Legion PVP *LOSES* players, and does that faster than WoD

[Kagthul]

Nothing will be able to convince me that the pvp in this game is not garbage. Noticed it went to complete shit after Wrath. I realize I'm probably rage posting after a fucking Ret Paladin killed me in 10 seconds as a Guardian Druid when I had 2 stacks of ironfur already up, Survival Instincts popped, Barkskin and my artifact going. Like what the hell is the point of being a tank spec in pvp when I get shredded like tissue paper yet dps have better survival, heals and damage? They gave everyone too much of everything.

Make tanks actually tanky and not have much damage (during pvp), take away the survival of dps and let them just deal damage, and have healers heal. Fuck.

Prepared for incoming shit, bring it!

was this wPvP or instanced? Makes a big difference. wPvP is completely whack.

[Mafic]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=2#post-27

PVP ladders collapsed in the first season!

Look at the title allocation to have an idea. This is worse than WotLK season 1 easily.

[Wondercrab]

I'd be curious to know how many people are doing regular PvP by comparison. I have no clue how it is in a competitive environment, since I've felt that WoW has always been a pretty terrible game in that regard, but I've found random BGs etc. a lot more fun in Legion than prior expansions thanks to the gear normalisation and reduction in CC.

[Kagthul]

I'd be curious to know how many people are doing regular PvP by comparison. I have no clue how it is in a competitive environment, since I've felt that WoW has always been a pretty terrible game in that regard, but I've found random BGs etc. a lot more fun in Legion than prior expansions thanks to the gear normalisation and reduction in CC.

participation is down *heavily*.

Before, about 45% of characters participated in enough "casual"/end-game PvP to ear the achievements related to BGs for the season.

This season, its about 20% or less of characters. (Its a little harder to gauge, because the "gained 27,000 honor" achievement - or, basically a full set of honor gear - is gone now). Best guesses from Armory data mining.

So.. half as many people participating in "regular" PvP... or less.

I haven't stepped foot into a BG yet.... and PvP was ALL i used to do at end-game other than the occasional spot-fill for friends on raids.

3-5 characters fully CQ geared from Random BGs and a tiny bit of Ashran each season.

Haven't hit a BG yet.. because there's absolutely no incentive to do so. I have limited play time, and since i have to be doing WQs anyway to get AP efficiently, and the WQs reward better gear than im going to get from Random BGs by a mile...

I just do WQs. Random PvP is pointless.

[Hydrofluoric]

not suprised, PVP takes skill for the first time sense classic

By skill do you mean being a certain class and just globaling someone else? PvP was horrible in Classic by today's standards.

[Ausr]

was this wPvP or instanced? Makes a big difference. wPvP is completely whack.

World but the rest of my complaints apply to both.

[rda]

Guys, guys.

You know how many people got named glad rating on EU (that's 0.1%)?

Can you guess the number?

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It's 35.

That means the entire ladder, the entire effing ladder on EU, the whole number of people who did rated PVP on EU enough to be eligible to glad in The Season 1 of The Great Legion is 35,000.

Wooooow, that sure is a lot. Woohoo.

Think about it. 35,000. Thirty. Five. Thousand. That's it.

All hail Holinka. /gets to knees, positions himself in the direction of Irvine, CA and takes a loooooong bow

PS: A clarification. The numbers reported previously were higher because Blizzard cutoffs require you not just to play a single rated game, they require you to play 50 rated games. So, yes, these 35,000 guys are not everyone who did any rated PVP at all, no. But they are the only ones who managed to suffer it for 50 games in order to enter the list. And for those who are PVEers and don't know whether 50 rated games is a lot - that's at the very most a week worth of very casual play. Apparently next to nobody cared to do even that.

[rda]

The playerbase didn't change, cutoff calculations did without them saying anything... because blizzard always fucks up in pvp.

