Does the M+ timer make it more fun for you?

[Allenseiei]

For me I don't really enjoy the timer at all. WoW has always been a more deliberate, strategic game for me. If i wanted fast-paced stuff I'd probably play Overwatch or something else.

You can technically just do M+ without the timer and get your chest, but good luck finding a group to play it that way.


When I originally heard of M+ I was expecting more of a tactical challenge like old school Magister's terrace where it was about CC, interrupts, focusing mobs, and then dealing with the affix mechanics. Not "go go go gogogogo gogogo" playstyle, where it basically comes down to kiting and running though and throwing AOE stuns.

The timer makes you strategize where to use what to be the most efficient posible. It forces you to deal aproprietly with the content. If you removed the timer, it would be extremely easy to reach high levels of mythic +, since the only way to stop you is making the bosses unkillable with your gear.
Mythic + is a system that forces you to eventually fail, restrategize and try again.

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Timers are antisocial because it encourages lack of talking. So yah its a terrible idea.

High level mythic + are designed to talk, just not in chat but in voice coms. People communicate a lot more because you need to keep your group informed of what you are going to do.

[Notdev]

Okay, if the timer didn't mean anything.. how does someone "pass on" to the next level? Just by completion? Yeah.. that doesn't work. I don't know how you make it challenging without the timer. Without the timer any group with x ilvl could all but guarantee completion up to pretty high m+ levels just by saving cds for every trash pack and heroism+CDs for every boss, having tons of room for error, and just suicide running until they eventually kill stuff.

With the current level of rewards they give and the way they are currently set up, the timer is 100% necessary.

The timer IS the challenge.

[Super Kami Dende]

The timers are meant for you to push yourself. If there were no timers then you would just treat every pack like a boss fight and slowly crawl through to the end.

[HumbleDuck]

I hate timers, I do not think they add any fun to any type of content.

[Sierra85]

i love the timers and wish they would use them in other aspects of the game. e.g. quests

[jaakkeli]

I've solo pugged everything up to M+ 11 when everyone else is in the guild was tied up or busy.

Ive done plenty of full pug +M that had social aspects while still hitting timers and extra chests.

You're full of shit. You did not have an old school dungeon socializing experience in mythic+ pugs (unless you on purpose did some "let's take undergeared chars to weekly knowing it will take a long time and creative play to get past certain trash packs" pug). It simply does not happen when you're going for timers.

You did not stop and start discussing the ccs needed for the next pack and then end up chatting about class differences and end up chaining your discussion to world politics for the next 15 minutes and then continue to complete the timer. You used to have random discussion happen all the time back in the old days of dungeons that used to have big obstacle packs that took planning but you weren't on timer so you stopped, chatted about the pull and then accidental chat over other things happened.

The odds are 100 % that you're another post-Wrath-baby who never experienced dungeons in their old pre-cross-server, pre-LFG mode. That's the only reason you can keep claiming your bullshit about having a "social experience" in a mythic+: you've literally NEVER had an old school experience in a dungeon so you don't know that you're not having it in mythic+.

Not true really, I have made a bunch of new friends doing them. Be good at what you do and people will say hey, I'd like to run more with you. Friend added, run things with them, BS and make groups for whatever.

Another person completely missing the point. In other words, you socialized AFTER a dungeon or some. Not DURING. You had an evening of "stfu gogo" mode and then you maybe socialized with some guy. Yeah, sure, I've added SOME people from mythic+, AFTER runs.

Again, you most likely did not play the old school game before cross-server and lfg ruined all the social aspects in WoW. You didn't have the experience of dungeons before they got turned into consumable stfu gogo chain run farm and gtfo content so you don't know what you're missing.

And I sure as fuck do not want to get to know people on the basis of "if someone did good on the meters I'll add them". The thing is, DPS can be fixed, sense of humor and compatible personalities cannot, and a lot of friends on my list that have lasted for years started off people who were fun company but bad at the game. Most of them have gotten better over time and some turned into real life friends. That kind of potential friends you entirely miss if you're speed farming mythic+.

I mean, seriously, you are not socializing if you're making friends based on dungeon performance. You're not even making friends. You're just a spec and potential numbers for those people and they're only a spec and numbers to you. If next patch you take a break or your spec gets nerfed to the ground they'll not be so interested in being "friends" anymore.

[Allenseiei]

Another person completely missing the point. In other words, you socialized AFTER a dungeon or some. Not DURING. You had an evening of "stfu gogo" mode and then you maybe socialized with some guy. Yeah, sure, I've added SOME people from mythic+, AFTER runs.

Again, you most likely did not play the old school game before cross-server and lfg ruined all the social aspects in WoW. You didn't have the experience of dungeons before they got turned into consumable stfu gogo chain run farm and gtfo content so you don't know what you're missing.

And I sure as fuck do not want to get to know people on the basis of "if someone did good on the meters I'll add them". The thing is, DPS can be fixed, sense of humor and compatible personalities cannot, and a lot of friends on my list that have lasted for years started off people who were fun company but bad at the game. Most of them have gotten better over time and some turned into real life friends. That kind of potential friends you entirely miss if you're speed farming mythic+.

