[Movie] Star Wars: Rogue One

[draykorinee]

I did

They got roped into a fight
They said hi
They went to random old cripple rebel dudes
Town went boom
They decided fuck it, we homies

Pretty dumb since well....they didnt do much interacting, just kinda happened.... reminds me of how people meet in stoner movies. Usually in other movies, more shit happens or we learn more about said characters to kinda make up for the sudden "we homies now", but that never really happened in this movie.

The force drew them together, it's patently obvious, Chirrut was like a religious zealot and he felt the connection with Jyn. It's nothing like a stoner movie, it's a very clear and obvious reason.

Some of your complaints are of course subjective and not liking a movie is fine, but when you're wilfully ignoring obvious plot points and making objectively false statements it just devalues what you've said.

[GennGreymane]

Funniest thing I have read in awhile here. I would usually rebuttal things like this but not this time. Shine like a diamond Greymane, shine like a diamond.

I will... I will shine like a diamond

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The force drew them together, it's patently obvious, Chirrut was like a religious zealot and he felt the connection with Jyn. It's nothing like a stoner movie, it's a very clear and obvious reason.

Oh right... she had a necklace thingy and that never came into play during the movie in any way........ like after its brought up by that guy whose name I thought was the other ones after being told what their names were, that necklace thing never mattered again.

yeah force.... she has no force, he hardly does... sorry, but "because force" is exactly what I am saying, because it is "because plot"

the force excuse is literally the same thing as, "fuck it, we homies"

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Had there been a scene of them actually... talking and learning more about the asian dudes and how their goals reflect what main characters, or that they share a connection in some way beyond "because plot" then its fine from a story telling standpoint. However, that is not the case. I dont remember them actually having any real conversations at all....

Like let me think of one

Asian dude tells a story about him and other dude fighting the empire and losing something/someone. Makes them more sympathetic, and gives the main character a connection to them that the audience can also see. Have them actually discuss, or fuck it WHY ARE THEY BASICALLY UNFAZED BY THEIR HOME BEING DESTROYED! Maybe coulda brought that up in some way, but they didnt. I mean everyone except rebel dude with an accent and the pilot lost friends in that explosion... what a great way for them to connect as characters, but they didnt.

[draykorinee]

She had no force...You know there are a lot of memes that I could put in to site my face when I read that, like force is some kind of quantifiable medium.

sian dude tells a story about him and other dude fighting the empire and losing something/someone.

Like having their entire reason for living taken from them and then destroyed? Damn man, they destroyed their temple right in front of us and you want another bit of exposition??? Mental.

I'll not bother anymore after that one.

[GennGreymane]

She had no force...You know there are a lot of memes that I could put in to site my face when I read that, like force is some kind of quantifiable medium.

I'll not bother anymore after that one.

Shes not a jedi.... she had no force abilities... she had nothing to do with the force at all. Isnt that supposed to be her point? I am sorry, but "plot convenience" being renamed as "the force" for her character is not gonna cut it for me.

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She had no force...You know there are a lot of memes that I could put in to site my face when I read that, like force is some kind of quantifiable medium.



Like having their entire reason for living taken from them and then destroyed? Damn man, they destroyed their temple right in front of us and you want another bit of exposition??? Mental.

I'll not bother anymore after that one.

Well, guess what

THEY WERE NOT FAZED BY IT AT ALL! It was never brought up. We never find out how it impacts them... just moved to the next scene. They basically come off as not caring or that it does not matter because next scene. Sorry, but do not confuse "exposition" and "character development".

[draykorinee]

Shes not a jedi.... she had no force abilities... she had nothing to do with the force at all. Isnt that supposed to be her point? I am sorry, but "plot convenience" being renamed as "the force" for her character is not gonna cut it for me.

Firstly no. That's not her point, it's not mentioned she's not force sensitive or aware. Secondly HE joined them, he was force sensitive, quite obviously he felt the force pull him towards her. She doesn't need to have any attunement to the force for that to happen.

It's star wars, the force is a plot convenience throughout the entire story, sorry you don't get that.

Just go back to gen OT.

[GennGreymane]

Firstly no. That's not her point, it's not mentioned she's not force sensitive or aware. Secondly HE joined them, he was force sensitive, quite obviously he felt the force pull him towards her. She doesn't need to have any attunement to the force for that to happen.

It's star wars, the force is a plot convenience throughout the entire story, sorry you don't get that.

Then its a good thing I haven't seen the rest of starwars, because it sounds like it sucks.

No shit he joined them. that is not in dispute. Instead of making a character moment, they said "the force", which is "plot convenience" and lazy writing. Easily coulda had a scene on the ship where they take in what just happens and have a character moment for both Asian dudes, but instead, they go with "the plot force"

[PACOX]

Tragedy, a common enemy, and witnessing the power of the Death Star is what brought them all together. Escaping a giant rock tsunami sort of does that to people.

