AP system - my situation

[Shammyrock]

No, that's not true. You can buy account bound research comendiums (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=144435/a...m-volumes-i-iv). They will give up to your highest AK -5, so if you have AK25 when the patch hits you will be able to buy the level 20 one for an alt.

For new players you can buy AR synopsis (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=144395/a...arch-synopsis), this will get new players directly to AK 15. They already said they might want to adjust the starting AK during Blizzcon, and since the patch is rather late now it might be possible they even increase this.

Yeah I thought it was this.

[rogoth]

I get the train of thought, but there's over 4 months in between EN and NH, that's over twice any amount of time that were in between these "half-tiers" so far. I am under no illusion either that NH will be the same difficulty as EN. Nobody in their right mind will be doing EN anymore once NH releases, just as any serious raid team stopped doing MSV and highmaul when the next best stuff was out. And blizzard wants them to, if you remember they buffed the ilvl of BRF because there was little incentive to move on. Move on, to the next thing, next tier.

These were all fun entry level raids, in no way would I consider them to be the same tier. They're starting points, loot pinatas, preparation for "the real thing".
Same tier is ToeS and HoF, Naxx/Obsidian sanctum/EoE, blackwing descent/bastion of twilight/throne, BT+Hyjal, SSC+TK, you get the point.

problem is, when NH releases the ilvl ceiling will be raised to 925, 940 for legendary items (from the PTR data available), as a result, people will still be running EN on mythic for chances at titanforging some of the very powerful items in there, specifically relics, and some very specific trinkets to go alongside the NH gear they will be getting to replace some of the EN/M+ gear they are wearing right now, and in response to your point about the other similar style raids in the past, blizzard has categorised EN as the first "tier" of legion raiding content, nighthold is officially "second tier" of raiding content, as has been proven by the fact that once nighthold releases on live you will no longer be able to acquire the FoS for curve/cutting edge on xavius, with the wording on the achievement very specific to "the next tier of content".

[kary]

problem is, when NH releases the ilvl ceiling will be raised to 925, 940 for legendary items (from the PTR data available), as a result, people will still be running EN on mythic for chances at titanforging some of the very powerful items in there, specifically relics, and some very specific trinkets to go alongside the NH gear they will be getting to replace some of the EN/M+ gear they are wearing right now, and in response to your point about the other similar style raids in the past, blizzard has categorised EN as the first "tier" of legion raiding content, nighthold is officially "second tier" of raiding content, as has been proven by the fact that once nighthold releases on live you will no longer be able to acquire the FoS for curve/cutting edge on xavius, with the wording on the achievement very specific to "the next tier of content".

Cutting edge was always till the next instance though.
You couldn't get cutting edge shek'zeer any more when ToES launched, nor Imperator when BRF launched.
Nothing has changed this expansion but the time given (which was something they said they'd do after the HM > BRF debacle)

[Glaziola]

Cutting edge was always till the next instance though.
You couldn't get cutting edge shek'zeer any more when ToES launched, nor Imperator when BRF launched.
Nothing has changed this expansion but the time given (which was something they said they'd do after the HM > BRF debacle)

This information is actually wrong, you could have gotten the FoS for MSV and HoF (at least the Ahead of the curve) during ToES. Those achievements were gone after ToT release.
So indeed Blizzard changed things this expansion.

[Beazzles]

I cant reply to all the people out there specifically but a lot of people saying am a lier... am not why would i even make such a thing up.

Tbh there are some people that understand my problem here and i appriciate that... the rest are just ignorant wanting to say their bit like
.. you are lazy, noob, i dinged 3 days ago and am lvl 20ak, i dinged yesterday and i have 3 golden traits already... whatever. My sub ends in 16 days and i wont renew, you all deserve the wow you get nowadays case closed i dont need any more "help" or understanding from this community, am clealry in the wrong and a noob that in order to play my char properly ill have to wait to catch up to others in 3-4 months.

lolbai

You should log on to your lock buddies toons, have them log onto yours. See if there is still that 100k DPS gap because of your weapon... lolol

[kary]

This information is actually wrong, you could have gotten the FoS for MSV and HoF (at least the Ahead of the curve) during ToES. Those achievements were gone after ToT release.
So indeed Blizzard changed things this expansion.

Fair, however, then it would have been changed in draenor

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This information is actually wrong, you could have gotten the FoS for MSV and HoF (at least the Ahead of the curve) during ToES. Those achievements were gone after ToT release.
So indeed Blizzard changed things this expansion.

