how hospitals and outpatient clinics work?

Much in the vein of your attitude toward "liberals," I'm genuinely interested in the real facts and ideas. Not dismissive rhetoric.

[Tijuana]

Implying there are no conservative Democrats. Right.

True, there were some fakers then. Obviously nobody who voted for the bill is a Conservative, however.

[Elegiac]

Solution based legislation?

See, this is what I'm talking about. You just assume privatization is bad, and somehow a rip off. But, if you were considering two jobs, you would take the one with the 401k over the pension. Because you know actually getting the money and investing it yourself is safer than relying on some charlatan to manage the account with success. Even if he isn't incompetent, it requires growth to actually work. Medicare is no different than Social Security in this way.

Why do Liberals just assume any change is bad, and any money not held by the government is bad?

Largely because healthcare funding, being a non-optional market in terms of participation, doesn't lend itself well to privatization.

[Glorious Leader]

The 1970s.

/10chars

what specifically failed about the 1970s? You claimed "we tried that shit in the 1970's and it failed hard" what "shit" was that?

[alexw]

Most of what Bernie's platform was ripped straight from 1960s sit ins. We did all that shit in the 1970s and it failed hard.

Oh boy.... you do realize the problem with the 1970's were the multiple oil embargo's?

[Glorious Leader]

Fair point. I think that was more detail than the conversation called for thus far, I was shooting for an accessible name. I don't think it weakens my point at all to compare him to FDR, when that is the most well known example in American politics of applied Keynesian theory and also happens to be wildly successful in practice.

A president so loved they literally wrote legislation after his passing to make sure they never had another 3 term president.

[Jakisuaki]

Something I need to understand

Why does mmo-champion hate liberals so much?

Why do they apply the term to such a wide demographic of people? Do they seriously think all liberals are the same?

[Tijuana]

He was trying to reach across the isle and compromise?

Spitting in the face of the opposition as a new president isn't exactly the wisest thing to do.

Your tin foil is showing. You are literally claiming that Obamacare was fashioned to appease people who didn't cast a single vote for it. Even if that was Obama's plan, and I personally do not think he is that dumb, clearly it would have been a massive failure to both appease those who didn't vote for it, and to also not know he didn't need their votes. I'm pretty sure Obama can count to 60 just fine on his own.

[Shadowmelded]

I think her position on Syria also didn't help, it made it very easy to compare her position which was basically "Let's go to war with Russia!" to Trumps position of "Let's not go to war with Russia!"

I wouldn't agree that a no-fly zone inevitably leads to war with Russia. Something has/had to be done about Syria and a no-fly zone is at least a decent starting point to stop the double-tap bombing the Russians have been doing. The goal being to prevent the immediate loss of life.

[Torto]

Facts don't belong in 2016!! We live in a time where people are regressing back to believing only what they can see in front of their stupid faces IF they agree with what is shown. That depends on how they feel about it. "I don't agree, it doesn't suit my agenda/feelings ERGO it isn't real"... That old chestnut.

Okay, seeing as everyone loves facts. I'll stick with Australia because we have 'free' healthcare.

Total healthcare cost 2015 $161 billion, which equates to roughly $7000 for every man, woman and child per year (that wonderchart is old btw). That is around 10% of GDP. Health costs are rising approx. 3% every year and will rise exponentially due to all the baby boomers getting old.

I was pretty healthy that year, I know I didn't use $7k worth of healthcare, but I had to shell the money out anyway. Isn't socialism just wonderful!