I assert that individuals can make it on minimum wage.

[xero5141]

Yeah and I still think you can if you don't live in an overly expensive part of the country.

What evidence from this thread helped you to continue that thinking? If I make 8.00/hr (7.25 is the average state minimum wage) that's 1,280/month. There are NO renting opportunities below about $700 a month in my area, and I think that's probably on the cheap end considering I live in North Idaho.

So $1,280 after taxes in Idaho is about $920 a month for an individual making $.75 more an hour than minimum wage.

You think someone can live COMFORTABLY on $220 a month? What fucking world are you living in?

[Dragoncurry]

What evidence from this thread helped you to continue that thinking? If I make 8.00/hr (7.25 is the average state minimum wage) that's 1,280/month. There are NO renting opportunities below about $700 a month in my area, and I think that's probably on the cheap end considering I live in North Idaho.

So $1,280 after taxes in Idaho is about $920 a month for an individual making $.75 more an hour than minimum wage.

You think someone can live COMFORTABLY on $220 a month? What fucking world are you living in?

One where you don't stay at minimum wage forever? Hence why its called minimum wage, aka nowhere else to go but fucking up.

Why do people want to live comfortably at the lowest salaried position in society. What would do YOU live in?

[Jtbrig7390]

Yeah and I still think you can if you don't live in an overly expensive part of the country.

And you would be factually wrong but hey thanks for playing. Also I see you have changed it from "Can live on Minimum Wage to "can live on minimum wage unless X".

Unless you get some kind of Friend,Family,Government help you can not live on Minimum Wage. This is a fact not a opinion.

[PosPosPos]

One where you don't stay at minimum wage forever? Hence why its called minimum wage, aka nowhere else to go but fucking up.

Why do people want to live comfortably at the lowest salaried position in society. What would do YOU live in?

Newsflash: lots of minimum wage jobs are pivotal to the proper function of society e.g. cleaning.

Since they are important, why can't they pay a livable wage?

[Jtbrig7390]

One where you don't stay at minimum wage forever? Hence why its called minimum wage, aka nowhere else to go but fucking up.

Why do people want to live comfortably at the lowest salaried position in society. What would do YOU live in?

Not all jobs raise you above Minimum wage and not everyone can get a better job.

If everyone could do it then no one could.

[Dragoncurry]

Newsflash: lots of minimum wage jobs are pivotal to the proper function of society e.g. cleaning.

Since they are important, why can't they pay a livable wage?

Bc they are not important, nor pivotal. The access of human labor is letting companies be lazy and not invent automation for these processes.

If they truly were important, when people leave those jobs, and there is a lack of labor force, companies and governments would A) raise wage naturally or B) automate process.

- - - Updated - - -

Not all jobs raise you above Minimum wage and not everyone can get a better job.

If everyone could do it then no one could.

So you're telling me that individuals intend to plan out how many years on minimum wage? More than 2 or 3? That's a little strange don't you think?

[Tijuana]

Understood. Honestly wondering what they are expecting to happen long term. Some seem to be expecting new jobs to pop up to remove the jobs that are automated away as most of even them realize that the majority of the jobs aren't coming back. While others (Myself included) are of the mind that we are transitioning to a job where they can't expect most people to work in the future due to lack of jobs and even the new jobs they hoped to be created are also ones where it would be easier to automate than have a person do or will require far fewer workers than could ever hope to require the illusion of gainful employment.

Then the question becomes are they going to let people die, go for a universal income, or start requiring busy work for welfare as a form of income trying to force people to be busy even with jobs that it is better that they didn't do. Or something else entirely.

Hyperbole much?

Industries come and go but humans with money paying humans with free time will never go away. Why is that when one is fear mongering over robots, the idea never crosses the mind of the fear monger that we can simply tell the robots to make the food, and more of it? Why is mass starvation due to automation a likely outcome, in your mind? Do you watch a lot of TV?

[Jtbrig7390]

So you're telling me that individuals intend to plan out how many years on minimum wage? More than 2 or 3? That's a little strange don't you think?

No I am telling you that not everyone has the choice to improve there wage.

Some area's only have Minimum Wage jobs available. People can't just pick up and go somewhere better because that also costs.

Once again and ill type this in caps for you..... IF EVERYONE COULD DO IT THEN NO ONE COULD DO IT. That's not a hard concept to understand.

Better paying jobs are not infinite.

[Dragoncurry]

No I am telling you that not everyone has the choice to improve there wage.

Some area's only have Minimum Wage jobs available. People can't just pick up and go somewhere better because that also costs.

Once again and ill type this in caps for you..... IF EVERYONE COULD DO IT THEN NO ONE COULD DO IT. That's not a hard concept to understand.

Better paying jobs are not infinite.

Some areas have only minimum wage jobs available? Like where?

BTW, the reason for my question is because I don't believe you.

[PosPosPos]

Bc they are not important, nor pivotal.

Uh yes they are. If the premises in which an owner does business in is filthy, especially in the food industry, who would patronize?

The access of human labor is letting companies be lazy and not invent automation for these processes.

No, it is flexibility to handle a plethora of situations that automation does not handle well.