I mean, seriously, you are not socializing if you're making friends based on dungeon performance. You're not even making friends. You're just a spec and potential numbers for those people and they're only a spec and numbers to you. If next patch you take a break or your spec gets nerfed to the ground they'll not be so interested in being "friends" anymore.

So you deny the fact that maybe those "compatible personalities" can be min maxing your character? If a person likes to do difficult content, you search for people who also do. Why would you search for people who don't share your interests? Wouldn't you have contradictions in what you want to do ingame? First impresions are important.

What i'm reading here is that you are pushing onto others your own tastes in people. You like funny and carefree people that share interests with you. Others like people who like to compete and try to excell. Keeping connections between people you have no common interests in the game is really hard, unless you have other things you do together.


I'll show a little example in the beta of legion. We had a 4 man group premade from our guild, but we needed a healer. We invited a random paladin tank from trade chat to come with us. We went to do mythic + with her and she was competent and a good player. I added her to my bnet and kept calling her when we ran mythic +. Legion came out, and she became our healer (not from our server btw).Because she was a good healer. Eventually, from doing things together, we shared more things, got to know her better and all. We now meet up in Seoul every now and then to chat all of us together. We also go each week the same 5 to mythic + to this day running 15+.
That was a friendship that came from "making friends based on dungeon performance" that works. What you need is to find people who share interests, no matter what they are. Mythic + are usually for people who prioritize performance(the higher you go the easier to find), so it's easy to find people who think alike. If you don't, its like trying to be friends with a person that all he does is sports and all you do is read, with the lack of shared events you will drift to being aquaintances and not friends.

[Deleted]

I don't raid nor do i really have time for them. so M+ dungeons give me a good chance to still have some rewarding content .
As mentioned there's not much of socializing going around anymore like in the old days.
Like the only sentences you'll read in M+ now are : Hi / hey ( when people join ) , All ready ? ( before you put in the key ) , ffs you noob learn to heal , do more dps because what you do is pathetic , ugh we didn't get 3 chest because of player x , thx for the group goodbye. Pretty much 99% of M+ only has these lines

[Allenseiei]

I don't raid nor do i really have time for them. so M+ dungeons give me a good chance to still have some rewarding content .
As mentioned there's not much of socializing going around anymore like in the old days.
Like the only sentences you'll read in M+ now are : Hi / hey ( when people join ) , All ready ? ( before you put in the key ) , ffs you noob learn to heal , do more dps because what you do is pathetic , ugh we didn't get 3 chest because of player x , thx for the group goodbye. Pretty much 99% of M+ only has these lines

Do you know what they used to say in TBC hc's? The exact same things. Except maybe add: "mage(not even using a name) sheeps that guy, rouge saps the other" and everyone is silent the rest of the way.

[Kokolums]

Fun in an MMO is about socializing with hundreds of other gamers in the game world. That was AMAZING in vanilla and bc. That died in that garbage expac called wrath and its been dead ever since. Its an insult to MMOs to call this an MMO.

[TheWorkingTitle]

For me I don't really enjoy the timer at all. WoW has always been a more deliberate, strategic game for me. If i wanted fast-paced stuff I'd probably play Overwatch or something else.

You can technically just do M+ without the timer and get your chest, but good luck finding a group to play it that way.


When I originally heard of M+ I was expecting more of a tactical challenge like old school Magister's terrace where it was about CC, interrupts, focusing mobs, and then dealing with the affix mechanics. Not "go go go gogogogo gogogo" playstyle, where it basically comes down to kiting and running though and throwing AOE stuns.

I get where you're coming from OP. I prefer the difficulty to come from the strategy involved, not how fast you can speed up the gameplan through mobility. Don't think Mythic+ doesn't require strategy though. Despite having to run and kite, you still have to deal with all the mob/boss mechanics, as well as cc, interrupt, focus mobs, etc. It's difficult all the same, just in a different way.

I wish there was mythic+15 dungeons available as a difficulty without there needing to be a time limit. Sure, there's a few groups out there that just want to complete it, but that's a needle in a haystack. Having the difficulty available at all times (without having to do previous runs) would be much preferable to me.

[Deleted]

Okay, if the timer didn't mean anything.. how does someone "pass on" to the next level? Just by completion? Yeah.. that doesn't work. I don't know how you make it challenging without the timer. Without the timer any group with x ilvl could all but guarantee completion up to pretty high m+ levels just by saving cds for every trash pack and heroism+CDs for every boss, having tons of room for error, and just suicide running until they eventually kill stuff.

With the current level of rewards they give and the way they are currently set up, the timer is 100% necessary.

The timer IS the challenge.

Don't know how to make it challenging without the timer? I take it you've never tried mythic raiding then, or ran any of the heroic dungeons back in the Burning Crusade, or even the early Cataclysm dungeons.

