Does the M+ timer make it more fun for you?

[Orangetai420]

I have the most fun doing the last key in the week.

The highest one ... +12 or +14... where you have absolutely no pressure and just need to finish. And it's entertainingly hard. Depending on the Affixes you have to really lay out plans to do certain trash packs or bosses.

I don't know why I never thought of it this way. Great perspective, makes me rethink my stance on the timer.

[I Push Buttons]

I hate timers.

I'd prefer it just be exceptionally hard with penalties for dying or failing mechanics, with the reward determined by how well you complete it.

I play WoW to play my character and fulfill my character's role. Not to race clocks, fudge mechanics, stealth/glitch past stuff, etc.

[BannedForViews]

I'm not a huge fan of the timers but I've gotten more used to it. I think it's a silly artificial gate. I get it in D3 where the goal is to blast through content as fast as possible, but I don't think it makes as much sense for wow. I think they should increase the timers a bit though. The 10+ keys are a lot harder than the sub 10 and nobody really wants to rerun depleted keys. Also very few times are you just missing it. You're either a cmoplete shit group or you're gonna hit the timer, so I don't think it's a bad idea to slightly relax it.

What I really don't like though is Invis pots in dungeons. They should not allow those. Not only does it ruin the dps pot rotation, but it's just a really lame mechanic where people think they are "good" because they are trying to skip a few random mobs to save a couple seconds, and basically expect you to have them on you.

[Zoldor]

I have to say I love Mythic +, I enjoyed CMs when they were out, but never could get a solid group because for most folks the rewards weren't there and most folks didn't want to put in the time or required different effort. They also got kind of comp oriented unless you waited until the very very end of expansion.

But I think they hit the nail on the head with Mythic + because the timers aren't crushing by any standard, until of course 10+ where it gets really challenging. I can't wait to do my first 15+, my crew at this point just runs for AP gear and more fun than a regular dungeon between raids. Really dig the content personally and I don't mind the timer at all.

I think the people mad at the gogogo haven't broken into the higher up ones. Your group has to plan before know the pulls and communicate on the higher levels you can't just rush in and go ape shit. There is a lot of coordination that goes in at the higher levels unless you are running the place for the 10th time with the same crew. You have to know your shit, and CC exists, and stuns and silence get insanely important, as well as kiting, positioning etc.

[Yuyn]

The 10+ keys are a lot harder than the sub 10

That's due to the additional affix. The same thing happens at +7, though not quite as dramatically.

I think the system could use some tweaking, since the majority of the difficulty increase comes from those added affixes, rather than the baseline increases. It gives it a bump difficulty curve without providing a reward curve to match.

[BannedForViews]

That's due to the additional affix. The same thing happens at +7, though not quite as dramatically.

I think the system could use some tweaking, since the majority of the difficulty increase comes from those added affixes, rather than the baseline increases. It gives it a bump difficulty curve without providing a reward curve to match.

I know why it happens. It's also due to a ramping up of the % modifier. The difference between a 9 and an 10 though is pretty much night and day for me right now though. Not like 10s are undoable in the slightest, but sub 10s are just so easy it's really all about 3 chesting as fast as possible.

And I think that is another one of the big problems. you should be rewarded for completing, but needing to 3 chest? It's unnecessary, and ultimately gives less AP. it is dumb though beating a 13 and getting worthless 870 gear, especially since these high ones aren't really easily run. and I can't say the 170k AP was really worth a 13 CoS, not when I can get 140-150k stomping 8s all day.

[Echocho]

You're probably very casual if you get stressed by that.
I have a very competitive nature so I always try to push to go as fast as possible.

I've killed mythic Helya, how about you casual?

[Zoldor]

I know why it happens. It's also due to a ramping up of the % modifier. The difference between a 9 and an 10 though is pretty much night and day for me right now though. Not like 10s are undoable in the slightest, but sub 10s are just so easy it's really all about 3 chesting as fast as possible.

And I think that is another one of the big problems. you should be rewarded for completing, but needing to 3 chest? It's unnecessary, and ultimately gives less AP. it is dumb though beating a 13 and getting worthless 870 gear, especially since these high ones aren't really easily run. and I can't say the 170k AP was really worth a 13 CoS, not when I can get 140-150k stomping 8s all day.

I think the AP is kind of supposed to be like gold from a raid boss, you didn't get any loot so here is some consolation. Less of, I run high mythic + for AP. I should be for the challenge and the loots. The AP is just the toss in thanks for playing gift, not an efficient way to farm ap. That is what low +s is for, and it creates carry groups for lowbies and keeps the heavy hitters playing with the little guys, bridges a social gap in a sense.

[Zylos]

I've killed mythic Helya, how about you casual?

Line em' up boys we got a dick measuring contest.

I'm not sure how else you would make M+ difficult without a timer. Sure you could make pulls super hard but then it's a question of can our group finish this AT ALL. The intent of M+ is if you get a key you can at least finish it and get some loot even if you don't make the timer which IMO this is an important feature. If the difficulty was such that you couldn't even finish then really all it is is a 5 man Mythic raid which would be bleh and people wouldn't really bother that much. Seriously who wants to spend 4 hours a night running a single 5 man.

[Woop Woop]

I've killed mythic Helya, how about you casual?

I've killed mythic Hogger.

[danieltang34]

If you think theres no tactical challenge u probably arent pushing to your limits

[prwraith]

I don't think mythic should have a timer.