Also i was referring to cutting edge, not ahead of the curve but your point is still relevant

[Deleted]

HM and BRF are different tiers. HM no set and BRF had class sets.
HoF and Toes yes! Same tier

lol NO Hm and brf are/where same tier, pretty sure even blizz had said it. And Nh adn En AND tov are all first tier.

[Sting]

problem is, when NH releases the ilvl ceiling will be raised to 925, 940 for legendary items (from the PTR data available), as a result, people will still be running EN on mythic for chances at titanforging some of the very powerful items in there, specifically relics, and some very specific trinkets to go alongside the NH gear they will be getting to replace some of the EN/M+ gear they are wearing right now, and in response to your point about the other similar style raids in the past, blizzard has categorised EN as the first "tier" of legion raiding content, nighthold is officially "second tier" of raiding content, as has been proven by the fact that once nighthold releases on live you will no longer be able to acquire the FoS for curve/cutting edge on xavius, with the wording on the achievement very specific to "the next tier of content".

Ah good point with the feats of strength.

As for the chances of titanforging, from what we've seen with world quests is that the chance to actually get such a high upgrade is abysmally low. In the end, it's probably more practical to farm trinkets from the current instance with a higher base ilvl, assuming power levels between trinkets aren't as skewed as they are now. As for relics, I'm not a 100% sure, but I believe mythic+ has every variation you could think of, so it's probably more practical to target a specific instance instead of hoping for an extreme titanforge from a raid boss.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Best solution to the AP problem is just not be a pussy. This is a video game. If I am playing Zelda and I decided to start over I still got the wooden sword and no items. Like most things in life when you make the choice to start over you start over. Which is why you need to make choices based on things like what you enjoy and have fun with instead of flavor of the month garbage that will want you to reroll every couple of months.

[Sting]

Fair, however, then it would have been changed in draenor

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Also i was referring to cutting edge, not ahead of the curve but your point is still relevant

Nothing changed in draenor, you could get cutting edge imperator all the way until 6.2 launched.

[JoshuaNLG]

You're not pulling 100k less DPS because of the Artifact traits, getting 3 golds on any weapon at this stage in the game (and also taking into account your current AK level of 14) is not going to be hard, if you're doing 100k less DPS than the other warlocks in your guild, they either have substantially better gear than you, better trinkets, or you're just playing your class/spec incredibly poorly.

[Deleted]

So, long story short, OP is crying that after reroll he is behind of people who were farming ap and playing his characters 2 months longer? Damn.

[DarthMonk79]

First off... what kind of raiding guild are you in? Are they mythic/heroic EN? Or heroic ToV? doing over 200k dps is still fine for norm EN and some for heroic EN. I mean if your guild is benching someone just because your lower dps is the difference between 0.5% HP on the boss then they really are being anal about it.... half a percentage can be made up by anyone else on the team. Also as others have stated, the 3rd gold dragon on locks isn't that much of a increase so if there's that big of a gap between you and the other lock its not the gear or the item level or the AP.... its the skill. As also stated, unless your guild is a Top 50-100 guild then you not being as high on the AK and the AP as others really shouldn't be that big of a difference to get you benched. Otherwise feel free to join my guild. We got started really late this expansion because of real life issues but can always expand our team to include a few more dps and another healer..... and then finally... remember it is just a game!!! Have fun, do a decent amount of dungeons/world quests, etc to get your AK and AP and if your guild expects you to put in more than sorry but they are loons and off the deep end of reality. I mean the game is another year older which means we are all another year older. Eventually real life is gonna take more and more time away from the game.

[Super Kami Dende]

There is no way thats true at all so you tell me you got time gated ak for 1 per 3 and a half days and you reached more than 15ak within 2 months it doesnt add up in maths mate.

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To people saying its 3 days its 3.5 days so close to ak 15 in 1 month and 20 days.

Also so many people in this post thinking its only 1 treat am missing no am missing 10 traits thats why the dps loss exists................

My AK's complete in under 3 days. thats the entire point of the Catch up system.

[Deleted]

Are you a top mithyc raider OP? Then suck it up. Spending lots of hours grinding to get the best options comes with the gameplay you choose.

Are you in a heroic guild or even starting to progress in mythic now? You don't need full AP bis legs 895 soketed gear. If you get benched in that situation it is not because your guild cant clear content with you. It is because a) liders are shortsighted and just bring the best geared players when they can get the kills with all their rooster, b) liders don't want you to play in favor of closer friends or c) there are terrible players who have to be carried or liders with terrible tacts and leading skills, and the only way to get kills is balancing it with godly gear. In any of these 3 situarions I would hop to another guild.