[GennGreymane]

Tragedy, a common enemy, and witnessing the power of the Death Star is what brought them all together. Escaping a giant rock tsunami sort of does that to people.

Except instead of having us see and empathize, they just focus on the boom and next scene. Had they had a quick short character scene, where they like... react to what just happened, it would have been better. Instead they chose to not do that and basically neglected giving two characters a purpose beyond existing for the sake of having them for plot.

[draykorinee]

Tragedy, a common enemy, and witnessing the power of the Death Star is what brought them all together. Escaping a giant rock tsunami sort of does that to people.

Well, it was Jyns kyber Crystal necklace that actually drew them together initially, then the very obvious rape and destruction of their temple, fighting and being captured together, then the clear concern over the power of the death star. But what we really needed was a chat on a ship about what was just shown on screen to clarify it all...

[GennGreymane]

Well, it was Jyns kyber Crystal necklace that actually drew them together initially, then the very obvious rape and destruction of their temple, fighting and being captured together, then the clear concern over the power of the death star. But what we really needed was a chat on a ship about what was just shown on screen to clarify it all...

You're right, none of that was a CGI fest and bad writing.

The necklace was such a throw away... did it ever matter again? They see an explosion, and boom, next scene. Now they all homies. Instead of humanizing the characters, they funnel it scene to scene. Thats not developing characters, thats just having guys as stand ins.

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Her necklace is a kyber crystal. Kyber crystals, "Living crystals", are force-attuned. Chirrut is a force-sensitive person. Chirrut is also a Protector of the Kyber Temple. He sensed the Kyber crystal around her neck.

That's pretty much the whole plot point of her necklace and Chirrut.

And yet that necklace never comes into play beyond that.... its empathized in the beginning, that guy brings it up... and then what?

[GennGreymane]

I don't think it was meant to have a bigger part than that. The Necklace was the main reason for the recruitment of Chirrut and Baze. It was what brought them together. It's not like a little necklace is going to have some major massive story arc on its own.

It mattered because without it, they wouldn't have met Chirrut and Baze, without Chirrut it's unlikely anyone would've turned the master switch in the end, and the message wouldn't have been transmitted.

Like I said, their point is plot. There is no purpose to them beyond that. Instead of developing them, which would have had a greater impact on their sacrifices in the end, they chose not to.


Heck cut out literally everything with the black crippled rebel guy and use that time to develop the characters instead. It would make for a better movie.

Overall, my biggest issue was the characters were really boring.

[PACOX]

Well, it was Jyns kyber Crystal necklace that actually drew them together initially, then the very obvious rape and destruction of their temple, fighting and being captured together, then the clear concern over the power of the death star. But what we really needed was a chat on a ship about what was just shown on screen to clarify it all...

My memory is a bit fuzzy but doesn't Jyn's speech before they went off to Scariff sort of serve the same purpose of unifying them? Cassian really didn't anyone much of a choice before that, sort of dragged them along for what he had to do.

[Deleted]

Oh right... she had a necklace thingy and that never came into play during the movie in any way........ like after its brought up by that guy whose name I thought was the other ones after being told what their names were, that necklace thing never mattered again.

yeah force.... she has no force, he hardly does... sorry, but "because force" is exactly what I am saying, because it is "because plot"

the force excuse is literally the same thing as, "fuck it, we homies"

The Crystal that Jyn wears is a Kyber Crystal (they are the crystals that are used in Lightsabers, attuned to the Force and such), the "2 Asian dudes" as you refer them to, were Guardians of the Jedi Temple (mentioned in the film), the same Jedi temple that was being looted by the Empire to build the Death Star (mentioned in the film), Chirrut (thats the blind fella) still believes in the force, finds a girl wearing a force attuned crystal, the same type that he used to protect in the Jedi Temple (you can draw that conclusion from the things mentioned in the film), and looking for purpose decides to follow her. Baze (thats the other asian fella) follows Chirrut because he has nothing else left in life, he was once a devout follower of the force (mentioned in the film), but the Jedi's defeat has given him a crisis of faith (mentioned in the film).

If you aren't paying attention to the film that you are watching, your not gonna know a characters motivation, i'd say that Baze and Chirrut had quite solid motivations, Chirrut wanted something to follow, some holy quest to go on to hopefully redeem himself for allowing the Empire to loot the temple he's sworn to protect, and Baze just wanted to protect his friend.

