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  1. #461
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denpepe View Post
    Coffee lake is 14 nm still according to this http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lak...e-in-disguise/
    Still doesn't change my point though as it's based upon 10nm Cannonlake and is delayed.
    Makes Coffee Lake still mostly useless vs. Kaby Lake as they show in your link 45W max. still and is a successor to Cannonlake, in essence AFTER and not before.

    Unless Intel has found some miracle die shrink I doubt they can go from Kaby Lake 4-core 7700K 95W TDP to a Coffee Lake 6-core variant with 45W TDP.
    Not even if they completely remove the iGPU will that be attained, it's not that effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denpepe View Post
    And while the new x-line of CPU's will still be LGA2066 it will use a X299 chipset iso the older x99 http://wccftech.com/intel-x299-chips...x-kaby-lake-x/
    I don't really understand your point with this one?
    I stated it was LGA 2066 which is a new socket and chipset, current generation is LGA2011-V3.
    The point I was making was to state that it's weird to use such a large socket and then power Kaby Lake-X 4C/8T and Coffee Lake-X 6C/12T with it.
    Keep in mind that this is meant as Intel's HEDT (High-End DeskTop) line but reduce the core amount to the "normal" consumer line.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    I don't really understand your point with this one?
    I stated it was LGA 2066 which is a new socket and chipset, current generation is LGA2011-V3.
    The point I was making was to state that it's weird to use such a large socket and then power Kaby Lake-X 4C/8T and Coffee Lake-X 6C/12T with it.
    Keep in mind that this is meant as Intel's HEDT (High-End DeskTop) line but reduce the core amount to the "normal" consumer line.
    Got a bit mixed up with the 2011 and 2066 socket, but if they want this mobo's to last a couple of generations of CPU's like currently, it can't hurt to have an entry lvl CPU which can later be replaced with a more powerfull one with more cores, less money to be spent on a new motherboard is more money left for CPU or other parts.

  3. #463
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denpepe View Post
    Got a bit mixed up with the 2011 and 2066 socket, but if they want this mobo's to last a couple of generations of CPU's like currently, it can't hurt to have an entry lvl CPU which can later be replaced with a more powerfull one with more cores, less money to be spent on a new motherboard is more money left for CPU or other parts.
    Except that because of it's size/features it will host a starting price of $/€ 250,-
    Following that building on LGA 2066 will be expensive as fck as well due to the fact that you're wasting space and money to enable that size.

    There is no financial reason to do as such really in multiple different architecture steps.

    If it were a single architecture point it might've made sense but not like you're suggesting.

    Edit:
    Forgot to add that you're going from Skylake-X (10C/20T), which is an earlier architecture step, to Kaby Lake-X(4C/8T)...
    How does that promote your kit when you go from a monstrous Skylake chip to a tiny Kaby Lake chip on a HEDT platform?

    Think about it this way:
    Content creator buys Skylake-X 10C/20T CPU and mobo.
    Content creator waits 1,5 - 2 years to possibly see Coffee Lake-X only to see it's 6C/12T.
    Content creator looks at the overall performance and notices that Skylake 10C/20T still DECIMATES Coffee Lake-X
    Content creator scratches head and thinks: "Why is it that the HEDT line does not get the refinements of Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake without sacrificing 60% (Kaby Lake-X) or 40% (Coffee Lake-X) of it's power?!"

    I don't know WTF is going on but it simply doesn't make logical sense.
    Last edited by Evildeffy; 2016-12-24 at 02:33 AM.

  4. #464
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    Well, basically this means we are again back in this FX situation where FX is really great at mass multi-threading and pretty shit at actual games.

    Maybe if they release some 4/6 cores version with massively boosted clocks (if even possible) it will be able to compete with Intel properly when it comes to gaming.

  5. #465
    Warchief Zenny's Avatar
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    Looks like Broadwell has about 5-6% better IPC. Skylake should be around 10% then. Curious to see what the overclocking potential of Zen is. Kabylake can get 5Ghz or more while the 8 core Broadwell chips can get around 4.5Ghz.

  6. #466
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorianrage View Post
    The Ryzen results still is better, so impressive showing, would love to do the Handbrake bench but don't seem to find the file they used assuming they released it.
    Use the output file from Blender.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    Looks like Broadwell has about 5-6% better IPC. Skylake should be around 10% then. Curious to see what the overclocking potential of Zen is. Kabylake can get 5Ghz or more while the 8 core Broadwell chips can get around 4.5Ghz.
    I really would not count on hitting 5 GHz on the Kabulake. People are hitting 90+ degrees on the 5 GHz mark on the Kabylake, so unless you are running a costom watterloop or Delid it i would not set my hopes up for the 5 GHz mark

    delidded core i7 7700k runs 26 degrees c cooler
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  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well, basically this means we are again back in this FX situation where FX is really great at mass multi-threading and pretty shit at actual games.

    Maybe if they release some 4/6 cores version with massively boosted clocks (if even possible) it will be able to compete with Intel properly when it comes to gaming.
    Does it though? The tested chip is an old engineering sample.

  9. #469
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Fitzherbert View Post
    Does it though? The tested chip is an old engineering sample.
    No it's not, it's a review of finished product that was sent to reviewer under NDA. It's not "old engineering sample".

