Destruction: I dont think the sky is falling

[Baconeggcheese]

I obv used an exaggerated example, but in best case killtime its more than 7%
And even if both combiend give you 10% its too much, I'm glad they are nerfing them.

Some things the nerfs make sense, others notsomuch. Belt for instance didn't really need to be touched as its increase was relatively minor and the nerf barely changes it, destro bracers on the other hand are bonkers and I was fully expecting the nerf.

Honestly though they just need to make everything have some dps value in practical situations which is easy enough to come up with. The piss off comes from the discrepancy between the strongest and the ones that literally do nothing, as opposed to two different dmg ones.

[Deleted]

More secondary stats on Utility legendaries !

btw @Baconeggcheese you are wrong about demo bracers. They incredible when combined with bloodlust and other cooldowns and benefit big time from it making Them a bigger increase than 30% for 25 seconds would seem to be

[Deleted]

People know legendaries are important. The point is, by implying that his success comes from his legendaries is implying that the people he plays with do not benefit from their legendaries. It's a bad point. All DPS legendaries are not so far off from one another (and by that I mean the DPS legendaries that actually effect your output) to the point where they are the reason someone does well.. and to imply that a raid group isn't stacked with people that have good legendaries is showing ignorance to where raidgroups are at.

And yes, it is easy to check logs. It's also easy to check simcrafts. Which is why I'm asking if you're high for thinking that this:



is an accurate way to calculate a legendaries worth.

this is wrong, for example the fire bracers is a 15ish% boost to their ST dps and is actually the sole reason a fire mage would do top tier dmg on ST atm, on a fight like guarm you'd do like 60-70k less dps, dunno about you but i think thats hell of a lot and the fire bracers arent even the best ones, saying that "All DPS legendaries are not so far off from one another to the point where they are the reason someone does well" certainly isnt true. with that said tho, i do believe what you said is true for locks, their legendaries are relatively lackluster compared to legendaries like the fire bracers.

[Lucrece]

More secondary stats on Utility legendaries !

btw @Baconeggcheese you are wrong about demo bracers. They incredible when combined with bloodlust and other cooldowns and benefit big time from it making Them a bigger increase than 30% for 25 seconds would seem to be

It's 30% every 3 minutes, and come 7.1.5 will be half of that at 15%.

For a specs like destro and affliction it is even worse because both of those use Supremacy, which means you have to hardcast a doomguard summon and waste a shard on resummoning your now stunned demon to even proc the bracers.

[burek]

people with bis legendaries now talking how they are worthless... go delete them then, play the game without them a few months and then come talking how everything is fine and how you are topping the meters in your raid

[Deleted]

people with bis legendaries now talking how they are worthless... go delete them then, play the game without them a few months and then come talking how everything is fine and how you are topping the meters in your raid

29 god damned pages in and you're still not getting it are you? BiS legendaries are nice to have but it does NOT magically make you 15 % stronger when it comes to dps. Stop being bad and blaming legendaries and instead focus on what you can improve yourself.

[burek]

29 god damned pages in and you're still not getting it are you? BiS legendaries are nice to have but it does NOT magically make you 15 % stronger when it comes to dps. Stop being bad and blaming legendaries and instead focus on what you can improve yourself.

yeah i wish i could magically 'improve' myself to cast 30% more free chaos bolts, or to do 30% more dmg when i summon that doomguard, but thats just not possible sorry

'nice to have'.... comedy

[Deleted]

yeah i wish i could magically 'improve' myself to cast 30% more free chaos bolts, or to do 30% more dmg when i summon that doomguard, but thats just not possible sorry

'nice to have'.... comedy

Still not going to magically make you #1 on dps, it's only going to SLIGHTLY up your damage. And 9/10 people playing this game is making mistakes when playing their class, so assuming that you're magically doing everything 100% perfect is just laughable, and legendaries isn't going to mend that problem for you

[Deleted]

29 god damned pages in and you're still not getting it are you? BiS legendaries are nice to have but it does NOT magically make you 15 % stronger when it comes to dps. Stop being bad and blaming legendaries and instead focus on what you can improve yourself.

When you have 2 and use them properly they actually do.

Destruction Bracers alone actually can give you up to 15% damage increase. Look at Helya logs. The Chaos Bolt proccs of Destro Bracers do add up to 15% extra damage and that is just 1 item.

Your attitude is toxic. You can't just improve yourself to the point to become so good as to scale out legendaries. World of Warcraft is an easy game and it isn't hard to play close to the skill cap. Well maybe you can be better than people with good legendaries if they are bad, but if people are close in skill the person with good legendaries and equal gear is going to do more damage. There is no denying it. Good players do have legendaries too you know?

