Should Blizzard consult the WoW community sooner?

[Dug]

You seem very cynical. We should be able to trust the playerbase at large to make the best decisions to maximize revenue shouldn't we?

Again, when you have overwhelming consensus then you'd have a point.

[Deficineiron]

Fuck no.

You end up with gear being mailed to you and lfr if you do.

well you get 1 difficulty like that at about a tenth of lfr difficulty now, some middle difficulties, , and the top difficulty difficulty a painful progression system with no shortcuts or skipping. you also get all the gear in the gamestore.

[FelPlague]

They did that with WoD, look how that mentality turned out.

people wanted player housing-got it
players wanted to be a commander, a army leader-got it
players wanted faster content- they got it.... then after the fast content they got nothing... for a long long time
players wanted more reps- they got it
players wanted more gear- they got it

wod was a expansion that tried to cater to everyone... thats the issue...

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well you get 1 difficulty like that at about a tenth of lfr difficulty now, some middle difficulties, , and the top difficulty difficulty a painful progression system with no shortcuts or skipping. you also get all the gear in the gamestore.

thats what you say
but dont you dare for a single fucking moment try to talk for the whole community and what they want...

[Phlyn]

thats what you say
but dont you dare for a single fucking moment try to talk for the whole community and what they want...

chill out man.

[Kazuchika]

They could just do in-game surveys and solve this non-concern of yours.

Yeah so they could get even more feedback they just ignore.

[Haloswin]

No, it wasn't.

Community wanted player housing. They got shit on a stick with no customisation but with tons of freeware stuff and facebook gaming instead.
Community wanted less dailies. They got shit on a stick and absolutely no dailies at all.
Community wanted flying. They got shit on a stick and were forced to nofly for 2/3 of of expansion.
Community wanted the game to be less single player rpg and more mmorpg. They got shit on a stick and were forced to play a "commander".
etc, etc.
The list can be a mile long, because WoD is anything but what community wanted. WoD is what developers wanted, though.

This post is a perfect example of how the community thinks their opinions are shared by the rest of the community..

I've played since forever, I didn't start raiding til BC but I killed off every boss on Sunwell while it was relevant. I never wanted player housing, much less having to invest the time to customize it.. In a game supposedly about battling enemies player houses came off like stopping in the middle of it to buy some "cute shoes" So no.

As someone who grew up, grew old and who's responsibilities grew I hated dailies.. Still hate dailies and yet I have ZERO problems with how WQ work because they allow me to pick and choose the ones I want to do and they aren't the same thing every day even if they do tend to repeat. But as far as WANTING dailies -- NO.

Flying... Meh... I liked it when we got it back, it made things faster but really, I didn't find myself missing it which to be honest -- shocked me. So in my case it wasn't about wanting or not wanting flying, I was indifferent and I enjoyed the mini-games in Nagrand with the gliders until I ran out of those.. Had flying been around at hello i'd have been bored sooner. Not a flying issue, a content one.

LOL.. You wan them to focus on making a MMO not an RPG.. Please tell me how player housing impacts others players in this glorious MMO? You Sir are an example of how complicated the community's wishes can be. "I want it to be about the whole but please please please give me this little bit of the game to be just for me -- and let me make it even more about me with customization". Meanwhile you have others that see player housing as trivial and a waste of development time.

You say you could make a list that's mile long, I have a sneaking suspicion that the community you are attempting to speak for would similarly find exception or disagree with everything you'd put on the list. It's not even a case about you or anyone else being right or wrong ... it's just the reality that the wow community is extremely varied...

The less people believe the noise in forums is the consensus, the better off the community as a whole will be.

[Deficineiron]

people wanted player housing-got it
players wanted to be a commander, a army leader-got it
players wanted faster content- they got it.... then after the fast content they got nothing... for a long long time
players wanted more reps- they got it
players wanted more gear- they got it

wod was a expansion that tried to cater to everyone... thats the issue...

