Why is world content ROFLstomp?

[Lollis]

Except for one thing: People were new to the game.

Legion's world content = the most "challenging" it has ever been in comparison, considering you don't outlevel the mobs anymore. Add to that areas like the elite islands where there's usually group content and mobs have actual abilities beyond just auto-attacks.

The world is dangerous even in T2 gear.

That is not 'new to the game'

[Thage]

World content dangerous in T2 gear? What class did you play? Mongoloid?

I was about to say, unless maybe you quested as Holy Priest and were exceptionally bad at mana management and wanding, nothing except T2 raid mobs were a threat to T2 players. T2 was so strong that if you saw someone in AV kitted out in BWL gear odds are you were a goner and getting steamrolled without a real chance to fight back, doubly so if that was a rogue, hunter, or warrior. On-topic, the world isn't as dangerous as it was back in 'the good old days' due to a number of things including overall buffs to player power since 2005 (pound for pound a level 10 player now and a level 10 player then have as much disparity in damage done and health pools as a level 1 and a level 20 then, give or take a few numbers) and overall nerfs to mobs in Cataclysm and again in WoD due to the item level squish. Mobs in Legion content proper can be a threat to leveling players depending on gear level and class, but that's not too different from back then.

Especially in Suramar City, which functions largely the same way EPL, Blasted Lands, and Un'Goro did back then as the primary endgame zone. And when you're fresh to level cap, it's very much a bad idea for the average player to try to bullrush through the city to get from A to B without Masquerade up, and even then still a bad idea to rush through without taking care to avoid detecting mobs (though this is less of an issue around 850 ilvl or so for most classes and specs). The only difference is the threat leveling mobs have, which has always been a by-product of the gear inflation in expansions.

Even as far back as BC, nobody regarded Felboars in Hellfire Peninsula or Windrocs in Nagrand as a threat once they hit 70 and geared up in dungeons. Nobody in DS2 or t1 who didn't get carried through considered EPL or Burning Steppes mobs a threat. Frankly, unless you played an exceptionally squishy class or were negligent in keeping a supply of health/mana potions, food/water, and bandages on hand, by level 30 in Classic most players got over the "two mobs = death" hump. The only difference by then is everything just took longer because mana depleted faster, travel was slower, and gear levels climbed slower making it tricky to overgear without some creative twinking as you leveled.

Prior to then, it's a lack of defensive capabilities coupled with rapidly-draining mana pools and overtuned spell damage on mobs that created the mystique of a threatening world. All of which are a non-issue in modern WoW, as noted above vis a vis increasing player power across the board since TBC and nerfs in the Cata revamp and the WoD squish, and all of which would be difficult to incorporate into future expansion leveling with any elegance or dexterity without it being a slow ramp-up over multiple expansions (versus, say, simply putting up legacy servers and 'Pristine' servers for players seeking time-consuming leveling while leaving the retail game focused around endgame).

[Queen of Hamsters]

That is not 'new to the game'

... Not quite sure what you mean? Are you trying to validate his claim that the 1-60 world was a challenge in T2 or what?
My point still stands, the "mystery" of 1-60 leveling content being SUCH a challenge came from people being entirely new to the game. There were those from other MMORPG's/the Alpha/Beta that gunned for 60, and they didn't rack up deaths on their rush.

Challenging leveling content would come at the hands of optional modes making use of scaling tech and affix tech (from Mythic+), NOT rerolling to the "model" (lol) used in Classic. Why? Because it wouldn't come with a lobotomy for every damned player in order to pass it off as "difficult". Time consuming is the only effect they'd reach, and last time I checked "time consuming" is only a challenge if you can't stand grinds or struggle for time to play...

[jdbond592]

I always wonder just how bad most of these "whiney" Vanilla players were. They never sucked. Game was just that hard.

[Mirishka]

Having experienced vanilla world content I wonder why that model is no longer used. The world is dangerous even in T2 gear. In Legion the world was trivialized before I even set foot in a raid.

Funny, because there are areas in Suramar that will absolutely wreck you.

[Lollis]

... Not quite sure what you mean? Are you trying to validate his claim that the 1-60 world was a challenge in T2 or what?
My point still stands, the "mystery" of 1-60 leveling content being SUCH a challenge came from people being entirely new to the game. There were those from other MMORPG's/the Alpha/Beta that gunned for 60, and they didn't rack up deaths on their rush.

The OP stated that even in t2 there was a challenge, I said that there wasn't except in cases where you were deliberately idiotic in your playstyle, similar to how it is in Legion.

Levelling content was not a challenge either, it just took time. The occasional group quest caused problems perhaps, but there was nothing that uniquely made vanilla difficult compared to legion.

