Destruction: I dont think the sky is falling

[Deleted]

So like.. the majority of encounters in this game?

its hardly the majority, its half at best and even then thats stretching it and even then thats no where near 100% of the time, the only fight i was looking at was cenarius bcoz that is really the only fight where there is anything to pad since the other encounters stuff needs to die anyway hence not padding

Like.. you're blaming padding as the reason why a Lock can do well but ignoring how much padding other classes do to appear to be destroying Locks in your eyes. Priority damage, Destruction locks are ridiculously good. The entire benefit of being a Destro Lock that when they DO cleave, they don't lose any damage from other priority targets so that makes up for their lack of single target when there isn't an add. Like.. Literally any.

you're absolutely correct but also absolutely wrong, what you dont get is that most other classes dont pad bcoz the things they dps has to die anyway, hence no padding, but when a destro lock starts padding on the dragons on cenarius, adds that dont need to die btw which you know as well as i do, then if a destro locks does well on that fight then it is 100% bcoz of them padding bcoz they are the only class that can actually pad on that fight unless ofc you're tanking the dragons on the boss.

Again, a double standard. You're saying that other classes in your guild should be able to pull damage away from Destro on the add but the Destro locks can't pull damage away from the other classes. So if the Lock does well, he's either padding or his team sucks but if the other classes beat the Locks it's just because their classes are better? Get real.

i never said that, or atleast not the way you said, what i meant is that there was no way the person in question could consistantly get into top 3 unless the other players either suck or is undergeared, if you can get into top 3 on guarm hc or xavius otherwise then your raid sucks, and you know it.

[Gaidax]

Which adds on Dragons or Cenarius don't need to die?

Cenarius is dragons, but if you think Destruction can not be among the best on Cenarius without padding dragons, you are mistaken. But what exactly, for the love of god, you pad on Dragons?

Fact is most of the encounters have often adds, it is a popular mechanic in raids and Destruction is one of the best-equipped specs to handle it. Just look at Nighthold - you have 1 truly ST encounter and all the rest have adds coming regularly, which you need to kill ASAP.

Destruction does not need 100% uptime on adds to do well and with the buffs in 7.1.5 that % needed got smaller.

[Deleted]

Which adds on Dragons or Cenarius don't need to die?

Cenarius is dragons, but if you think Destruction can not be among the best on Cenarius without padding dragons, you are mistaken. But what exactly, for the love of god, you pad on Dragons?

Fact is most of the encounters have often adds, it is a popular mechanic in raids and Destruction is one of the best-equipped specs to handle it. Just look at Nighthold - you have 1 truly ST encounter and all the rest have adds coming regularly, which you need to kill ASAP.

Destruction does not need 100% uptime on adds to do well and with the buffs in 7.1.5 that % needed got smaller.

you're absolutely correct but dont make it sound like destro is the only spec that got buffed, yes destro will be better at cleaving non-stacked adds, but on stacked adds they will get a lot of competition and definately wont be the best at it.

[Jondar]

its hardly the majority, its half at best and even then thats stretching it and even then thats no where near 100% of the time, the only fight i was looking at was cenarius bcoz that is really the only fight where there is anything to pad since the other encounters stuff needs to die anyway hence not padding

You know the definition of majority is not subjective, right? And even if it isn't 100% of the time.. who said that was necessary for Destruction to shine? The more uptime, the better. Yes. But close to 100% is not necessary for Destruction to do its job.

As for Cenarius, lol @ thinking Destruction doesn't do insane priority damage on targets other than the Drakes.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ue&hostility=1

#1 Warlock on that fight - #1 damage done to Ancient, Twisted Sister, Entangling Roots, second on Wisp (I guess that means Fire Mages are better. Other targets were just padding)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...translate=true

#2 Warlock on that fight - #1 damage done to Ancient, Twisted Sister, Entangling Roots, third on Wisp

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ue&hostility=1

these results are very consistent with every good Warlock.

This is the problem with inexperienced people going to look at Warcraft Logs to determine how they feel about their class. Your argument is based on being on the sidelines. You don't understand what you are looking at when you see those statistics.

you're absolutely correct but also absolutely wrong, what you dont get is that most other classes dont pad bcoz the things they dps has to die anyway, hence no padding, but when a destro lock starts padding on the dragons on cenarius, adds that dont need to die btw which you know as well as i do, then if a destro locks does well on that fight then it is 100% bcoz of them padding bcoz they are the only class that can actually pad on that fight unless ofc you're tanking the dragons on the boss.

This makes literally no sense.

i never said that, or atleast not the way you said, what i meant is that there was no way the person in question could consistantly get into top 3 unless the other players either suck or is undergeared, if you can get into top 3 on guarm hc or xavius otherwise then your raid sucks, and you know it.

I did not say anything about Guarm HC and why on earth can a Destruction Walrock not get into the top 3 on Xavius?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

All three Warlock specs are in the top 5 statistics of WCL; the only class they pale in comparison to is Shadow Priest but if the results of good Shadow Priests are your standard you are way out of your comfort zone in this discussion.

Please, stop.

[Gaidax]

you're absolutely correct but dont make it sound like destro is the only spec that got buffed, yes destro will be better at cleaving non-stacked adds, but on stacked adds they will get a lot of competition and definately wont be the best at it.

Yes they won't, but it does not change the fact that when you reach, for example, Star Augur where critically important adds do not perfectly nicely stack on top of your melee deathball you gonna wish you had someone who can nuke Thing That Should Not Be AND Star Augur at the same time, instead of padding the abundant small adds.