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thats what you say
but dont you dare for a single fucking moment try to talk for the whole community and what they want...

don't worry, egali-wow will be for you too

I am going to model it on Wyst Alastor 1716, which I think got the balance right of egalitarianism.

[Shampro]

Last time the community had any say in the whole echochamber we got Warlords of Draenor. Where they completely eliminated any trace of a quest for reputation.

So to awnser you question: How about no? Game development isn't a democracy.

[FelPlague]

chill out man.

its just the worse thing ever when people try to pull off "i speak for the community, what i say is what people want" and im sick of people doing it, you see atleast 10 threads a day about "ok blizz this is what the community wants (as said by me) fix it"

[Deficineiron]

Last time the community had any say in the whole echochamber we got Warlords of Draenor. Where they completely eliminated any trace of a quest for reputation.

So to awnser you question: How about no? Game development isn't a democracy.

I think it should go even further than just design democracy - let the players vote on class managers, dev team heads, etc. what could go wrong???

also, major game story-line threads should be voted on. Kind of like the 'death in teh family' batman comic approach in the late 80s - let the players decide if xxx dies or who wins fight between a and b, etc.

[Deleted]

No, They should say
"this is it, this is OUR vision, This is OUR game, Dont like it, FECK OFF"

+1

/10char

[Arctae]

Should Blizzard consult the WoW community sooner?

Take a look a your sig and you have your answer... No, Blizzard should not consult the community because the community is too large and has too many varied interests. Not everyone will be happy with every decision, but that doesn't mean they are bad decisions.

[Deficineiron]

No, They should say
"this is it, this is OUR vision, This is OUR game, Dont like it, FECK OFF"

pardo sort-of said this a long, long time ago. I think it has been pretty well established that that was the old blizzard and they have better ways and notions of design now. also giving random masses of people power to design the game with no accountability mechanisms seems like a no-brainer winning setup (at least for the class-action securities lawyers). Forum sages have already proven that kotick has zero control over blizzard so he couldn't stop them from doing this.

[Haloswin]

Nope, man. Blizzard can stop calling things with wrong names. Would you feel a lot of enjoyment if you were promised a car and instead you were given a cardboard box, with "CAR" written on its sides, and developers would sing their PR lies everywhere that this box is their artistic vision of a car, that's how they always thought a car should look like and how actual car would never work in their game? Well, I won't. If Blizzard called their garrison what it actually is - a player base, which functions similarly to how player bases of Warcraft RTS series did - the outcry would be way smaller. Lying about game features isn't a very good marketing move in a long term, you know. Ask No Man's Sky developers, they learned it the hard way

Yes.. because if they called it a player base the criticism wouldnt be.. "OMG we wanted player housing and instead we get this base -- STUPID BLIZZ NEVER LISTENS"

Prior to WOD, I logged out in the bank or next to a mailbox, or somewhere close to whatever I'd be doing next... Same as I had for every XP since BC. During WOD everything went through the garrison and so that's where I logged out. Not once did I think, man, I really like how this place looks, the purple in our my guild colors really brings out the color in the Shadowmoon Valley sky, I sure am glad I was able to change the coloring in here.. Not once.

FF to Legion. I log out in my class hall. Not because I like the looks of the place or because it feels like home, but rather because it puts me closer to what Ill be doing next.

So again. I respect that some want player housing-- hopefully they get it. But I'm part of the community that has never spent a single second of their time in WOW pining for their own room to log out in. But if WOD is any indication, if dedicating time to player housing customization means less content. Hard pass.

[Deficineiron]

Yes.. because if they called it a player base the criticism wouldnt be.. "OMG we wanted player housing and instead we get this base -- STUPID BLIZZ NEVER LISTENS"

Prior to WOD, I logged out in the bank or next to a mailbox, or somewhere close to whatever I'd be doing next... Same as I had for every XP since BC. During WOD everything went through the garrison and so that's where I logged out. Not once did I think, man, I really like how this place looks, the purple in our my guild colors really brings out the color in the Shadowmoon Valley sky, I sure am glad I was able to change the coloring in here.. Not once.

