Liberals should watch this video

[Tijuana]

Ignoring, of course, the fact that this is the same trend that was occurring prior to the ACA's implementation.

Really, all it's doing is just exposing the utter abortion that a privately administered health insurance system represents.

I actually support single payer, based on our current model of healthcare delivery having no competition or choice. But, nobody thinks Obamacare is good man....nobody.

[schwarzkopf]

Guess I'll take your word for it.

No need to, that's the cool thing about facts. He posts the statements from original sources, with references - you can literally check him out at every step.

[Tijuana]

When haven't you been at war as commanded by Republican warmongers? Trying to break the record of Roman empire?

We are the most benign empire in history. We have taken no land.

[schwarzkopf]

Yes please point out their facts,

On which topic, there is a crapload of facts out there - need you to be more specific.

[buck008]

Yes please point out their facts, all they(and you) were doing was insulting people...

The problem that you are going to run into with this particular argument that you are going to attempt here is that you are only going to accept things as fact if they agree with you. Otherwise they are just posting propaganda or talking points which also aren't constructive. It's a nice way to insulate yourself from anything that might be vaguely challenging to your opinions. That's why you feel so comfortable dismissing all liberals so casually.

[Shadowmelded]

We are the most benign empire in history. We have taken no land.

..... what?

[Elegiac]

I actually support single payer, based on our current model of healthcare delivery having no competition or choice. But, nobody thinks Obamacare is good man....nobody.

Most people like most parts of the ACA, or at least think it's a good start for further reform.

There's a reason health insurers are lobbying against a blanket repeal of the act.

[schwarzkopf]

We are the most benign empire in history. We have taken no land.

I'll have to remember the next time someone comes into my home, takes all my stuff, shoots my wife and one of my kids - then leaves. That they are benign.

[Elegiac]

We are the most benign empire in history. We have taken no land.

Ignoring the fact that Manifest Destiny is the American equivalent to Lebensraum, sure.

[buck008]

We are the most benign empire in history. We have taken no land.

That's an interesting point of view.

[alexw]

There was a decade that only had one problem? News to me. I guess my history teachers spent time yapping on stuff that wasn't needed. We also were at war, for example.

The availability and price of oil affects everything, and I mean everything. Here is what happened to the price of oil over time -



Now tell me what do you think the price of the worlds most important feedstock increasing five fold would have on an economy? From inflation, to availability of goods, to industrial action by workers?

You will also note the price peaked just before Reagan took over. There is your Reagan miracle in that singe graph. He got lucky and took over just as the price started to fall again. That there is your supposed Reaganomics miracle. Nothing but a fairy tale that never existed which covers up the real truth.

[Azadina]

We are the most benign empire in history. We have taken no land.

In Alt-right version of revisionist history? Do you wish to lock your answer, or change it?

[schwarzkopf]

That's an interesting point of view.

It is incorrect twice, and internally inconsistent ... pretty damn impressive for that short couple of statements

[Tijuana]

Privatization of medicare is bad. There is zero doubt about it. Medicare is way better than the private insurance system at controlling costs despite it treating the oldest most sickest demographic in society by far. Costs will escalate much faster if it is privatized and the healthcare crisis will get worse. There really is no doubt about it. I suggest you go read up on the reasons why the private insurance system is so costly because right now you are arguing blind.

You don't even know what I think. I just asked you what you think. We will get you through this liberal struggle though! I am committed to helping you!

Personally, I support HSAs, with government contributions to both the investment and policy of those who cannot afford them. There is no bureaucracy, operating in the realm of financial matters, in the history of mankind, that managed anything better than the private sector could have. It simply cannot exist.

- - - Updated - - -

In point of fact, the recession is basically over. Economic indicators have been trending upwards for like two years now. You've just ignored that fact.

63 million voters, many of them Democrats, disagree.

- - - Updated - - -

This is what they all do, they're giant hypocrites and liars, but I sometime wonder why people like you argue with them. I'm not trying to insult you its just a lot of wasted effort, they aren't looking to discuss anything, they don't go in these threads with an open mind, they just want to shitpost and shut down discussion,they aren't worth the effort. Libs are a bunch of weasels, and even worse most of the ones on this forum are basically shut ins that have no experience in the real world. They are simply a waste of time, a couple posters you're talking to in this thread in particular are some of the most intellectually dishonest people I've ever talked with, there's no point in expecting them to argue in good faith.

Because when the smart ones come along, who can articulate their ideas, and are willing to discuss and debate with intellectual honestly, it's sooooo rewarding to discuss it with them. This only happens about once a week though, sadly. And to be fair, I slip in to their ways a lot myself, trolling them and the like.

