Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[primalmatter]

Keeeeeeeek. Not once have I ever felt the need to grind augment runes or even gold.

If you do your WQs, mission board, the occasional dungeon/M+, and raid, you should have all the gold/resources you'll need, on top of tons of Bloods of Sargeras to get pretty much any mat you need (yes, even herbs for your flasks).

Augment Runes are hardly worth mentioning since they're not required by any means, unless you're in the race for world first (on the first tier) and your guild is massively undergeared and pushing Mythic raids. That's the only time they should feel "mandatory".


Source: Been playing WoW for 12 years and I've been everywhere from supreme casual to hardcore mythic raider to everything else in between.

Is a brutal expac for catching up mind you. Its been two weeks and even though my ilv is 874 im no were near being ready for mythic with how awful the ap research system is for catching up.

This expansion require far more time investment to play at the higher end then ever before.

[Deleted]

Can't really tell you a number but there are a few teams (most of them stream on Twitch if you want to ask them questions) like Method, Splyce, Luminosity, etc. But I don't really think most of them earn their living by just playing the game - unless you actuallly win BlizzCons or have a big name and a stream going for you.

Right, so there's actually no pros?

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Is a brutal expac for catching up mind you. Its been two weeks and even though my ilv is 874 im no were near being ready for mythic with how awful the ap research system is for catching up.

This expansion require far more time investment to play at the higher end then ever before.

Indeed. This is what people wanted. The feedback during WoD was:

We wanted the vanilla-style thing where selection of class/spec mattered. Where switching your main was a huge thing that required insane amounts of grinding gear.
We wanted vanilla style talent trees, with 1-2% increases per point. We wanted a system that would require you to go out into the world to get materials for consumables and not just sit in the garrison.

Blizzard listened. We got it.
It sucks. I really hope Blizzard never listens to the players again.

[ls-]

Right, so there's actually no pros?

There are pro pvpers, but pro pve'ers don't exist, cuz there are no PvE tournaments, no competitive PvE scene supported by Blizz, only self-imposed and self-regulated WF race, and hardcore scene

[HuxNeva]

Seems like it'd fit here (and a lot of similar threads):

Great channel. gz!

[Akakishin]

There are pro pvpers, but pro pve'ers don't exist, cuz there are no PvE tournaments, no competitive PvE scene supported by Blizz, only self-imposed and self-regulated WF race, and hardcore scene

There are pve players that make their living by wow pve content on their stream, which makes them "pro pve'ers"
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I'm yet to find a game, that doesn't get repeating after 3 month of constant playing. You know why? Cuz a formula to prevent that simply doesn't exist. You need hundreds or thousands of people working simultaneously for ever with unlimited cash to deliver an infinite content that is immune to repeating cycle. It just cant be dine specially when the core game been round for so many years. So stop whining for the sake of it. If you believe when somebody says we're gonna make an alive game this time and deliver content so fast, well its your fault you don't know what's possible on this platform and what's not. You can't blame people for dreaming or trying to achiev something nobody ever done before. Just laugh at it and move on.

[ls-]

There are pve players that make their living by wow pve content on their stream, which makes them "pro pve'ers"

No, it makes them "pve players that make their living by wow pve content" They are no different from let's players, and let's players by no means are pros.

[primalmatter]

Right, so there's actually no pros?

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Indeed. This is what people wanted. The feedback during WoD was:

We wanted the vanilla-style thing where selection of class/spec mattered. Where switching your main was a huge thing that required insane amounts of grinding gear.
We wanted vanilla style talent trees, with 1-2% increases per point. We wanted a system that would require you to go out into the world to get materials for consumables and not just sit in the garrison.

Blizzard listened. We got it.
It sucks. I really hope Blizzard never listens to the players again.

None of that was like vanilla though...

I played vanilla and during the WoD content drought I played on a private server to relive it. Vanilla never had massive grinds like that outside of resist gear and that was more due to how rng it was to get good pieces...

I notice that a lot actually when people talk about vanilla in particular they tend to describe a video game that has little in common with vanilla wow.

[Slicer299]

Unless you are trying to min/max to the most hardcore extreme possible, there really is not a lot of "necessary" grinding in Legion. Due to the Emissary quests accumulating up to 3 days at a time, I find I only need to grind about every 3 days. I let them accumulate for those 3 days, then invest about an hour or two doing them all, along with some extras for Bloods if there are some available.