    The time of the "old engineering samples" is long past, we're month before release and reviewers got the review samples on hands, one of them happened to leak his review.

    Really, it makes sense, pretty much, you do not fancy 8/16 CPU being clocked at 3.4GHz to top Intel's quad cores that clock 1GHz+ higher in games, which usually tend to prefer stronger per-core performance over lots of slower cores.

    It's about to be FX all over again - great in theory, not so much in practical use. If AMD pop out a 4GHz baseline quadcore with IPC approaching that of Intel's latest and greatest, it may end up being whole other deal, but I don't think they will be able to.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-12-24 at 10:44 AM.

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  11. #471
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    I'll be glad to be wrong, but miracles a month before launch don't happen, as was proved time and time again.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I'll be glad to be wrong, but miracles a month before launch don't happen, as was proved time and time again.
    I sure hope you are, else we have multiple websites reporting fake news, as well as the author from a reputable magazine.

  13. #473
    Warchief Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pansertjald View Post
    I really would not count on hitting 5 GHz on the Kabulake. People are hitting 90+ degrees on the 5 GHz mark on the Kabylake, so unless you are running a costom watterloop or Delid it i would not set my hopes up for the 5 GHz mark

    delidded core i7 7700k runs 26 degrees c cooler
    https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...delid.2493250/

    Little bit of work and a good cooler nets you 5Ghz.

  14. #474
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...delid.2493250/

    Little bit of work and a good cooler nets you 5Ghz.
    If by "little bit of work" means you need to delid then yes.
    You're not doing that, even with a hefty cooler, on non-delid CPUs.
    As multiple sources of leaked overclockers with retail samples say you get about 4,8GHz before temps start going out of control with the Voltage needed.

    That said a lot of people don't want to delid as their warranty will go up in smoke.
    Others do not give a flying toss and if you want the safest way to delid then I recommend getting the Rockit 88 delidding tool.

    I remain of the opinion that Intel is a dick for pulling this TIM crap again though.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...delid.2493250/

    Little bit of work and a good cooler nets you 5Ghz.
    Delidding is not a "little bit of work". It voids the warranty on the part, you have to fossick around with the cooler mount bracket (because if you don't you'll crack the die) and you have to be rather good at selecting a TIM and applying it (especially if you use a metal alloy TIM due to the fact that metal conducts electricity and liquid metal alloys like to form alloys with other metals that they come in contact with - for example the contact plate of the heatsink).

  16. #476
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Delidding is not a "little bit of work". It voids the warranty on the part, you have to fossick around with the cooler mount bracket (because if you don't you'll crack the die) and you have to be rather good at selecting a TIM and applying it (especially if you use a metal alloy TIM due to the fact that metal conducts electricity and liquid metal alloys like to form alloys with other metals that they come in contact with - for example the contact plate of the heatsink).
    Well whilst what you are saying is correct .. having the "Rockit 88" de-lidding tool makes things a lot easier though.
    And it allows for re-lidding it if you have the proper glue for it, just make sure it is not as thick as the Intel one.

    And you'd have a "normal" CPU again though yes warranty is bye-bye.

  17. #477
    Warchief Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    If by "little bit of work" means you need to delid then yes.
    You're not doing that, even with a hefty cooler, on non-delid CPUs.
    As multiple sources of leaked overclockers with retail samples say you get about 4,8GHz before temps start going out of control with the Voltage needed.

    That said a lot of people don't want to delid as their warranty will go up in smoke.
    Others do not give a flying toss and if you want the safest way to delid then I recommend getting the Rockit 88 delidding tool.

    I remain of the opinion that Intel is a dick for pulling this TIM crap again though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Delidding is not a "little bit of work". It voids the warranty on the part, you have to fossick around with the cooler mount bracket (because if you don't you'll crack the die) and you have to be rather good at selecting a TIM and applying it (especially if you use a metal alloy TIM due to the fact that metal conducts electricity and liquid metal alloys like to form alloys with other metals that they come in contact with - for example the contact plate of the heatsink).
    Delidding does drop the temp, but doesn't appear to be needed in all cases, looking over the results a second user got 5Ghz with temperatures peaking at 75c.

  18. #478
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    Delidding does drop the temp, but doesn't appear to be needed in all cases, looking over the results a second user got 5Ghz with temperatures peaking at 75c.
    I'll wait and see some more retail samples go out to reviewers etc.
    Because so far all the reports I read is that it CAN do 5GHz ... if you're willing to live with 90+ degrees C on a hefty cooler.

  19. #479
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Who cares if the i7 7700k can do 5Ghz when it costs more than what most gamers are willing to pay. The argument is stupid anyway cause we know Intel is still going to be the fastest. That has been established. But rarely do people go buy i7 CPUs. According to Steam, half of them are still using dual core CPUs. Half of the gaming population is still going by Athlon 64 X2 standards.

  20. #480
    So ya that french benchmark kinda shows what ive been saying, AMD has done a fine job with zen but gaming really isnt their primary concern.....even if they said "gaming" 500 times in that conference they had the other day lol. They can still win with a well priced 4c 8t chip (id possibly consider one if it was priced close to an unlocked i5) but i am afraid its going to be the same story all over again with gaming.

    I think the most exciting CPU for 2017 is the unlocked i3, that thing could be the go to chip for many many gamers if it really is priced at 125 bucks.

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