Stop with all this "l2p" bullshit. As you have seen proven yesterday even good players like baconegg are wrong about math and strength of legendaries.

[Deleted]

You can't just improve yourself to the point to become so good as to scale out legendaries. World of Warcraft is an easy game and it isn't hard to play close to the skill cap.

Then tell me (and others) how I (and others) get 100ilvl percentiles from time to time with e.g. Norg&Wilfred, when the next 15 all wear Spite or Shoulders. And I'm talking about Odyn or Guarm here, not padding-fights. Dudes/dudettes like you love to talk about their performance as if you were not viable wo/ BiS legs and try to prove your arguments like this. As if a football player would magically score way more when wearing better sewed shoes.

BiS legendaries make up for subpar plays and are surely helpful to add some DPS, however they never ever make you magically rank 20 percentiles higher (which is roughly 15% DPS from 70-90 percentile) - 95% of your performance still comes from your playing.

And if you don't believe me, let's gather 10 warlocks with different legendaries and let's raid. I'm looking forward to seeing some with Spite and whatnot performing lower than others with Seph, Norg or other utilities.

Spoiler: "Ohhh, RNG!"

[Volitar]

I don't think the sky is falling, Destro will still do okay DPS but it just feels like absolute shit. So many baseline things removed or made into talents. Burning embers turned into soulshards. hueuheuheuhRNGhueuhe mastery.

[Deleted]

Then tell me (and others) how I get 100ilvl percentiles from time to time with Norg&Wilfred, when the next 15 all wear Spite or Shoulders. And I'm talking about Odyn or Guarm here, not padding-fights. Dudes/dudettes like you love to talk about their performance as if you were not viable wo/ BiS legs and try to prove your arguments like this. As if a football player would magically score way more when wearing better sewed shoes.

BiS legendaries make up for subpar plays and are surely helpful to add some DPS, however they never ever make you magically rank 20 percentiles higher - 95% of your ranking still comes from your playing.

You cannot look at single logs. There is too much variance. You have to look at a bigger sample size. Look at Mythic Guarm. The top 30 Destruction Warlocks all have either Feretory or Sindorei Spite. Not a single one of them lacks both. The first Destro warlocks who has neither does have 20% less dps than the first 3 warlocks who have either one or both.

Of course sometimes people are getting good results without legendaries. There is a lot of RNG and other factors in this game.
One example would be how my guild first killed Elerenthe. The feather guys didn't know they could kill the spiders. So we tanked all the spiders at the boss and the Demon Hunter in our raid did like 500K dps or something because he could AoE them. That was a freaking lot with ilvl 850 or something.

Don't forget mastery RNG (yes sometimes there are kills where you are in extreme luck and mastery does favor you heavily in a single fight. Most of the time it does even out, but on some short fights you actually do have a lot of luck and your chaos bolts average 700K instead of 600K which amounts to a lot).


Oh and by the way. ilvl percentage is different from actually percentile of your class. Top 5 warlocks on Odyn all do have either Feretory or Sindorei.

I have done great rankings without those 2 legendaries too, but there is no denying it how much they actually improve your dps.

[Deleted]

I have done great rankings without those 2 legendaries too, but there is no denying it how much they actually improve your dps.

We're not saying that its not a dps boost, its just not as big of a boost as some people here make it out to be. It's nowhere near the magical 15 and above percentage if you have the BiS.

[evertonbelmontt]

In 7.1.5 that might not be the case, but right now if you have the non dps legs and you're up against another warlock who has Sindorei and any other dps leg (doesn't even need to be bis), you can't win ANY boss in m+.

That 25 sec window with 30% burst will sky rocket. There's a vid of Pyro explaining that while he and another destro warlock is doing Mythic Odyn, and he states exactly this: in the course of a raid fight, the dps may even out a bit but the dmg done will always be lower and you can't catch up.

[Deleted]

We're not saying that its not a dps boost, its just not as big of a boost as some people here make it out to be. It's nowhere near the magical 15 and above percentage if you have the BiS.

Well that depends. On "perfect" fights the Destro bracers do actually give 15% damage increase.
More than 15% is unrealistic yes.

Having 2 BiS, in case of Destro Feretory and Sindorei as far as single target goes, can give you up to 15% increase on fights that last roughly 3 minute 30 seconds or fights that do last roughly 1 minute +-~.

Sure the people who got Feretory don't want other people to think that it is an amazing item, because our defensive mechanism tries to present us in the best light and protect others from feeling envy, by the way I have Feretory too and I really notice the extra soul shard generation. It definitively increased my dps great on single target situations where I found myself spamming Incinerate prior to Feretory.