FF to Legion. I log out in my class hall. Not because I like the looks of the place or because it feels like home, but rather because it puts me closer to what Ill be doing next.

So again. I respect that some want player housing-- hopefully they get it. But I'm part of the community that has never spent a single second of their time in WOW pining for their own room to log out in. But if WOD is any indication, if dedicating time to player housing customization means less content. Hard pass.

If you are referred to the alleged lower number of major patches and new raid content, and the alleged ray d tear tombstone in garrisons, it has been completely proven that there was more raid content (easy to prove, just multiply diffuclty settings x bosses) than ever and the (alleged, not proven to be a ) tombstone was an alleged actual person.

[My personal theory is the raydtear tombstone snuck past the gatekeepers internally.]

[Haloswin]

All I can say is,If the players would have been deciding stuff we all wouldn't be in this huge mess that is legendarys
It's sad so see what could have been a top expansion fail on the basics

I'm sure there are some people who have been incredibly unlucky and it has to suck for them.. I was one of the last people in my guild to get one.. I've been lucky with my last two, not BIS but, helpful at least. In the months that have passed I've caught up and passed some of the people who were incredibly lucky. It's a flawed system but over time I do believe it will even out. That won't change how it impacted the people in the race for world first but outside of them and to a lesser degree guilds vying for server firsts it does seem like some of the anger is a bit overblown, it does seem like somewhat of a temporary problem.

Legendaries have always been a bit of PITA. First you had only select classes getting them, and I'm certain in some guilds there was drama over who among those able to equip them would get it first, second.. etc etc... I do hope Blizz finds a more elegant solution to the legendary situation... The idea of making them solely utility may solve the balance issue but, IMO really takes away from the appeal of getting a super powerful item.

Maybe a system where everyone can work towards one super powerful item while still having a chance at utility legendaries... Hopefully they find some happy medium.

[Fandrarick]

I don't know about consulting the community, but at least giving some feedback or reaching out to it with some message in a more effective matter

[Deleted]

Community feedback is not really representive... because if someone is dissatisfied with something (for instance class gameplay) that person is more likely to post it on feedback threads than people who enjoy the things as they are... there barely is positive feedback, not because people don't enjoy the game, but rather because there is no reason to post "Hey everythings fine with gameplay, some people do that, but there the absolute minority... the best example are daily quests of MOP, a lot of shitstorm came from people who didn't like daily quests, when in WOD the daily quests got mostly removed, the people who like daily quests posted and there was a demand for daily quests (or something similair).

But however if there is constructive feedback on a topic and it sounds reasonable to the devs, it should be included in development.

[Deficineiron]

Community feedback is not really representive... because if someone is dissatisfied with something (for instance class gameplay) that person is more likely to post it on feedback threads than people who enjoy the things as they are... there barely is positive feedback, not because people don't enjoy the game, but rather because there is no reason to post "Hey everythings fine with gameplay, some people do that, but there the absolute minority... the best example are daily quests of MOP, a lot of shitstorm came from people who didn't like daily quests, when in WOD the daily quests got mostly removed, the people who like daily quests posted and there was a demand for daily quests (or something similair).

But however if there is constructive feedback on a topic and it sounds reasonable to the devs, it should be included in development.

this offers a good path towards our plan for egalitarian feature decisions - try removing all content at different times, e.g. one month remove all dailies, another remove leveling bgs, later rated bg's, later arena, later instances (leveling), later raids, later quests, later pokemon, later gathering, etc. Tangentially, remove rewards from in=game activities as a measurement of actual enjoyment without any carrot/stick progress relationship. Given various departments a pass on participation/completion metrics while this happens.

measure relative forum/other negative and positive feedback

[Kantoro]

Blizzard doesn't do that. They know what's best and have nebulous anecdotal evidence to back it up.