In my guild we have cleared full heroic and we are starting to get mythic kills and as the main RL I don't know and I don't care if my raiders have 0 or 2 BiS legs or if someone comes with 28 traits or 48. We are killing the bosses anyway. GEAR IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

The comunity is creating a problem arround AP, RDM drops and Legs because guilds and pugs are lead by stupid liders who only care for gear and parses and not for skill and people.

[tratra]

Are you a top mithyc raider OP? Then suck it up. Spending lots of hours grinding to get the best options comes with the gameplay you choose.

Are you in a heroic guild or even starting to progress in mythic now? You don't need full AP bis legs 895 soketed gear. If you get benched in that situation it is not because your guild cant clear content with you. It is because a) liders are shortsighted and just bring the best geared players when they can get the kills with all their rooster, b) liders don't want you to play in favor of closer friends or c) there are terrible players who have to be carried or liders with terrible tacts and leading skills, and the only way to get kills is balancing it with godly gear. In any of these 3 situarions I would hop to another guild.

In my guild we have cleared full heroic and we are starting to get mythic kills and as the main RL I don't know and I don't care if my raiders have 0 or 2 BiS legs or if someone comes with 28 traits or 48. We are killing the bosses anyway. GEAR IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

The comunity is creating a problem arround AP, RDM drops and Legs because guilds and pugs are lead by stupid liders who only care for gear and parses and not for skill and people.

no idea what a lider is, you prolly didn't even read my thread but whatever most people dont anyway they just come in thinking this is a whinethread and come to flame.

[Tradu]

IMO the AK catch up should scale with how old legion is. So basic time is 5 days, then after certain time it drops to 4 and so on and so on, with 1 day being the maximum catch up. Seriously, being 4 months into expansion and first AKs still taking 3 days each is too long. While 7.1.5 will make it much much easier, the gate for new players still exists.

It did in beta, but they got rid of that so now they're forced to replace it with something else.

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My AK's complete in under 3 days. thats the entire point of the Catch up system.

No, they don't. They complete in exactly 3 days if you're far enough behind, never less than that.

[Seliar]

The other 2 warlocks in my guild pull around 450k dps on fights while am sitting on 350k dps which is 100k dps lost due to AP. My rotations/gear/spec etc are all same as theirs, potting flasking etc everything the same.

Show us a log, where you really did everything the same as the other locks... You may think that your rotation is the same while in reality it can be very bad. Unless they have bis legs there is no way they could pull so much more dps than you with the same rotation/gear/etc... Even if you would go with a lvl 10 weapon there shouldn't be a 30% difference. You must be doing something wrong and instead of trying to improve your skills, you are blaming the AP system.

[Deleted]

no idea what a lider is, you prolly didn't even read my thread but whatever most people dont anyway they just come in thinking this is a whinethread and come to flame.

Lider is leader or raid leader in that case. English is not my main language and sometimes a word gets out wrong. And I have read your post, and your other answers in the thread. And I have re read them now and reafirm in what I say.

I'm not flaming you. I'm flaming the ones who bench you because you have twentish traits in your weapon.

You look like you are starting to raid mythic now or ending heroic raids. As I said in my guild in which I'm the main RL we are starting to progress in mythic and we don't look at every raider AP lvl or legendaries. And we are geting the kills anyway. If you get benched it is not really for your weapon, it is because your raid leaders don't understand that it is not necessary to be perfectly geared to kill mythic content this late in the raid tier.

In my guild you would be raiding the same days as the dps's who grind AP non stop. We don't care about it. We are not the new Method. We are not gear fanatics. We just want to have everyone playing equally. And we are progressing in mythic now.

Gear is not that important. But the comunity is unable to understand that.

[MasterOfNone]

Why would they implement a catchup mechanism at the start of the expansion, basically?

i didnt say they did or should have. i said it wasnt in beta. what im getting at is that blizzard adds things in the game after the game goes live because of feedback. because they arent smart enough to figure shit out. they need millions of people screaming at them to fix "x" problem. if they knew exactly how this was going to go, then why are they adjusting legendary bad luck? why are professions still shit? what im saying here is they (once again) failed on major fronts here. now the expansion wasnt rushed. they had plenty of time to deliver. i just think they have the wrong people on the job for designing the game. ion hosikostas is an absolute moron imo.