Compared to other classes BiS legendaries Feretory might be somewhat on the weeker side, and that is why I am pretty upset with the nerf, but it is still a great legendary. Sindorei on the other hand is simply overpowered. For M+ sindorei, especially on tyr, makes you an actual good damage dealer on boss fights.

Bad legendaries are the RoF ring and even Odr is pretty bad. They definitively increase your dps only by 3% in case of Odr and the RoF ring is hard to judge because on 99% of raid fights it is useless.

- - - Updated - - -

In 7.1.5 that might not be the case, but right now if you have the non dps legs and you're up against another warlock who has Sindorei and any other dps leg (doesn't even need to be bis), you can't win ANY boss in m+.

That 25 sec window with 30% burst will sky rocket. There's a vid of Pyro explaining that while he and another destro warlock is doing Mythic Odyn, and he states exactly this: in the course of a raid fight, the dps may even out a bit but the dmg done will always be lower and you can't catch up.

Yes very true.

With 7.1.5 it will be less than 15%, but right now I think 12-15% damage increase is what the dream BiS combination actually gives you.

It is funny that Bacon completely ignored my post

[Baconeggcheese]

29 god damned pages in and you're still not getting it are you? BiS legendaries are nice to have but it does NOT magically make you 15 % stronger when it comes to dps. Stop being bad and blaming legendaries and instead focus on what you can improve yourself.

Eeh depends on the berry. For locks I know magistrike is just ridiculously powerful to the point where its pushing 12-15% of your dmg in cleave situations. But I suppose that last part is what justifies it being so strong, but its still not exactly fair to people who don't have them. It's not a small difference there like it is with the belt that everyone is so much more obsessed with for reasons I can't figure out. Tbh not sure what the aff helms numbers end up being before these nerfs, but I know its supposed to be a fairly significant increase.

Burek's a silly goose completely misrepresenting what people are saying, but people do have every right to complain about this system.

[Deleted]

Then tell me (and others) how I (and others) get 100ilvl percentiles from time to time with e.g. Norg&Wilfred, when the next 15 all wear Spite or Shoulders. And I'm talking about Odyn or Guarm here, not padding-fights. Dudes/dudettes like you love to talk about their performance as if you were not viable wo/ BiS legs and try to prove your arguments like this. As if a football player would magically score way more when wearing better sewed shoes.

BiS legendaries make up for subpar plays and are surely helpful to add some DPS, however they never ever make you magically rank 20 percentiles higher (which is roughly 15% DPS from 70-90 percentile) - 95% of your performance still comes from your playing.

And if you don't believe me, let's gather 10 warlocks with different legendaries and let's raid. I'm looking forward to seeing some with Spite and whatnot performing lower than others with Seph, Norg or other utilities.

Spoiler: "Ohhh, RNG!"

So you dont think you would do more dmg with bis legendaries? Ok thanks.

[Lucrece]

Eeh depends on the berry. For locks I know magistrike is just ridiculously powerful to the point where its pushing 12-15% of your dmg in cleave situations. But I suppose that last part is what justifies it being so strong, but its still not exactly fair to people who don't have them. It's not a small difference there like it is with the belt that everyone is so much more obsessed with for reasons I can't figure out. Tbh not sure what the aff helms numbers end up being before these nerfs, but I know its supposed to be a fairly significant increase.

Burek's a silly goose completely misrepresenting what people are saying, but people do have every right to complain about this system.

Hell, magistrike needs to be that strong because it's an all or nothing legendary. It doesn't do anything on a single target, so it can't possibly have the same benefit as feretory or another legendary which is applicable in all situations.

Otherwise we end up like demonhunters who have the ring as the only remotely good legendary while the rest are niche garbage that might as well just be stat sticks.

[sd2400533]

7.1.5 Destro is pretty much dead in the water, I have been playing it in the ptr for a while, its damage dose not even come close to Affliction in all situation, yes even cleave. Destro suffers the issues like it always have in Legion, TOO MUCH FUCKING RNG, when i see 2 300k CB back to back or 10 secs without any soul shards, I just want to cry and reroll.

Dont think sky is falling? LOL. Time to adapt or die Warlocks, like those people who chose Affliction at the beginning and forced to play Destro, now its the time for Destro to re-spec......sad isn't it?

[Jondar]

this is wrong, for example the fire bracers is a 15ish% boost to their ST dps and is actually the sole reason a fire mage would do top tier dmg on ST atm, on a fight like guarm you'd do like 60-70k less dps, dunno about you but i think thats hell of a lot and the fire bracers arent even the best ones, saying that "All DPS legendaries are not so far off from one another to the point where they are the reason someone does well" certainly isnt true. with that said tho, i do believe what you said is true for locks, their legendaries are relatively lackluster compared to legendaries like the fire bracers.

the context of that post was to be about warlock legendaries.