Doing that is enough to keep me flush with AP, I'm level 37 on my main spec and level 32 on my off spec, and it provides more than enough Bloods to fund my raid consumables for a 9 hour a week raid schedule. I end up with enough consumables that I can even sell some on the AH. I will literally go days without logging into game, I just check the mobile app a couple times a day to keep missions going. And the gold missions alone have been enough to fund several mount purchases. I'm clearing 2-6k gold per day just from missions. I don't even have to work my professions at all because of how much gold I'm making passively.

[Deleted]

I played vanilla and during the WoD content drought I played on a private server to relive it. Vanilla never had massive grinds like that outside of resist gear and that was more due to how rng it was to get good pieces...

You didn't actually play vanilla. Just a shitty version of it.
So trust me, changing mains in Vanilla wasn't anything you did lightly. Especially not if you had raid geared main. Re-rolling on a new server and getting ready for raiding on a new toon was enormous pain in the ass.

In that sense the mechanics are just as shitty as they were back then.

[Frozenbeef]

Please mention a expansion where you didn't grind?

Cataclysm, there wasn't any content to grind

[kamuimac]

Is a brutal expac for catching up mind you. Its been two weeks and even though my ilv is 874 im no were near being ready for mythic with how awful the ap research system is for catching up.

.

if only blizard was solving it in incoming patch - oh yes they are - cant you really wait those 2 weeks ?

[Akakishin]

No, it makes them "pve players that make their living by wow pve content" They are no different from let's players, and let's players by no means are pros.

I wonder if you know what pro means! Dont tell me pro = skilled, pls i still have faith in humanity...
Lol i guess?

[chronia]

None of that was like vanilla though...

I played vanilla and during the WoD content drought I played on a private server to relive it. Vanilla never had massive grinds like that outside of resist gear and that was more due to how rng it was to get good pieces...

I notice that a lot actually when people talk about vanilla in particular they tend to describe a video game that has little in common with vanilla wow.

Did you really play vanilla? While not all needed, Vanilla had some of the most massive grinds this game has ever seen. It started with leveling, not enough quests to level to 60, and the quest flow also had quite a few gaps where even leveling guides suggested "grind a level of XP on these mobs" before going to zone X, 58-60 was usually recommended to grind if you wanted to be efficient.

Wanted to craft something good? Prepare to grind, usually alot.
Wanted to raid? Prepare for 2-3 hours consumable farming before each raid.
Wanted to get into Naxx? Bring alot of gold, or prepare to grind alot
Wanted to get that nifty epic mount? Prepare to grind Tyrs hand alot, unless you got lucky with some good selling random drops.
Oh, bought the wrong color Epic mount? Though luck to you, back to Tyrs hand!
Want to get High Warlord? Just need to grind BG's till your eyes bleed, and then some more.
Want to be good friends with the Furbolgs, Grind.
Same with the Hydraxian Waterlords > Grind
Oh, you're a lock > Grind soulshards all the time otherwise you can't use half your toolkit

And these are just a few examples. I know for sure that in Vanilla i grinded the most out of every version of WoW including Legion. It didn't matter to me at the time, since i had loads of time to play being in Uni at the time and it was al new and fun to me.

[ls-]

I wonder if you know what pro means! Dont tell me pro = skilled, pls i still have faith in humanity...
Lol i guess?

Streaming a game while playing it doesn't make you a pro gamer, it makes you a streamer, you may even be considered a professional streamer/youtuber, cuz you may be getting paid for streaming and/or views, but not gaming. Good personality, composure, relevant content, etc, are way more important than gaming skills

There are pro gamers, e.g. pro WoW PvPers, pro Dota2/LoL players, etc, who never stream, cuz streaming is not a part of being a pro gamer. They are getting paid for playing the game, they compete on officially supported or hosted tournaments, they're playing the game professionally. And there are PvP streamers who are getting paid for views, they also get donations from subscribers, but it doesn't make them professional PvPers.

Unless you're recognised as a pro by a federation that hosts official tournaments, you are not a pro. What players call themselves is irrelevant.

[Elim Garak]

Did you really play vanilla? While not all needed, Vanilla had some of the most massive grinds

The key thing is "not needed"

Wanted to craft something good? Prepare to grind, usually alot.

not needed

Wanted to raid? Prepare for 2-3 hours consumable farming before each raid.

False. No grind required for raiding. At all.

Wanted to get into Naxx? Bring alot of gold, or prepare to grind alot

Guilds who were raiding Naxx provided all the hard to get stuff for their members.
It took me 5 mins to get the access to Naxx most of it was the travel time to the portal.

Wanted to get that nifty epic mount? Prepare to grind Tyrs hand alot, unless you got lucky with some good selling random drops.