[jaakkeli]

So you deny the fact that maybe those "compatible personalities" can be min maxing your character?

I'm a pretty passionate min maxer.

If a person likes to do difficult content, you search for people who also do.

Most of the mythic+ people do can't be classified as "difficult content" at all. At this point everything below trying to make 2 chests on a 10+ is trivial content. Most of the time spent playing in mythic+ is farming.

What i'm reading here is that you are pushing onto others your own tastes in people. You like funny and carefree people that share interests with you.

You just made this up.

Right now I'm hanging out as a social ex-raider in a guild, doing some random mythic+ since my work isn't really compatible with raid schedules. I know dozens of people who do proper dps for a high mythic and some of them are really fun company, some not at all. It doesn't really tell anything about someone's personality or sense of humor. (This has been a really fun way of playing the game, by the way, but it might not last as mythic raid farming is outgearing me now and I'm a pretty competitive person who doesn't enjoy feeling boosted.)

What you need is to find people who share interests, no matter what they are.

If people are looking for the same run that's kind of given already.

Mythic + are usually for people who prioritize performance(the higher you go the easier to find),

Not really, mythic+ just has certain performance requirements that you need to fill.

[Revi]

I'd prefer more challenging dungeons rather than timed, but I would be okey with them if there wasn't such a huge discrepancy in how the different affixes(and combination of affixes) affect the time they take.

[Notdev]

Don't know how to make it challenging without the timer? I take it you've never tried mythic raiding then, or ran any of the heroic dungeons back in the Burning Crusade, or even the early Cataclysm dungeons.

Mythic raiding is most of what I do (see sig). Also raiding is fundamentally different from M+ and shouldn't be really compared. I mean, you can make a 5 man difficulty that just has +100% damage and HP.. oh wait, that's what M+ eventually becomes.

Cataclysm/BC Heroics were only difficult when undergeared or uncoordinated. If you tuned current 5 mans for needing 20-30 more ilvls at launch they would still become trivial, just a bit later in the cycle when more people geared up. Hence the M+ model.

Karazhan in appropriate gear was a hell of a challenge. However, like just about all content that once was current, people overgear it and it becomes trivial. M+ keeps up with that. Nothing else in this game every really did.

[Deleted]

the timers are there to make it reasonable, not to be fun.
without the timer mythic + couldnt drop as good loot as it does right now. without the timer it would either have a weekly lockout or drop 850 max. both options suck so i take that timer.

[Deleted]

Mythic raiding is most of what I do (see sig). Also raiding is fundamentally different from M+ and shouldn't be really compared. I mean, you can make a 5 man difficulty that just has +100% damage and HP.. oh wait, that's what M+ eventually becomes.

Cataclysm/BC Heroics were only difficult when undergeared or uncoordinated. If you tuned current 5 mans for needing 20-30 more ilvls at launch they would still become trivial, just a bit later in the cycle when more people geared up. Hence the M+ model.

Karazhan in appropriate gear was a hell of a challenge. However, like just about all content that once was current, people overgear it and it becomes trivial. M+ keeps up with that. Nothing else in this game every really did.

Raiding is not different enough that it can't be compared in the sense that you don't need a timer for it to be challenging. As you yourself stated, Karazhan in the appropriate gear is a challenge, so why does Mythic plus which scales upward in difficulty need timers to be challenging?

The current trash mobs are designed to be grouped up and aoe'd down, with the occasional interrupt here and there, and possibly doing so a bit more carefully depending on the weekly affixes. But even with raging where you would think you would have to single-target, the tactic is for the tank to kite them with the help of stuns and snares.

Add aoe-resistance to nearly all trash mobs, give them proper abilities that needs to be avoided and handled in different ways, make crowd control a requirement and the means of how you pull the packs important. If you have to save up all your cooldowns to down a group of trash mobs you're not going to have the damage required to down the bosses anyway, so no timer is needed.

[Jakexe]

I don't like time limit mechanics is basically any game, that goes for M+ too of course. Mostly for the fact that I've failed dozens of M+ timers due to things completely outside our powers to limit. Example, someone dc'ing before the last boss and then getting ported to the dungeon entrance when they log back in.

That being said M+ would need a total redesign to remove timers and for all practical purposes the timer fits the concept well.

[Butosai]

Much like Blizzard doesn't have a problem with people chaining off mythic + non stop daily. I don't see what the problem would be with letting the group that wants to keep waiting 10 minutes for lust to do that over and over. If you want to spend 8 hours in a dungeon, good luck.

Because that entirely removes the skill requirement

[Orangetai420]

Not at all, it encourages a style of gameplay that I don't enjoy. I wanted the mythic + system to be 5 man raiding, not challenge modes 2.0 (with loot).

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the timers are there to make it reasonable, not to be fun.
without the timer mythic + couldnt drop as good loot as it does right now. without the timer it would either have a weekly lockout or drop 850 max. both options suck so i take that timer.

That's fair.
Personally I would rather have a weekly lockout, to each their own.