[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Deleted]

If cast RJW during FoF of course it will interrupt the FoF channel. If you cast RJW before FoF they will both deal full damage

What was being asked was if SCK followed by RJW clipped, in the same way that SCK followed by FoF does, because SCK is kind of channelled and kind of not. It's odd.

[Juliansfist]

Oh well the answer is still yes - interrupting the SCK channel will clip it. So you would RJW before SCK or FoF as RJW is not a channel.

[Vishiz]

Does the NH cooldown reduction on SEF Trinket work on Serenity?


I think it's less boring than Xuen by a mile lol, and that change would just make the talent frustrating as hell to anyone that's not 95th+

Hit combo doesn't add anything to the spec the way it is now, you're basically required to play that way because of mastery and what will be our 4 pc bonus anyway. another button to push would technically add more depth to the spec. all you're getting with hit combo is a large penalty if you forget what ability you used last. And little to no feeling of gratification if you do it right because its hard to screw up. At least with Xuen it'll be HUGE on demand damage which wins out in a lot more fights then people seem to remember. With the addition of that its going to be hard for any class to have higher on demand burst than us, throw the leggo belt in there and you're the most dangerous burst class there is.

[Deleted]

Oh well the answer is still yes - interrupting the SCK channel will clip it. So you would RJW before SCK or FoF as RJW is not a channel.

Cool, thanks. As I've not used RJW for ages, wasn't sure if it was channelled or a buff. Kind of annoying for AoE, though I guess you just use one RJW for tagging and then TPs between SCKs after that.

[danieltang34]

Hit combo doesn't add anything to the spec the way it is now, you're basically required to play that way because of mastery and what will be our 4 pc bonus anyway. another button to push would technically add more depth to the spec. all you're getting with hit combo is a large penalty if you forget what ability you used last. And little to no feeling of gratification if you do it right because its hard to screw up. At least with Xuen it'll be HUGE on demand damage which wins out in a lot more fights then people seem to remember. With the addition of that its going to be hard for any class to have higher on demand burst than us, throw the leggo belt in there and you're the most dangerous burst class there is.

Yup hit combo doesn't really change how we play, it only affects our openers and down time phrases (and really it's just slipping in a CJL most of the time)
As they're dumbing down serenity, I feel like we need more stuffs to differentiate good and average players

[Lucrece]

Hit combo doesn't add anything to the spec the way it is now, you're basically required to play that way because of mastery and what will be our 4 pc bonus anyway. another button to push would technically add more depth to the spec. all you're getting with hit combo is a large penalty if you forget what ability you used last. And little to no feeling of gratification if you do it right because its hard to screw up. At least with Xuen it'll be HUGE on demand damage which wins out in a lot more fights then people seem to remember. With the addition of that its going to be hard for any class to have higher on demand burst than us, throw the leggo belt in there and you're the most dangerous burst class there is.

Arcane mage burst is out of this world.

As they're dumbing down serenity, I feel like we need more stuffs to differentiate good and average players

That's virtually the opposite of what designers want for this xpac. There's little reason to create gaps in performance other than to make some insecure people feel better about themselves.

[Deleted]

Yup hit combo doesn't really change how we play, it only affects our openers and down time phrases (and really it's just slipping in a CJL most of the time)
As they're dumbing down serenity, I feel like we need more stuffs to differentiate and good and average players

No we don't, I don't think you have a good grasp of the current WoW World when you say that.

WW Monk is not an "easy" dps spec to perform in the top 95% percentile anyway. Overall Monk has far more spell abilities that other classes. Compare WW Monk to Frost DK, Unholy DK, Assasination, Outlaw, Sub, Priest.. I have all these on 880+ and with the exception of Shadow Priest, WW Monk certainly is not simpler to play than any of the other specs and has more keybinds that are required than all of those, by far.

There are plenty of things to differentite good monks from bad monks without hit combo. Cooldown management, keeping hit combo alive through a myth+, stun timings, use of paralyze etc.

Plus as long as hit combo is a thing, messing that up even once is a considerable dmg loss, something that most other classes dont have. For example on a Frost DK it is not so bad when you press Frost Strike instead of Obliterate once.

[danieltang34]

No we don't, I don't think you have a good grasp of the current WoW World when you say that.

