Is Odyn the key to N'Zoth?

[Teippi]

It seems, that the pillars will already be used during 7.2. At least the Aegis will (in the 5-man instance).

I'm pretty sure, that the Lord of Ravens refers to Khadgar, he's in possesion of Atiesh and Medivh pretty much confirms, that he is the Guardian (whether he wants to or not). He is also the one actively seeking out the Pillars of Creation during the pre-quests to Legion.

The really hard riddle to me is "the hour of her third death". I Don't know who already died twice. Maybe it's not a person, but an institution like Horde/Alliance). I also thought of Dalaran, but it only got wrecked once.

Im still on the train that Odyn is the lord of the ravens. He has ravens as his pets and the area around Halls of Valor instance is filled with ravens (its not accident that they are there). One of the only locations in the game where there are ravens.

And my guess on the third death thingy would be Helya in the ToV raid since that releases Odyn. (first she died when she was made into Valkyr, second time when Loken released her from Odyn's control (pure speculation) and finally her third death in the raid)

[Deleted]

Im still on the train that Odyn is the lord of the ravens. He has ravens as his pets and the area around Halls of Valor instance is filled with ravens (its not accident that they are there). One of the only locations in the game where there are ravens.

And my guess on the third death thingy would be Helya in the ToV raid since that releases Odyn. (first she died when she was made into Valkyr, second time when Loken released her from Odyn's control (pure speculation) and finally her third death in the raid)

Could very well be. When I think of "Lord of ravens" I really don't think about Odyn, but that could just be me. :P They really pushed Karazahn and Odyn lately, so it could be both.

[Alanar]

Lei Shen took them, so it's possible he has now recovered them since we killed him. He's had a year to do it at least, I can't remember what the timeframe for WoD was.

True, but were do you keep such power? the essence of Aman'thul just dissapered I though?

[Deleted]

The spirits of all titans vanished (with the exception of a small part of Aman'thul's spirit. That doesn't mean, that the keepers don't have any power.

[Zandalariprelate]

True, but were do you keep such power? the essence of Aman'thul just dissapered I though?

No, the essence still lives in wrathion which currently is hiding, maybe odyn would eat him to get the essence of his creator back, also wrathion when try to help only brought chaos and death.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

No, the essence still lives in wrathion which currently is hiding, maybe odyn would eat him to get the essence of his creator back, also wrathion when try to help only brought chaos and death.

Wrathion? He just has a big thunderstick empowered by something Lei Shen made with the power of Aman'Thul. Not the same thing at all.

[Teippi]

Wrathion? He just has a big thunderstick empowered by something Lei Shen made with the power of Aman'Thul. Not the same thing at all.

He also ate Lei Shen's hearth.

[turboether]

"At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming." could mean Azeroth. The Shattering, the Cataclysm, -> ?
"Her heart is empty and we have filled it" that could insinuate Azeroth is dead and N'Zoth is in her core, so a third cataclysmic event could unearth him.
"The king of diamonds has become a pawn" that could insinuate the voices Magni heard in the core were not Azeroth but N'Zoth and is being fooled.

Three of the four 'Raven Lords' (Odyn, Medivh, Khadgar) have the power to cause such an extinction event, my money would be on Khadgar likely out of some mistake or oversight.

[Wilfire]

You seek the Dream? It seeks you, too.

A presence... Something new, yet... Familiar. Yes...

Out! Out! You are not yet worthy!

Xavius, running from one master to the next, scrambling for power, yet defeated again and again. The God of the Deep picks a poor champion? Or, is there something else at play?

You are a pawn of forces unseen.

Odyn is not the only one that has been testing the player character. The Nightmare was the final trial that the player character had to pass (killing Xavius) before N'Zoth settled on him as his new champion, as evidenced by Il'gynoth's words.

As for Odyn...

You should ask him if he's considered Loken's final words to him. Go ahead.

Odyn knows exactly what he is doing. He has indeed considered Loken's final words and decided to throw his lot with N'Zoth. Player character is the one who will collect all the 5 keys to N'Zoth's prison and Odyn will use his authority as the Prime Designate to quite literally turn them.

[Jaofindel]

And my guess on the third death thingy would be Helya in the ToV raid since that releases Odyn. (first she died when she was made into Valkyr, second time when Loken released her from Odyn's control (pure speculation) and finally her third death in the raid)

Didnt sylvanas died twice already?

[Deleted]

Didnt sylvanas died twice already?

How many times must it be said for you people to understand she died 3 times

[Ealyssa]

It was always meant to lead into Legion, but yeah, they REALLY dropped the ball on most of the story threads.