[Deleted]

i never said destro couldnt do good priority dmg.

and the statistic you linked, it doesnt exactly show everything, i know for a fact that the only reason fire mages do well on xavius is bcoz of all the damn padding they do in the last phase, even if they cant really prevent it with how ignite works, so it doesnt really show anything, for all i know the destro locks intentionally padded the last phase.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes they won't, but it does not change the fact that when you reach, for example, Star Augur where critically important adds do not perfectly nicely stack on top of your melee deathball you gonna wish you had someone who can nuke Thing That Should Not Be AND Star Augur at the same time, instead of padding the abundant small adds.

that is completely true, and afaik destro is one, if not the only class that can do it, i dont recall any spec that can cleave 2 non-stacked targets and not lose dps, ofc there is multidotting but that is not the same, so in that case i can only agree.

[Baconeggcheese]

aye and that is what he'd have to do to get into that top 3 spot he claimed he was consistantly getting

On cenarius? I'm usually top on that fight until the spriest kicks in during execute and I've never once hit the dragons. If you're having issues on that fight the problem isn't the class.

[Deleted]

On cenarius? I'm usually top on that fight until the spriest kicks in during execute and I've never once hit the dragons. If you're having issues on that fight the problem isn't the class.

same here. This is our fight, even without dragons.

[burek]

On cenarius? I'm usually top on that fight until the spriest kicks in during execute and I've never once hit the dragons. If you're having issues on that fight the problem isn't the class.

the problem is the lack of bis legendaries from which you unfortunatelly do not suffer

[SpikeySquad]

I still remember running around firing off spells just cause we could out of the sheer fun factor. I fully expected blizz to expand on movement for casters in WoD but instead they chose to regress gameplay. I reject their current idea of what destruction warlocks should be and hope they realize it is a mistake.

I am actually pretty happy with the mobility of Destro (until I will "have" to play RB again). Demo could use a little help in my opinion especially if the fights are becoming heavier movement but the shoes will probably help with that (the issue being that probably not that many people have them). Not that I have played it much yet in a raid but Affliction seems fine too as long as you plan ahead.

In my opinion there is definitely such a thing as too much mobility and I personally disliked the MoP approach. Of course some classes will always be more mobile and hence we may get hit harder than others in Nighthold.

[Lucrece]

the problem is the lack of bis legendaries from which you unfortunatelly do not suffer

OMG this again? Other classes are just as dependent on good legendaries for output.

Grab a demonhunter and check his single target logs without their legendary ring. It's absolute night and day.

Grab a moonkin without emerald dreamcatcher. GG, 50k DPS difference. Unholy DK with/without bracers.

Try an affliction lock without the helm or a demo lock without sindorei spite.

Stop acting like it's only destro that relies on legendaries.

[Rogalicus]

On cenarius? I'm usually top on that fight until the spriest kicks in during execute and I've never once hit the dragons. If you're having issues on that fight the problem isn't the class.

Just for a reference if we get there: how is it possible? Going with ST talents for the fight? Cleaving Cenarius even with thorns up?

[burek]

OMG this again? Other classes are just as dependent on good legendaries for output.

Grab a demonhunter and check his single target logs without their legendary ring. It's absolute night and day.

Grab a moonkin without emerald dreamcatcher. GG, 50k DPS difference. Unholy DK with/without bracers.

Try an affliction lock without the helm or a demo lock without sindorei spite.

Stop acting like it's only destro that relies on legendaries.

yes, so? remove your legendaries and then come tell stories about how good you are and how we are all shit

someone boasting about being top of dps meters in his raid just means he has the bis legendaries and others don't. it doesn't mean our class is fine, or that people need to learn to play or anything like that, it just means the legendary system is terrible.

[Gaidax]

Cleaving Cenarius even with thorns up?

Yes, you can absorb a lot of damage by popping Dark Pact with Unending Resolve.

- - - Updated - - -

yes, so? remove your legendaries and then come tell stories about how good you are and how we are all shit

someone boasting about being top of dps meters in his raid just means he has the bis legendaries and others don't. it doesn't mean our class is fine, or that people need to learn to play or anything like that, it just means the legendary system is terrible.

Hardly, quite a lot of people can't play properly, not sure how this fact can be denied. Legendaries have their role for everyone equally, but they don't play your class for you.

[burek]

Hardly, quite a lot of people can't play properly, not sure how this fact can be denied. Legendaries have their role for everyone equally, but they don't play your class for you.

oh look, an idiot with bis legendaries telling us how we should get good

Infracted

[Gaidax]

oh look, an idiot with bis legendaries telling us how we should get good

Oh look, another *cough* person who thinks legendaries play the spec for you.

[Deleted]

oh look, an idiot with bis legendaries telling us how we should get good

Zzzzz legendaries helps but they are not as much of a gamechanger as you think... its mainly a l2p issue or maybe a bad tactic from your guild or even just bad execution of the tactic with many people dying wich results in lower dps in the end.

[Rogalicus]

Yes, you can absorb a lot of damage by popping Dark Pact with Unending Resolve.

Thanks, I'm going to try that trick.

[Dwill]

oh look, an idiot with bis legendaries telling us how we should get good

Yeah, that 5% increase in damage is what's holding you back, for serious.

[Violetti]

Yeah, that 5% increase in damage is what's holding you back, for serious.

more like 15% on bosses like guarm
on specs that struggle to hit the dmgreq per player thats a big deal
its a big deal in general