Are you prepared to experience Azeroth in a whole new light?

[Dequanacus]

Dude, I just said that this forum has its jerks and that it was annoying to scroll through useless/bad criticism, which is true. It really just boils down to that. You went on and said "Criticism does not require overly sensitive articulation. It is not a personal attack. [...] You should fully expect this reaction and any responses that you feel are unhelpful do not hinder you in any way. " and this is where I (and seemingly some others) disagree with you. While I agree they do not "hinder" me, there is still no reason not to show courtesy or act decent towards others, especially when providing feedback to work.

Thanks, man. Hope you enjoy it.

And all I did was question your reasoning for acknowledging it in the first place with the argument that you knew people could respond to it in any way they wished. Your response was that you "did not expect it" and I responded by again noting that, being an open forum, claiming "you did not expect it" makes no sense.

Again, it's just your idealism and my practicality. You're speaking that people "should" treat each other better, which I have no problem with, but I'm speaking about being realistic in assuming that, by putting your work out on an open forum, you open it up to any range of reaction.

Saying people shouldn't treat each other with respect is different from saying that one should expect potentially negative comments. I feel this is where you seem to misunderstand me. I at no point said it's not preferable to have courteous discussion. I said that you put your self in an environment where you have no control over whether people respond courteously or not. Therefore you cannot say with any confidence that you did not expect negative comments, and because of that, it has little meaning to bemoan receiving negative feedback, as it's out of your control.

You seem to think that I am endorsing negative behavior when all I'm saying is that you have no control over it. Don't draw idealism into it. The entirety of my argument is, did you have a way of knowing what the reaction will be, yes or no. If no, I don't understand why you feel the reaction itself is worth acknowledging, as you had no control over it in the first place. If you're trying to argue that you expected people to treat you nicely, I'm looking for the logic in that.

All that feel good "people should be nice" idealism is great, but it's unrelated to what I'm saying and I made no comment on it whatsoever. You repeatedly try to associate my argument with some deeper commentary on how people should interact with each other when I'm just questioning why you said "I didn't expect this behavior".

TL;DR: It's futile to complain about the demeanor of others when you're putting your self out for anyone to judge you. In what way can you "not expect" a certain reaction when anyone can say anything they want about your work? What logic is there in assuming it will all be positive? Saying people should treat each other courteously is irrelevant and I'm not saying anything about how people should act. Idealism about proper human behavior doesn't challenge the notion that this is an open forum where people can say, within certain boundaries, what they want, whether it is positive or negative.

[Nokonda]

OK, listen. I do get you, man. I know the TL;DR version of your point is "turn the other cheek and expect/accept any sort of feedback - even the obscene and crude ones" and I apologise for making the assumption that you actively condone rude behaviour. I do however reserve my right to voice my opinion against the obscene and crude ones despite your claim of futility. It really shouldn't be that difficult to uphold a decent tone no matter the point you want to get across. Especially when you're discussing such a subjective thing as taste (as this is).

What logic is there in assuming it will all be positive?

You know this isn't what I asked. I simply asked people to provide any thoughts and feedback in a respectful manner.

Saying people should treat each other courteously is irrelevant(...)

I disagree, even if "this is an open forum where people can say, within certain boundaries, what they want, whether it is positive or negative." It is never irrelevant to remind people to show common decency around others. Call it idealism, romanticism, fantasies or whatever you want to label it. I call it common sense to be respectful of others no matter the subject at hand. It contributes to a healthy environment (as your forum guidelines correctly states) and it encourages others to share whatever work they may have if they know that the tone is considerate no matter if the feedback is positive or constructive.

[Cæli]

impressive

pros : less bright
cons : less colors

don't know how to explain, the base colors looks much more pretty, but on the other hand the add on filter removes some brightness and makes it looks more like what the graphics were meant to be (a wow style)

[Phookah]

Filmed, zones in the Broken Isles, gave credits to you! damned youtube a bit killed video graphic, but overall can see the difference and I love this difference!

No one wants to see you hock your Youtube.
OT: I'm a performance over visual quality kind of guy, but I have to say it looks great.

[ReleaseDay]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006896057#2

[Zoreyai]

Not a big fan. The world looks better, but the UI looks ridiculous

[Necomis]

Looks good from screen shots. I will give it a try when I get a chance. Using something similar in ESO and it improved visuals nicely over stock.