[GennGreymane]

The Crystal that Jyn wears is a Kyber Crystal (they are the crystals that are used in Lightsabers, attuned to the Force and such), the "2 Asian dudes" as you refer them to, were Guardians of the Jedi Temple (mentioned in the film), the same Jedi temple that was being looted by the Empire to build the Death Star (mentioned in the film), Chirrut (thats the blind fella) still believes in the force, finds a girl wearing a force attuned crystal, the same type that he used to protect in the Jedi Temple (you can draw that conclusion from the things mentioned in the film), and looking for purpose decides to follow her. Baze (thats the other asian fella) follows Chirrut because he has nothing else left in life, he was once a devout follower of the force (mentioned in the film), but the Jedi's defeat has given him a crisis of faith (mentioned in the film).

If you aren't paying attention to the film that you are watching, your not gonna know a characters motivation, i'd say that Baze and Chirrut had quite solid motivations, Chirrut wanted something to follow, some holy quest to go on to hopefully redeem himself for allowing the Empire to loot the temple he's sworn to protect, and Baze just wanted to protect his friend.

I was paying attention. The motivations really were not that clear because its never really brought up and never really seemed to matter. You are making a few inferences. "redeem self" is an inference. Is that brought up at all that he wants redemption? Because I can't remember. Clearly they could have done a better job had they the time developing the characters, I woulda given a shit. But instead they spent like an hour on a character who in the end didn't actually matter. They could have cut that one out entirely, and replaced it with developing the characters.

My point is that they are not developed. They are basically there because plot. I think the characters should have been done a lot better. They also could have been done better with few extra scenes that I dunno... go into them, so we get a better idea of who the characters are. Instead they didnt and just funneled into the next set piece.

Honestly all the characters needed this treatment. The main was boring, the rebel with an accent should have been more interesting (I mean he kills a comrade in the start).... I dont know why the pilot mattered after his tentacle scene literally coulda done everything without him... yes the pilot helps in the end, but honestly I am pretty sure they woulda figured something else out without him. Maybe a bigger scene for the two Asian guys or the Droid. and boy was the main villain kinda a bitch.

[draykorinee]

Also Jyns hot and has a great ass, I'd follow her.

[Deleted]

I was paying attention. The motivations really were not that clear because its never really brought up and never really seemed to matter. You are making a few inferences. "redeem self" is an inference. Is that brought up at all that he wants redemption? Because I can't remember. Clearly they could have done a better job had they the time developing the characters, I woulda given a shit. But instead they spent like an hour on a character who in the end didn't actually matter. They could have cut that one out entirely, and replaced it with developing the characters.

My point is that they are not developed. They are basically there because plot. I think the characters should have been done a lot better.

I completely agree that the characters could have been done better and i'd argue that the characters were probably the weakest part of the film.

However there is enough information about the characters and there backstory to infer motivations without much difficulty that it comes off as more of a nitpick than a solid criticism.

[draykorinee]

I completely agree that the characters could have been done better and i'd argue that the characters were probably the weakest part of the film.

However there is enough information about the characters and there backstory to infer motivations without much difficulty that it comes off as more of a nitpick than a solid criticism.

Absolutely, they were all a lot shallower than most star wars characters. Ultimately though they're DOA, the story is plot driven and not character driven like most star wars because why invest too much in characters that ultimately die. I couldn't tell you anything about 99% of the characters in Saving Private Ryan but I was invested in their mission, Matt Damon's character is actually quite boring as a lead.

[GennGreymane]

Also Jyns hot and has a great ass, I'd follow her.

fair, this is a fair point.

[Deleted]

Absolutely, they were all a lot shallower than most star wars characters. Ultimately though they're DOA, the story is plot driven and not character driven like most star wars because why invest too much in characters that ultimately die. I couldn't tell you anything about 99% of the characters in Saving Private Ryan but I was invested in their mission, Matt Damon's character is actually quite boring as a lead.

Precisely, you care about them because they are doing something heroic, not because you already know they are heroic.

I barely knew a thing about Kaytoo, but I still felt it when he died because he died protecting people that he obviously cared about.

[GennGreymane]

I completely agree that the characters could have been done better and i'd argue that the characters were probably the weakest part of the film.

However there is enough information about the characters and there backstory to infer motivations without much difficulty that it comes off as more of a nitpick than a solid criticism.

I honestly have to disagree. I mostly got any starwars knowledge I have from battlefront 2... which i played the fuck out of. The writing of the motivations and just characters themselves was very bad.
@draykorinee

I have read that excuse of "plot driven, not character driven" before, and I dont think its good. You cant have a good movie without a bit of both. The plot should move the characters and the characters should move the plot. From what i recall of saving private ryan, they really went into the impact the fighting was having on regular people, not so much in this film. The fact they die means maybe they should have given them more weight. It brings more gravity to their sacrifices and without changing the scenes themselves, makes the scenes more impact and makes Leia's line at the end more impact.