I'm personnaly sure it wasn't actually the case until after WoD launch. Grom was meant to be THE bad guy of WoD and WoD the "new BC" orc invasion of Azeroth, us pushing back to draenor and seeing the world as it was before.

But then WoD became an empty piece of shit. No story, no gameplay content, nothing. Nobody really knows why outside blizzard but WoD was horribly managed (and that's a fact, no matter if you even liked WoD. I personaly still enjoyed it, played the whole extension).
IMO its when they started to push Guldan more and more in the front scene against Kadhgar that Blizzard saw an opportunity to introduce Legion the way it was.

And to stay on topic. I'm also beting on Odyn to mess things up and leading to N'zoth. But not before the end of the next expansion, once/if the legion is actually over.

N'zoth will be the herald of the void lords, opening the "post demon" phase of warcraft.

We'll see in 3+ years

[AwkwardSquirtle]

He also ate Lei Shen's hearth.

Ah, so he did. Ignore me.

- - - Updated - - -

He also ate Lei Shen's hearth.

Ah, so he did. Ignore me.

[Zandalariprelate]

[QUOTE=AwkwardSquirtle;43908742]Ah, so he did. Ignore me.

- - - Updated - - -

Now I think about it, could wrathion eating the hearth and gaining powers could be a shingeki no kyojin reference?

[delus]

Do I believe he would purposefully unleash N'Zoth? No. Do I believe he will screw up and do something that will lead to NZoth's return? Yes. Maybe he already has turned the key by having us kill Helya.

[Deleted]

Im still on the train that Odyn is the lord of the ravens. He has ravens as his pets and the area around Halls of Valor instance is filled with ravens (its not accident that they are there). One of the only locations in the game where there are ravens.

And my guess on the third death thingy would be Helya in the ToV raid since that releases Odyn. (first she died when she was made into Valkyr, second time when Loken released her from Odyn's control (pure speculation) and finally her third death in the raid)

I really like where you are heading with this theory. I kept thinking of "Her third death will usher in our coming" as that character being revived and doing something weird/horrible, but instead referring to Odyn. It just makes a lot of sense. Helya dying a third time (if it IS her third death indeed), set Odyn free and Odyn will be the key to unchain N'Zoth from his prison entirely (by accident or intentionally).

Odyn is not the only one that has been testing the player character. The Nightmare was the final trial that the player character had to pass (killing Xavius) before N'Zoth settled on him as his new champion, as evidenced by Il'gynoth's words.

As for Odyn...
Odyn knows exactly what he is doing. He has indeed considered Loken's final words and decided to throw his lot with N'Zoth. Player character is the one who will collect all the 5 keys to N'Zoth's prison and Odyn will use his authority as the Prime Designate to quite literally turn them.

That along with the quotes from the npcs you posted is a very interesting Topic. I'd like to further discuss that aswell. Probably in a seperate topic.


On a different note:
It is interesting that people bring up "N'Zoth will corrupt our world while we are on Argus", which could happen, but there are a few questions open for that to happen.

1. I doubt all of Azeroth's civilization is moving to Argus, infact I only think it will be a small portion of us (and friends). A force as big as when we landed on the Broken Shore I want to believe. So there are still lots and lots of People remaining on Azeroth in our Absence, including the Titan-Forged Keepers (such as Odyn and his Ulduar gang), the Wild Gods (spirits) + Cenarius, the Elemental Lords, the remaining Dragon Aspects (even if they lost most of their power (they didn't lose all of it as seen from Ysera), they still have their dragonflight) and various other high and might creatures/npcs. Remember that the old Black Empire was reigned by FOUR old gods, now there is only ONE truly remaining, and he is said to be the weakest one of those four. So it is extremely hard for him to overcome all the remaining Forces on Azeroth by himself. The Emerald Nightmare was his best opportunity thus far and it hardly made it out of the Druid's powers.

I think it's likelier that while we are gone, Odyn will possibly do something on Azeroth meanwhile and when we come back we won't be facing a corrupted Azeroth, but possibly join a battle of Odyn+Others against the N'Zoth and his forces which will decide the fate of Azeroth or maybe just even a Portal that leads us to the depths of the sea/Ny'Alotha (whatever it may be).

[Faenlyn]

"Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below."

Xal'atath whispers: "Odyn was a great enemy... until his own arrogance proved his undoing. You should ask him if he's considered Loken's final words to him. Go ahead." -

Xal'atath whispers: "Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far.