[Kaleredar]

impressive

pros : less bright
cons : less colors

don't know how to explain, the base colors looks much more pretty, but on the other hand the add on filter removes some brightness and makes it looks more like what the graphics were meant to be (a wow style)

It's simple: it ups the contrast between the light and dark values, but does so at the sake of saturation of color, giving everything a kind of grimy, grayed out feel.

[Nokonda]

It's simple: it ups the contrast between the light and dark values, but does so at the sake of saturation of color, giving everything a kind of grimy, grayed out feel.

Partly true. If I wanted color saturation theres an effect called Vibrance that boosts colors (despite what contrast values I set). Its the sepia filter (and to a lesser extent technicolor) that gives the game a more gritty feel. Some like the more "realistic" approach while others feel it sacrifices too much of the original vibe. I tried to only add what I felt was subtle color changes, though. I appreciate WoWs cartoonish style to a certain extent but I felt it was missing some subtle definition and grittiness among other things.

[Kaleredar]

Partly true. The sepia filter gives the game a more gritty feel as well. Some like the more "realistic" approach while others feel it sacrifices too much of the original vibe. I tried to only add subtle color changes, though. I appreciate WoWs cartoonish style to a certain extent but I felt it was missing some subtle definition and grittiness among other things.

Part of what makes WoW great, and what many CoD-type video games and m video games from the mid-2000s lacked, is color. Hell, other MMOs usually have drab, uninteresting color schemes that are merely worried about local color, rather than giving a place a cohesive palette like WoW does.

WoW is not a gritty game. I don't feel it needs gritty graphics. Games with grungy, gritty graphics are usually doing that because they don't want you looking too closely at anything.

WoW has a great painterly style- all of WoWs textures are paintings. The colors should reflect that. Sapping the color out doesn't add anything.

[Nokonda]

I see what you're saying. I don't think my preset is that gritty though, and I feel it helps remove that hazy fog that's there by default (really demonstrated in screenshots showing distant horizons) .

WoW has a great painterly style- all of WoWs textures are paintings. The colors should reflect that. Sapping the color out doesn't add anything.

I don't see how you can say shots like this don't actually enhance that painterly feel...
https://sfx.thelazy.net/games/screenshot/47627/full/

But it's fair enough if you don't like it. The important thing is that some love it, and there's the option to tweak it to your liking (even if you want to restore original colors)

[nalle]

I see what you're saying. I don't think my preset is that gritty though, and I feel it helps remove that hazy fog that's there by default (really demonstrated in screenshots showing distant horizons) .



I don't see how you can say shots like this don't actually enhance that painterly feel...
https://sfx.thelazy.net/games/screenshot/47627/full/

But it's fair enough if you don't like it. The important thing is that some love it, and there's the option to tweak it to your liking (even if you want to restore original colors)

How can you not see that you've lost a lot of color in that screenshot you just linked?

Everything is just a lot darker, and if you want an example, you've lost a lot of color on the trees and plants in the screenshot where the green almost goes to yellow and just a lot darker. Another example is on the mushroom at the bottom.

Look man, what you've done here is what a lot of game makers have done in the past already where players have complained that the color in the particular game were too low and the contrast too high which made it hard to see details and that it might get players a headache.

It might look good in some screenshots, but actually playing with filters like these doesn't make the game look better in any graphical way. It just applies an artistic filter that makes the game feel more gritty (common in some war centered games and movies to give the player/viewer a more gloomy feeling).

[Kaleredar]

I see what you're saying. I don't think my preset is that gritty though, and I feel it helps remove that hazy fog that's there by default (really demonstrated in screenshots showing distant horizons) .



I don't see how you can say shots like this don't actually enhance that painterly feel...
https://sfx.thelazy.net/games/screenshot/47627/full/

But it's fair enough if you don't like it. The important thing is that some love it, and there's the option to tweak it to your liking (even if you want to restore original colors)

That screenshot has bold enough blues to stand out against the "muddying" effect.

The color sapping is apparent in a lot of the pandaria screenshots. The greens lose almost all of their blues and the Kun-Lai/vale of eternal blossoms grass turns from "golden Amber" to "dead hay" color.

Tweaking it is nice I suppose, but it would be good to see some of those demonstration screenshots without the colors sacrificed.

[Nokonda]

How can you not see that you've lost a lot of color in that screenshot you just linked?

I really don't see it. The sky/clouds lights up with more vibrancy, the reflection in the ocean becomes clearer as does the mushroom head.