[Glorious Leader]

You don't even know what I think. I just asked you what you think. We will get you through this liberal struggle though! I am committed to helping you!

So basically if evidence/data or facts inform what you think then it's not really what you think in fact you can't think at all. I have been incredible slow to catch on to this absurd display of POEs law but it's become increasingly clear you are not serious.

[alexw]

See but he didnt identify what failed. Is he arguing stagflation?

That's what I took him to mean since he was replying to a post about Keynesian economics. That of course was a result of cost push inflation from the 1970's rocketing oil price.

[drakensoul]

I actually support single payer, based on our current model of healthcare delivery having no competition or choice. But, nobody thinks Obamacare is good man....nobody.

Mmhmm. I'm not sure that your sentiments are as widely shared by the public as you think. That might be what you've been told by your favorite news outlets, but I'm not getting the impression that you have any personal experience with healthcare. And as I said before, this is obviously a very young first step in what needs to ultimately be a vastly different system than the one we previously employed. Again, change is slow and riddled with resistance and obstructionism.

My sentiments are widely shared by the public. The bill has caused coverage to go down, and premiums and deductibles to go up. Many people on it have never had coverage this poor in their life. And, it's even hurting insurers, who cannot choose to both stay in the exchange, and stay in business. So, they are leaving in droves. The plan is a failure. It's an example of pin head politicians, who know nothing except raising money and getting votes, getting WAY in over their heads. Furthermore, the one bright spot, newly insured that did without before, consists 80% of people who already qualifed for Medicaid, but just never applied for it. So, the bill literally accomplished nothing, unless your goals were to get ran out of Washington, cost everyone a bunch of money, and extend the second worst recession in history to last longer than the worst recession in history. GG

I mean I've read all of those things in other forum posts and talking point websites but in my personal experience as a practicing physician those statements are more akin to exactly that... talking point propaganda. Not that my personal experience is the independent and unbiased metric by which success is judged, but I've got more experience with it than the average person considering I admit and follow 23 average people in the hospital every day, seven days a week, 30 weeks out of the year.

It really boils down to whether or not you think universal healthcare should exist. If you do and you work in the system, it's easy to see what this 'step' in the process is. And it is a step in said process.

The number of uninsured people that I see in the hospital has statistically decreased, and my group admits all unassigned patients. That's a stand-in metric for what the point of the ACA was, and it succeeded in that first step. After the ACA, there are significantly fewer patients who are uninsured. And yes, part of the necessary other side is that for universal healthcare to exist some people end up paying more. That's just reality. Extending social systems to others for free or for low cost increases the cost to the group as a whole.

I'm not sure where you got the statistic that 80% of the people who obtained coverage under the ACA were previously eligible for medicaid, which just as an aside required them to be disabled (dialysis, HIV, genetic disorders, some others), pregnant, or a child, but I would contest that for the obvious reason that it is nonsense.

I pay significantly more for my health insurance after the ACA than before, and I have an HSA with HDHP. Over $300/month. I'm okay with that. Not because I'm super altruistic, but because I think not recognizing that universal healthcare is the morally correct choice is like staking your claim in a slave owning plantation. Or thinking coal mines are going to re-open and we're back in 1965.

If you don't agree that universal healthcare should exist; well, then I suppose you would think the bill is a total failure. I can say that it is more rare that one of my colleagues feels the ACA has been damaging to healthcare rather than good, but it does require you to step back and see the big picture. The big picture is more The Jetsons than Blazing Saddles. But once again, getting there isn't a singular piece of rapid-acting legislation.

The first cut is the deepest.

[Elegiac]

Personally, I support HSAs, with government contributions to both the investment and policy of those who cannot afford them. There is no bureaucracy, operating in the realm of financial matters, in the history of mankind, that managed anything better than the private sector could have. It simply cannot exist.

There are in fact many instances of the public sector managing things better than the private sector, but the important distinction here is the 'things' in question. Public goods like, say, utilities are inherently monopolistic and better administered (from a consumer standpoint) by the public sector, whereas private goods like consumer products tend to fare better in a more open market.

This also ignores the fact that private and public are not mutually exclusive (dirigism, for instance) and that there is functionally no difference between a bureaucracy and a corporation, save that the latter's concern is profit generation and the former's being the service being provided.

[Shadowmelded]

This is sort of a similar situation to the Russia trying to insert a no-fly zone in Israel.

How do you think that would go for them?

Probably pretty badly for reasons the US wouldn't suffer from (in my laymen opinion). Lack of support and being outmatched militarily. Now I'm not pro-war or anything, I just don't think a no-fly zone would inevitably lead to war.

[Elegiac]

63 million voters, many of them Democrats, disagree.

Clearly said 63 million voters don't understand the definition of a recession.