These 3 quotes confirm for me that Odyn is a corrupted Keeper and is on the side of N'Zoth. Through some fault of arrogrance or pride Odyn became corrupted. Notice Xal'atath whispers "Odyn was a great enemy.. until..." Was as in the past tense and is not an enemy anymore

What we see in the fight between Helya and Odyn is Helya attempting to imprison Odyn and battle him as best as she can. We are fed a story about how she hates him because of her forced conversion into Valkyr and his creation of the Valajar etc but from the quotes above it seems more likely to me that she is battling him because she realized he was in fact evil. Odyn just gives us that other story to make us think that Helya is some kind of psycho who has a grudge against him.

The fact that she uses undead and shadow is because that is all she has available to her. She is fighting as hard as she can with the tools she has available. Meanwhile Odyn uses supposed shining armies of the light in his hall of Valor but in fact the shine hides corruption. That explains the quote "Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below." I dont think thats a reference to Hellheim but rather to the corruption underneath the supposed purity of the Halls of Valor.

That takes us to "Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far". I believe that refers to the fact that Helya is fighting Odyn because she believes he is actually being evil but even she does not realize that he is in fact Old God corrupted. She may realize at the end though because when we kill her in the raid and free Odyn she screams at us something to the effect of "You cannot free him! You do not realize what you have done!"

[Deleted]

These 3 quotes confirm for me that Odyn is a corrupted Keeper and is on the side of N'Zoth. Through some fault of arrogrance or pride Odyn became corrupted. Notice Xal'atath whispers "Odyn was a great enemy.. until..." Was as in the past tense and is not an enemy anymore

What we see in the fight between Helya and Odyn is Helya attempting to imprison Odyn and battle him as best as she can. We are fed a story about how she hates him because of her forced conversion into Valkyr and his creation of the Valajar etc but from the quotes above it seems more likely to me that she is battling him because she realized he was in fact evil. Odyn just gives us that other story to make us think that Helya is some kind of psycho who has a grudge against him.

The fact that she uses undead and shadow is because that is all she has available to her. She is fighting as hard as she can with the tools she has available. Meanwhile Odyn uses supposed shining armies of the light in his hall of Valor but in fact the shine hides corruption. That explains the quote "Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below." I dont think thats a reference to Hellheim but rather to the corruption underneath the supposed purity of the Halls of Valor.

That takes us to "Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far". I believe that refers to the fact that Helya is fighting Odyn because she believes he is actually being evil but even she does not realize that he is in fact Old God corrupted. She may realize at the end though because when we kill her in the raid and free Odyn she screams at us something to the effect of "we do not realize what we have done!"

Interesting, yet there are two questions that point my interpretation in a different direction:

1. Who is/was Helya serving? Neptulon, an old god (N'Zoth) or noone? N'Zoth seems the most likely to me due to the abilities she uses ("corrupted breath" for example) and her appearance of tentacles (a major trait of void manifestations/lovecraft lore).
2. What meaning does "Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far." truly have? To my Interpretation that implies that Helya was corrupted, but didn't succeed entirely with whatever purpose the old gods had planned for her. Just how they talk about the Void Lords being the true masters and the Naaru being the villains. So the "truth" the old gods whisper to us about it is more likely to be something we disagree with.

[klaps_05]

So if someone is manipulating Odyn to make us kill Helya, the result is Illidan coming back to life. Then in Nighthold we have Sargeras trying to get into Illidans body, Khadgar does something stupid with the Eye of Amanthul, and something bad happens. Meanwhile Illidan also closes Guldans portal and Guldan is vaporized.

[Faenlyn]

Interesting, yet there are two questions that point my interpretation in a different direction:

1. Who is/was Helya serving? Neptulon, an old god (N'Zoth) or noone? N'Zoth seems the most likely to me due to the abilities she uses ("corrupted breath" for example) and her appearance of tentacles (a major trait of void manifestations/lovecraft lore).
2. What meaning does "Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far." truly have? To my Interpretation that implies that Helya was corrupted, but didn't succeed entirely with whatever purpose the old gods had planned for her. Just how they talk about the Void Lords being the true masters and the Naaru being the villains. So the "truth" the old gods whisper to us about it is more likely to be something we disagree with.

N'Zoth could be especially tricky Old God as far as going forth and corrupting both sides so whichever side wins, N'Zoth still wins. Odyn is corrupted by some fault of pride or arrogance that Xal alludes to and Helya is corrupted through her hate of Odyn. Perhaps some of Odyn's corruption was revealed to her intentionally in order to make her fight him and create an opening for her corruption while allowing her to believe that she is in fact a misunderstood hero.

That leads to her cult being close to the truth yet so far. She leads a cult that has a sense of Odyn's corruption but doesnt realize how far and deep it has spread and doesnt realize its infected them as well.