The only place I see it is in already darkened/shaded areas. Some definition and color dissappear and I agree it would've been awesome if the application was so advanced it could differentiate these areas from the rest and maybe tone down contrast/black values in those particular parts to create a more visible picture on the whole. Still, I gotta admit it blows my mind how anyone can in all seriousness prefer the original version to the preset in screenshots like the one I linked. But that's tastes. Personally, I feel the default filter in WoW lack so many things... many of which I tried to add.

- - - Updated - - -

Tweaking it is nice I suppose, but it would be good to see some of those demonstration screenshots without the colors sacrificed.

Thanks for the input. I may eventually do my take on a more colorful version of this preset. One that ditches any grittiness and adds in slightly more color with less contrast too. We'll see. For the moment, I'm liking this one though

[rda]

I really don't see it. The sky/clouds lights up ...

Top is your filter, bottom is original.

You lost tons of color on the mushroom and in the mountains (I squigglied the tree because I think it is easiest seen there, but its all throughout the mountain, the filter takes a big range of shades and replaces them with very few variants - extra dark this, extra dark that, extra light green which looks almost like it emits its own light because that's where the formulae threw him, one-two midtones). You gained a bit of fake color in the water because the filter is looking to produce artificial contrast even where there is none, but that obviously is no compensation, it's just emphasizing small details because something has to be emphasized, which ends up emphasizing nonsense.

[Nokonda]

You lost tons of color on the mushroom and in the mountains (I squigglied the tree because I think it is easiest seen there, but its all throughout the mountain, the filter takes a big range of shades and replaces them with very few variants - extra dark this, extra dark that, extra light green which looks almost like it emits its own light because that's where the formulae threw him, one-two midtones). You gained a bit of fake color in the water because the filter is looking to produce artificial contrast even where there is none, but that obviously is no compensation, it's just emphasizing small details because something has to be emphasized, which ends up emphasizing nonsense.

Woah, really? I see what you're trying to point out. I do, but come on... you're really blowing this completely out of proportion, IMO. I see what you're saying about shades on the mountain range, but it just looks flat muddy in the original to me (despite being able to better make out some ridges, yeah). And "way" more color without filtering? Again, it leads me to believe we must have really differently calibrated monitors. It's all I can say. It's so extreme that I gotta ask you: you are being serious about all this, right?

[rda]

Look, I didn't mean to sound offensive, I apologize if I did. But if you think that what I am saying is harsh, you never talked to any real graphic pros (I am not a graphic pro myself, I have just worked with many). Seriously. I wish you well, happy holidays. :-)

[Nokonda]

Look, I didn't mean to sound offensive, I apologize if I did. But if you think that what I am saying is harsh, you never talked to any real graphic pros (I am not a graphic pro myself, I have just worked with many). Seriously. I wish you well, happy holidays. :-)

I appreciate your feedback (and you even take time out to crop images so you can demonstrate various things) and so I try to take into consideration what most people criticize for any future revisions. I do think many of your points are valid and fair and I think where we end up disagreeing is just in how severe things really are. I do think the overall image is greatly improved in many scenarios and I think the drawbacks are small sacrifices. But some drawbacks can surely be improved upon.

But if you think that what I am saying is harsh, you never talked to any real graphic pros (I am not a graphic pro myself, I have just worked with many)

I don't know what any "real graphics pros" would say. But that's the thing with art - some people appreciate and value different things and it's wrong to say a certain style or method is the "correct" one to use. One can only try and argue against and for specific things that we like and dislike. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't value a real graphic pros opinion any higher than any other person with an opinion, no matter if he/she likes it or not. Yours is just as valuable to me regardless of your background. Whether I can use the criticism or not depends on whether or not I can recognize the faults being pointed out.

Oh and thanks for the wishes. I hope yours is wonderful too.

[8bithamster]

Many posts

I am amazed you can keep this up.. Seaclean obviously hasn't been working in design, or any customer focused area. Expecting eveyrone to be nice and social with their critique. It's amazing really.

I don't like the shaders at all. When I can run every modern game on max settings, and this makes me drop from 160-170 to 50-60 I am just not interested.

[Nokonda]

I am amazed you can keep this up.. Seaclean obviously hasn't been working in design, or any customer focused area. Expecting eveyrone to be nice and social with their critique. It's amazing really.

Not just critique but any interaction between humans, really. Basic courtesy. What a thing to expect from others!