Not needed. Not in a hurry.

Oh, bought the wrong color Epic mount? Though luck to you, back to Tyrs hand!

Costs of skill/mounts were reverted at some point in vanilla and mounts were cheap.
And again, it's vanity so not needed.

Want to get High Warlord? Just need to grind BG's till your eyes bleed, and then some more.

It's PvP. So kinda logical that you need to do pvp to be good at it and the best at it.
Hardly a grind. it's like saying that raiding is a grind.

Want to be good friends with the Furbolgs, Grind.

I never did that in vanila and I was fine.

Same with the Hydraxian Waterlords > Grind

No grind just do MC weekly. Like every raider did anyway for T2 pants.
Again, I wasn't exalted with them in Vanila - didn't miss out on anything

Oh, you're a lock > Grind soulshards all the time otherwise you can't use half your toolkit

That's class mechanics, duh. Kill mobs, get shards, do stuff.
What? Next thing you say is DH tanks are grinding fragments?

And these are just a few examples.

Of how vanilla didn't have any grinds you HAD to do to stay competitive in PvE?

[Nero Stormchester]

PvP is relevant as always? TOP FKING KEK

Since you're playing on EU and are definitly playing PvP after such a statement; have you witnessed the clownfiesta that was Legion Season 1?
- The amount of bugs were so disgusting
- Good luck with getting gear through only doing PvP - looting the same neck 6 times in a row because of World of RNG feels really rewarding
- Getting Challenger with 2600 rating
- Meeting the same teams again and again since so few people actually play the game is also nice
- Only 1400 people in the US were playing RBGs

PvP relevant as always? I could list at least 10 more facts why it isn't - PvP in Legion is nearly dead. And for all the Whiteknights in this thread: go reach a rating higher than 1000 or actually talk to high rated players or pros before you keep spamming LEGION IS THE BEST XPAC EVER AND HERE IS WHY!!!!! - thx.

Meh , I guess I should've phrased it better , CASUAL PvP is dope . I give 0 shits about RBGs , I've literally never played them, nor do I give a shit about 2.6 rating . Predominantly I play and gear through PvE , and when I decide to go do some BGs or play some ranked arena with guildies - it's fun . No mitherfucker is one shotting me , because he's been spamming PvP since release day and I have 0 PvP Stats(like it was in older expansions). You get in , and you have a good chance to win - if you are good enough . Right now it's actual PvP, not GearvsGear. So yeah , I'd say PvP is relevant AND fun , if you get that stick out your bottom that causes you to believe , that for some reason you believe that you deserve to be on top of the ladder

[Twdft]

False. No grind required for raiding. At all.

You must have been carried.

You could use as much different elixiers as are available and if you wanted to raid a bit more hardcore you had to farm 1 hour to raid 1 hour.

[Deleted]

"Legion ended up being a MMO"

wew lad

[Beoren]

I have to agree with OT and add some more thoughts about the problem:

First consumables grind- the amount of time you need to spend is order to be ready for raids - flasks , food and combat potions is just absurd. the mats required for each consumables is way too high. Blizzard should've keep the "cost" of consumables the way it was in WoD (for example 4xHerbA+4xHerbB for flask), without the garden/mine everything would've been fine, you wouldn't spend hours getting ready to raids and priced wouldn't be redicoulesly high.

Legendaries and AP - people spend hours and days farming MoS/ DHT and so on just for a chance to get their best legendaries, I rarly see players playing their alt, because every time you are not on your main farming Legendaries/AP or whatnot you feel behind.

RNG loot- now I am a big fan of the Mythic+ system and Its a great way to let players do something if they want to play more. But the RNG part is a bad design, when it get to a point that if you don't have trinket X from dungeon Y and its not 880 then you're screwed. they need to have a system that lower the RNG, maybe tokens? or maybe something else IDK but BiS items that have so low drop change in certain item levels just contribute to the fact that you never feel you're finished and its not fun.

I think that Blizzard needs to understand that *forcing* players to play isn't going to hold for long time, ppl are tired of the endless grind, most WoW players aren't new players - ppl with jobs, career or even kids. Blizzard need to keep players in the game by providing new and intresting content - raids , dungeons , world events (which are great in legion btw), the grind part is unnecessary.

[Elim Garak]

You must have been carried.

Right. What other explanation can there be?

You could use as much different elixiers as are available and if you wanted to raid a bit more hardcore you had to farm 1 hour to raid 1 hour.

If you wanted, sure. Do I need to remind you of the topic here?