WW Monk is not an "easy" dps spec to perform in the top 95% percentile anyway. Overall Monk has far more spell abilities that other classes. Compare WW Monk to Frost DK, Unholy DK, Assasination, Outlaw, Sub, Priest.. I have all these on 880+ and with the exception of Shadow Priest, WW Monk certainly is not simpler to play than any of the other specs and has more keybinds that are required than all of those, by far.

There are plenty of things to differentite good monks from bad monks without hit combo. Cooldown management, keeping hit combo alive through a myth+, stun timings, use of paralyze etc.

Plus as long as hit combo is a thing, messing that up even once is a considerable dmg loss, something that most other classes dont have. For example on a Frost DK it is not so bad when you press Frost Strike instead of Obliterate once.

Achieving 95 percentile has nothing to do with class difficulty, instead you should look at dps diffrrences between percentiles

[Deleted]

Achieving 95 percentile has nothing to do with class difficulty, instead you should look at dps diffrrences between percentiles

lol!

you are completely wrong, just read your own sentence and try to make sense of it.

[Deleted]

Recently done my first HC raid, was happy cuz hit 90% (one boss only) according to ILvl % (DPS performance comparsion by item lvl) from wowlogs. But ppl above are using the percentilie, is that more accurate performance tool, and if yes, why am 76 there, maybe it includes dodge-ing mechanics?

[Gorsameth]

Recently done my first HC raid, was happy cuz hit 90% (one boss only) according to ILvl % (DPS performance comparsion by item lvl) from wowlogs. But ppl above are using the percentilie, is that more accurate performance tool, and if yes, why am 76 there, maybe it includes dodge-ing mechanics?

perf % is compared to all log of your spec. Ilvl % is out of all the logs of your spec within the ilvl range.

At lower gear levels your perf % will be lower because you simply cannot compete with the top logs even if you play perfect. Your stats are to low to reach the dps required. Ilvl % gives a more fair comparison there.

[Deleted]

Yes yes, am aware of perf % and Ilvl %, but what does Percentile means. Just want to know what is more accurate, Ilvl % or ''Median Percentile'' about a single boss When ppl say they are like 99 perc, that mean they hit 99% Ilvl % or 99 Percentile?

[Gorsameth]

Yes yes, am aware of perf % and Ilvl %, but what does Percentile means. Just want to know what is more accurate, Ilvl % or ''Median Percentile'' about a single boss When ppl say they are like 99 perc, that mean they hit 99% Ilvl % or 99 Percentile?

Depends on the person I guess but I would suspect most are ilvl.

[tru]

No we don't, I don't think you have a good grasp of the current WoW World when you say that.

WW Monk is not an "easy" dps spec to perform in the top 95% percentile anyway. Overall Monk has far more spell abilities that other classes. Compare WW Monk to Frost DK, Unholy DK, Assasination, Outlaw, Sub, Priest.. I have all these on 880+ and with the exception of Shadow Priest, WW Monk certainly is not simpler to play than any of the other specs and has more keybinds that are required than all of those, by far.

Then you simply don't know how to monk... The simple fact we have down time and we have one of the lowest APM melee dps specs....
Once you get it through your head how mastery and hit combo works its a very mind numbingly easy spec. Its known that monks underperform ST but there isnt a single fight in our raid group where im not #1. So is that me being decent or the rest being bad?

Just cause we have more "spell abilities" as you say doesnt mean they are useful. Maybe there is that one fight that comes along in a coons age that lets us use that one spell in the dark corners of our spell book doesnt mean is sees its usefulnes something the community agrees upon or its needed for X strategy.

I started the end of vanilla as a lock. Not knowing a thing about the game and ended up raiding as a one button wonder for a couple years. There hasnt been much that I havent mained and raided with...WW is an easy spec. one of the mantras of frost dks a few years back were easy to play hard to master well that doesnt even apply here. They stripped enough from WoD its simple enough albiet not on BM level. But there again every human is different and it may truly be hard for you.
But yea your post kinda irked me

Anyway I enjoy the spec good enough but I hope players can make them see that this xpac what they have done to class design is not ok. And it borderline pisses me off to see things pulled from what use to be an everyday spec base toolkit to be made a pvp talent... Hey BrM want guard back? go pvp. MW want the old SooM back ? Go pvp. and its like that with plenty other classes that ive seen.