Even as a new player, yes I probably died a couple of times in elwynn's mines or to the occasional quest where I pulled like an idiot but again there was absolutely nothing especially difficult about the levelling experience, even as someone who had never set foot in an mmo before in my life.

Maybe I'm in the wrong position to say as I only levelled a Rogue and Mage past 30 in vanilla due to raids, and maybe they had much less issues than other classes, but I can quite honestly say that the only thing I think I ever found difficult about the levelling experience in those days was the downright terrible questing system and having to find where you have to go next when every quest is grey. I remember quite clearly purposefully grinding the lvl 35 elites outside of Uldaman simply so I could get some quests available without having to go across the other side of the world in an ON FOOT run to the next questing zone, having no mount until 40, that was 'a challenge'.

1-20 might have been a challenge for a brand spanking new mmo player i suppose, but 1-60 you seriously must have never played any game ever in your life to think that was difficult.


Don't get me wrong, there was a lot about vanilla that I loved and there was also a nice balance of content that did indeed have challenges for the time, certain bosses for example, and the Nefarian kill will forever go down as one of my most precious raiding nights. But there is a hell of a lot of rose tint that people wear about it all.

Yes, perhaps the comaraderie isn't the same as it was, and the whole familiarity of everyone on both sides of the server is completely gone. But there are plenty of things vanilla did NOT uniquely have compared to now, and difficulty is one of them.

[carenard]

Suramar's elite area says hi.

If you don't have raid gear (not LFR), you don't go there alone.

suramars elite area WQ's were soloable at ilvl810 as a shadow priest

sure... I actually did have to use my shield and heals, but beyond doable


and now... just dot everything and not care(as long as I don't exceed 8 elites... might need to care beyond that... might)

[HumbleDuck]

People love to forget that part. People crave the exploration and wonderment back with vanilla servers. I'm playing on one right now for shits and giggles and there's 0 sense of wonderment for me. I remember exactly where everything was and where I'm supposed to go..

Yea, that's an important note.
Recently I did make the same first character as I once made back in the day( dwarf warrior) on a private vanilla server, it's been extremely nostalgic, but not even close to levels of wonderment I felt back in the day.
This is a different time, content may seem easier, but I think people are too familiar with the game today that it makes creating content that is challenging and yet fair extremely hard.

[MrExcelion]

@Embriel This probably isn't what you're looking for but one solution would be to transfer to the dead faction on a very high pop PVP server

[Drekker17]

The only thing I recall being dangerous in old vanilla zones were a group of murlocs in Elwynn who were so close together and spawned fast that you could easily be overwhelmed with 5+ and die.

[Bryntrollian]

The world is dangerous even in T2 gear.

This is completely untrue

[Deleted]

Try leveling a shadow priest if you want dangerous world.

[Bathory]

There were about 3 places, not zone, that were dangerous in vanilla. Darkwhisper gorge in Winterspring, Tainted Scar in Blasted Lands, and Tyr's hand, EPL. Dangerous ZONES? Na, not in t2.

[Zoreyai]

World content dangerous in T2 gear? What class did you play? Mongoloid?

Tyr's Hand I guess.

[carenard]

Try leveling a shadow priest if you want dangerous world.

I leveled as shadow and had no issue at all, hell the world was for more dangerous to my boomkin while leveling

[Aeula]

Dangerous does not equal fun.

That said the current model isn't much fun either, but that's due to factors other than difficulty.

[Sandraudiga]

World content wasn't dangerous if you were fully T1 in vanilla, and became easily "ROFLstomp" as you put it in full T2-T3.

[Cernunnos]

Vanilla had;
Altraz Island in Dustwallow
Demons in Frostwhisper gorge in Winterspring
Demons in Tainted Scar in Blasted lands
Tyr's Hand in Eastern Plaguelands
The Elemental Council in Silithus
The trash surrounding the Emerald Dream Portals

Which were intended for groups, even if only small groups, but groups none the less. Until you outgeared it which was possible in around tier 2, if not tier 1 depending on class, mob location.

Legion has;
Shield's Rest in Stormheim
The Ettins outside Neltherion's Vault in Highmountain
The demons on Isle of the Watchers in Azsuna
The world accessable version of Eye of Azshara
The part of Suramar City that is the same as the Court of Stars dungeon.

At lower item levels and before max level these areas require groups, at higher item levels they are very much no different than non elite areas elsewhere in the world, quite comfortably soloable.

But outside of world quests at max level they don't offer much reason to go there so you typically avoid them. This was somewhat true of the vanilla zones too, if you weren't a priest doing your eye of divinity quest or a warlock doing your doomguard quest you had little reason to farm the demons in BL/winterspring, if you weren't clearing trash to get to the world bosses at the 4 portals you had little reason to be anywhere near them, even if they were in low level zones like duskwood and ashenvale.

[Lillyth]

Have you seen Suramar?