If you have a blue stating that there was a big change, that cites the new requirements, by all means cite it. Otherwise, the very first post of the thread contains numbers illustrating that the ladder in Legion collapsed to about half from the last season of WoD, read at least that before commenting.

[rda]

I've said they changed it without them saying and you want a blue post. Your very own numbers - that you've posted in the first post - don't line up with the cutoff.

Mmo-champ quallity, as usual.

Who did I write the "PS" for? I wrote it almost immediately, your reply was 20 minutes later.

I think the discrepancy is because the numbers in the first post are without the requirement for 50 games, and Blizzard final cutoffs are with that requirement.

[kalaratic]

guess that's what happens when you treat your players like glue eating babbling retards and think anything more than 3 buttons would be too complicated for people to handle.

[Towstie]

I play Fury PvP and love it.

Also, the loss in PvP numbers is probably because of the stronger interest in PvE.

[Alvito]

I am sure it has been said many times, but there are far fewer rewards or reasons to do ranked pvp now. You get more AP that is about it. With the best gear for pvp often coming from pve sources people don't need to grind like they did before. Capping prestige at 4 also deterred some people once they hit that marker.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys, guys.

You know how many people got named glad rating on EU (that's 0.1%)?

Can you guess the number?

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It's 35.

That means the entire ladder, the entire effing ladder on EU, the whole number of people who did rated PVP on EU enough to be eligible to glad in The Season 1 of The Great Legion is 35,000.

Wooooow, that sure is a lot. Woohoo.

Think about it. 35,000. Thirty. Five. Thousand. That's it.

All hail Holinka. /gets to knees, positions himself in the direction of Irvine, CA and takes a loooooong bow

PS: A clarification. The numbers reported previously were higher because Blizzard cutoffs require you not just to play a single rated game, they require you to play 50 rated games. So, yes, these 35,000 guys are not everyone who did any rated PVP at all, no. But they are the only ones who managed to suffer it for 50 games in order to enter the list. And for those who are PVEers and don't know whether 50 rated games is a lot - that's at the very most a week worth of very casual play. Apparently next to nobody cared to do even that.

50 matches is way more the a weeks worth of pvp unless that is all you do. Over the course of an entire season it isn't that much, but there is little reason to do them now. They offer little that other sources of pvp or the game do not.

[rda]

To be fair to Blizzard, I have to say that this *might* indeed be a bug (or even a change like Helltrixz suggests). Ie, something like it was previously required that you play 50 games to qualify and now that you win 50 games. If this is the case, things are better, although the main point obviously stands - the ladder shrunk a lot.

Need a blue.

PS: 50 matches is half a week worth of 2-hour evenings with breaks. Playing *for cap* has you playing 20 games already and that's very casual (capping three alts is routine and yes, you still have main which can do more than just PVP and that's while playing 2 hours a day tops).

[Mafic]

The playerbase didn't change, cutoff calculations did without them saying anything... because blizzard always fucks up in pvp.

Maybe it is a bug or maybe ladders did collapse.

[Professor Expert]

Pretty sure the obvious has been mentioned somewhere in the previous pages, but it's worth mentioning again. One of the major incentives to play rated pvp was to acquire gear INSTEAD of doing raids/dungeons. With that incentive removed, you only have the "hardcore" people who actually like arena/RBGs. PvP gear doesn't matter because iLVL is all that matters.

I do not like the pvp template thing. Of all the bad ideas they've had, this is arguably the worst. I do not like the separate set of pvp-specific talents. There's a lot to dislike about pvp in legion and nothing to suggest it's headed in the right direction.

[Tyrannica]

I can't say about the other classes, but frost mage sucked during TBC. You couldn't kill any healer whatsoever and also you couldn't kill warlocks at all. The only thing you could kill was melee classes (rogue, warrior, etc). So you were forced to play 2 dps in 2v2 because of the oom issue, and that means that you can't afford to have any mistakes, while comps like resto/warr, resto/warlock, resto/hunter could play bad and still faceroll you. 90% of the teams above 2.3k were the resto/something combination, with both warrior and sl/sl warlock being extremely overpowered.

yeah well, my PoV focused as the ultimative healer killer was merely SL/SL lock. never noticed other classesd doing much, other than maybe an arms with MS and massive burst.