Didnt they say a while back that they were doing away with weapon damage mostly and use AP scaling or something? I just wonder how it would be if everything stayed the same but our auto atks made up say nearly as much as a fury wars contributes to their damage for ST? Yea its the lamest and most boring change ever but if it was brought up decently could that fix ST issues? fantasy stuff aside ( ya know being martial artists who punch with wet noodles instead of rock fists) if AP contributed more (or weapon damage for that matter) to white atks could that be a fix?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%B9nk/simple nothing special

[Deleted]

Then you simply don't know how to monk... The simple fact we have down time and we have one of the lowest APM melee dps specs....

Its known that monks underperform ST but there isnt a single fight in our raid group where im not #1. So is that me being decent or the rest being bad?

...

But there again every human is different and it may truly be hard for you.
But yea your post kinda irked me

Yeah man mr 870 monk playing without Serenity, please enlighten me.

APM has nothing to do with difficulty besides that in simulation craft WW Monk shows right in the middle with 45 Actions per minute. Lowest is Assassination Rogue with 32 and highest arms Warrior with 67. Feral and Survival also have less Actions, Frost DK the same amount. Enhancer has 4 more.

And still APM means nothing in terms of difficulty. It also does not show things like target switching or the additional stuff you do on movement fights. Setting up Transcendence etc, target switching to stack up SCK, lining up cooldowns for Serenity, managing CHI..

Monk Single Target is not bad before it getting outscaled, you have no gear and I am assuming "your raid" is no better since you only have 2 Xavius HC kills.

Come back to me when you have world top 5 kill in your resume.

[Swankyy]

Then you simply don't know how to monk... The simple fact we have down time and we have one of the lowest APM melee dps specs....
Once you get it through your head how mastery and hit combo works its a very mind numbingly easy spec. Its known that monks underperform ST but there isnt a single fight in our raid group where im not #1. So is that me being decent or the rest being bad?
l

So, I looked at your logs. It just looks like the rest of your raid is bad, making you look better than you actually are. Please, don't gloat if you don't actually know what you're talking about. You yourself are not even actually doing that well.

[Deleted]

Also optimal APM per minute is 45 according to simcraft and you have to consider that per minute we are using about 3x Fists of Fury or more with Serenity which is a 4 sec channel. So you can easily take off 12 seconds of downtime off of the 1 minute since they are blocked by fists of fury which results in 45 actions per minute but effectively is 45 actions per 48 seconds. WW Monk does not have much downtime.

Maybe I am wrong here and simcraft counts actions per minutes differently and counts FoF as more than 1 Action but I doubt it.

[Juliansfist]

WW used to have deep game play but all that depth was removed come Legion.

In MoP WW depth came from TEB and fast game play where you consistently needed to think 3 to 5 abilities ahead of time.
In WoD WW depth again came from TEB and CX made up for the reduced pace (however whilst the roll-jab pvp set bonus was valid WW had the MoP pace and I think was the pinnacle of the spec). You still needed to think 3 to 5 abilities ahead of time but you had more time to do so.
In Legion WW depth centres around having enough chi for FoF, RSK and SotW when they come off CD. Very little forward planning required and the pace was reduced even further. I would argue that arms warrior has greater depth than WW currently.

Honestly hit combo has been the worst thing for WW. Keeping CX (pref as baseline) and the 5.2 mastery with some adjustments (such as TEB regen to 5 stacks when below 5 to address opening burst problems) would have resulted in a much more fun WW and would have reduced our annoying dependence on FoF to be our everything.

Mastery and haste would have interacted and you could even throw in half of our crit percentage to proc additional brews. Well I would have liked TEB to have been renamed/visualised such that we had some white tiger lightning aura around us and lash out when we attack.

[Deleted]

What's fun about TEB? Just another DPS cooldown. At least hit combo is interesting to maintain

[Razios]

What's fun about TEB? Just another DPS cooldown. At least hit combo is interesting to maintain

Is it?;p
Its only anoying if you have to atc boss in front. In other cases it is second mastery ;p