I think it should be a did you complete it, here's a reward, you didn't complete it, try harder next time.

[danieltang34]

The rule of thumb that Blizzard gives the impression of not quite understanding is thus: If there's a timer, it's going to be a requirement to try and beat it; even if that means listing only for 870+ on a +2/+3. I do wish they could implement a better way to award multiple chests.

One suggestion I've submitted is scoring players on performance. Have Blizzard set an arbitrary goal of (I'm being very general here)
1) avoid x damage and beat certain mechanics for tanks
2) Deal x damage per second and beat or avoid certain mechanics for dps
3) Don't let players die to recoverable damage/mechanics. This one basically would account for a sudden death by falling off a bridge or jumping into fire (which fails the mechanics requirement for the dps) vs. taking damage from a mob or not being dispelled.

Players would get points based on how well they did (up to 20 each), then they could individually gift up to that many points to their allies as thanks for also doing well. End goal of a dungeon (in this example) would be a potential 100 points. If everybody gets 20 points, it's a 3-chest, and people will feel good about sharing points that way.

I actually think the timer does just that, in a much better fashion.

[Dug]

No I'm not a fan of timers at all but with the way they are right now they would be far too rewarding if you just completed it. If they removed timers and made them even harder then I'd be cool with that.

[Deleted]

Yes it does

It rewards good play and allows me to determine the speed of the dungeon

[Tojara]

For me I don't really enjoy the timer at all. WoW has always been a more deliberate, strategic game for me. If i wanted fast-paced stuff I'd probably play Overwatch or something else.

You can technically just do M+ without the timer and get your chest, but good luck finding a group to play it that way.


When I originally heard of M+ I was expecting more of a tactical challenge like old school Magister's terrace where it was about CC, interrupts, focusing mobs, and then dealing with the affix mechanics. Not "go go go gogogogo gogogo" playstyle, where it basically comes down to kiting and running though and throwing AOE stuns.

Um fast paced isn't mutually exclusive with all the other things you listed lol. There was no challenge in old dungeons, it was literally CC dangerous things and slowly burn things down, at least for the majority of groups.

I hope people realize that this style of gameplay has always existed, even in TBC. If you had people who knew how to CC, interrupt and throw out stuns at the right time, you did the exact same thing lol.

If you want M+ to be 'slower' do higher keystone runs, because eventually it does slow down to slow as molasses style gameplay that you seem to be yearning. But yeah, while people want to go fast that has less to do with the timer to complete the dungeon on time, and more to do with crushing the timer so you get 2-3 chests every time.

I can assure you that while the speed element exists at all levels, you aren't going to crush times or have smooth runs without 'strategically' using interrupts, CC, stuns, silences and kiting. There is far more strategy involved and skill gameplay for knowing how to do amazing DPS, pulling as much as you can and not wiping in the process. Not sure how taking your time and burning through a couple mobs at a time is somehow more strategic.

Lots of elements in this game have timers, even if they aren't plain as day like in M+. Most raid bosses have timers to where you wipe to an enrage, whether it be an artificial enrage through mechanics coming too fast, or a DPS requirement not being met. That or just a plain you ran out of time, now the boss does 500% extra damage.

I've done dungeons at every level and every expansion of the game, and aside from a few blips along the way, the overall dungeon experience has only gotten better. Personally, WoTLK was the worst incarnation, with TBC being a close second. Nothing was really challenging in TBC dungeons so much as it was slow. Sure was fun doing shattered halls on my rogue, and shiving crippling poison on everything while we kited everything throughout the instance. It wasn't challenging, and there was zero danger of anybody dying because 95% of the mobs abilities in TBC was literally "I MELEE HARD". Which boils down to CC things, kite things, and try not to pull aggro. Sure there was some caster mobs that were dangerous, but by comparison most mobs were tank and spank melee mobs that hit incredibly hard.

Not sure what people thought Black Morass was. It didn't have a timer, but it effectively was the first timer based instance (aside from the speed run element in Stratholme in Vanilla). None of the mobs did anything in Black Morass, you just had to have the DPS generally, and sometimes had to interrupt the cast elites that came out of the portal.

The timer is there to keep people honest, and truthfully if you ignore the timer it's not going to be an issue 99% of the time anyway. Unless your DPS is truly piss poor or you wipe a few times, you should never fail a timer. To a lot of people, at least in this thread, it seems to be that M+ is just doing 2-9 and 2/3 chesting them and that's how you viewing the system. Yeah, in those ranges the general purpose is to blitz through them. If you want a challenge, if you want to go slow...um.. go to the ones above that? Of course dungeons are going to be sped through when most people over gear them. Thank god that the system keeps scaling, and you can reach a point where you can't just gather 3-4 packs and AoE them down.

[normiegonnanorm]

Yes and no.
Yes because it makes good runs harder, so more skill is required.
No because dungeons are honestly boring and fast corridors with no idea or lore behind it, just some mobs are placed for us to kill them, all we do is killing because we are heroes (lol).

[Raxz]

I like the fast paced gameplay but not the player attitudes and unrealistic expectations that come with it.

[schwarzkopf]

Nah - hate the timer, much prefer to push my skill level than spam level.

[Alydael]

I agree with the op. I think the whole timer thing is junk. I would rather have difficult pulls that you have to plan out instead of a race against the clock. The "race" aspect also favors certain classes and specs.

The timers just make it seem gimmicky.