Mages were a snack for any lock like all the other casters. But, Mages could actually counter rogues and warriors. Both of those countered those op SL/SL locks, q uite easily, also everyone seemed to play undead back in TBC for will of the forsaken.

It was a radical balance, thats perhaps why the views here are so different. No one except me played lock here during TBC. lol

And still during TBC we did not need dampening, because how bursty dds were and how strong the cc was, much stronger than the shadow of a cc we got today.(DD Class PoV mostly rogue/lock/mage)

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty sure the obvious has been mentioned somewhere in the previous pages, but it's worth mentioning again. One of the major incentives to play rated pvp was to acquire gear INSTEAD of doing raids/dungeons. With that incentive removed, you only have the "hardcore" people who actually like arena/RBGs. PvP gear doesn't matter because iLVL is all that matters.

I do not like the pvp template thing. Of all the bad ideas they've had, this is arguably the worst. I do not like the separate set of pvp-specific talents. There's a lot to dislike about pvp in legion and nothing to suggest it's headed in the right direction.

aquire gear and actually ratings to get gear pieces to wear recent season gear.

[ImpalerEU]

As a Warlock(Affliction), I have to say that this is one of the worst seasons I have ever played. The class' mechanics is just NOT made for PvP game play. There's literally no reliable defensive abilities and the damage/pressure is predictable and straight-up terrible. I have 3 instant dots(Agony, Corruption and Siphon Life) that do ZERO pressure and stacking Unstable Afflictions requires 5 casts and 5 shards that get spam dispelled over and over. Why am I playing a "raw dps" class when all I do in arena is wait for max dampening only to end up dying 90% of the time?. Oom healers can keep up their targets when I'm the primary damage dealer simply because they can only line of sight and dispel. Hell I had a game where a GUARDIAN DRUID was able to successfully off-heal his partner who had all DoTs on him including max(x5) UAs.

Additionally, the entire PvP scene is just laughable. Though it's rather normal for the first season to be terrible. I'm expecting the game's PvP scene to be tolerable when 7.2 launches. It's sad because the expansion is amazing so far. The PvE scene is extremely fun, the world content is rich and looks to only get better. When early WoD was bad I simply unsubscribed till 6.2 launched because there was literally nothing else worth doing. In Legion though, I'm sticking around because there are other fun rewarding options.

[rda]

Isn't it still bigger than WoD season 2? Yes/no?

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I can answer that for you. Legions s1 participation was larger than WoD s2 by ~36 %.

...in 3v3, and in RBG Legion s1 was smaller than WoD s2 by about 42%. So it's a tie even with the worst data point you had to look for specifically to bring.

Yes, Legion PVP kind of has a participation problem. Deal with it.

[Kreeshak]

You can't prove it. You might can't argue it, because some fanboi or troll will claim you are paranoid.

But you know Holinka has failed PVP miserably when the following trash gets highly rated:

[Professor Expert]

aquire gear and actually ratings to get gear pieces to wear recent season gear.

Yeah, but the pve gear is better overall than pvp gear stat-wise, so having the best pvp gear is only useful if you like doing world pvp and the average WoW player doesn't care about world pvp or ratings. That's why I said only the "hardcore" are still doing arena/RBGs. For most you are better off running mythic+ or raids. Far more rewards per time spent, and access to the best gear.

I enjoyed to pursuing rating but I also want weapons and gear as rewards. Why should pve players enjoy the best items that make them better at pve, while pvp get shafted with an "everybody is a winner" template, all set bonuses, enchants, trinket procs disabled...etc...and even with all this "normalization" you still have ridiculously OP classes instead of a well-balanced cast of classes.