If they truly were important, when people leave those jobs, and there is a lack of labor force, companies and governments would A) raise wage naturally or B) automate process.

A) Not unless it's a matter of life and death
B) Which is even worse, because not everyone can hold a higher level job due to lack of demand, so you need basic income for that.

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Some areas have only minimum wage jobs available? Like where?

BTW, the reason for my question is because I don't believe you.

It's not that you don't believe us, you just don't believe in reality.

If the world worked the way you...envision it to be, everyone would be CEOs and swimming in money. Sorry to say, if everyone are CEOs, nobody are CEOs.

[Jtbrig7390]

Some areas have only minimum wage jobs available? Like where?

There is this magical site called Google try using it, I'm not pulling up a list for you.

There is also area's where $15 a hour isn't enough. Wages should be based on the cost of living of the area the job is in. If the cost of living in New York is a min of $20 a hour 20 hours a week then all jobs there should pay at lease that.

The current system is a joke and its why you got house holds with 2-3 different family's in it.

[Alydael]

Below is an infographic posted by Bernie Sanders Facebook page showing how many hours an individual must work per state to afford a 1 bedroom apartment.



Honestly I don't believe it.

I think it's very possible for an individual to live off minimum wage comfortably for an extended period of time, if need be.

Is it easy, no but possible, yes.

No real source accompanied the information which adds to it being sensationalized. Which I think is the main problem. You can't have real discussion about poverty when people can't talk about the actual facts.

The only "source is that numbers are from the 'low income housing coalition' with no research or explaination as to how they generated these numbers.

PS:. In before bootstraps

I can garuntee you that it is not possible to live on minimum wage in most states.

To be able to afford a place (whether apartment or house) the standard formula is that you must be able to pay all your bills (rent, electricity, food, etc) on two weeks pay.

Let's grant a minimum wage of 15$ (I know it is not, but for argument's sake). At 40/hrs a week that equals 600$ before taxes.

Good luck trying to pay all your bills for the month (including food and rent) with less than 1200$. Maybe if you live way out in the boonies in a run down shack.

[Deleted]

Hyperbole much?

Industries come and go but humans with money paying humans with free time will never go away. Why is that when one is fear mongering over robots, the idea never crosses the mind of the fear monger that we can simply tell the robots to make the food, and more of it? Why is mass starvation due to automation a likely outcome, in your mind? Do you watch a lot of TV?

Why pay a human when a machine can do it more cheaply and doesn't complain? So that is one more robot and one more human without an income. So what we have now is a lot of labour and no one with the money to buy anything that said labour is producing. Did it not occur to you that if we tell these robots to make more food and other products and give them to the humans who need them is ebul socialism?!
So now you get to choose, either you want to maintain our current economic system and have a generous minimum wage for it to work properly or we can go full blown socialist like you (seemingly unknowingly) suggested.

[Tijuana]

Why pay a human when a machine can do it more cheaply and doesn't complain? So that is one more robot and one more human without an income. So what we have now is a lot of labour and no one with the money to buy anything that said labour is producing. Did it not occur to you that if we tell these robots to make more food and other products and give them to the humans who need them is ebul socialism?!
So now you get to choose, either you want to maintain our current economic system and have a generous minimum wage for it to work properly or we can go full blown socialist like you (seemingly unknowingly) suggested.

That choice is not being made today, rofl. The bottom line is, regardless of your TV show fantasy, humans will never starve to death while robots run the world. The notion that C3-PO is a real thing, is just ridiculous. There will never be a time when robots can do every single job humans can do. And if that time ever comes, we will probably be pretty Socialist, yes. I mean, why have Capitalism when the robots can literally do all the work there is to do? The entire point of Capitalism is creating the cheapest and best products via competition. There would be no point to that in a world where humans need not work.

[Dragoncurry]

There is this magical site called Google try using it, I'm not pulling up a list for you.

There is also area's where $15 a hour isn't enough. Wages should be based on the cost of living of the area the job is in. If the cost of living in New York is a min of $20 a hour 20 hours a week then all jobs there should pay at lease that.

The current system is a joke and its why you got house holds with 2-3 different family's in it.

Yeah, no I'm asking you to show me an area where there are only minimum wage jobs as you suggested.

[Jtbrig7390]

Yeah, no I'm asking you to show me an area where there are only minimum wage jobs as you suggested.

And I'm tell you to use google. Hell there is many country sides where all you can get is a job at some store or gas station and it only pay's minimum wage.

You not wanting to live in reality isn't my problem. There is many places that ether hire at Minimum Wage or places like walmart that hire at around $9 a hour but only have you work 10-20 hours. Nether is livable.

That is reality.

Once again IF EVERYONE COULD GET A BETTER PAYING JOB THEN NO ONE COULD. Not sure how many times I got to tell you that for you to understand it.

[flam]

I can garuntee you that it is not possible to live on minimum wage in most states.

To be able to afford a place (whether apartment or house) the standard formula is that you must be able to pay all your bills (rent, electricity, food, etc) on two weeks pay.

Let's grant a minimum wage of 15$ (I know it is not, but for argument's sake). At 40/hrs a week that equals 600$ before taxes.

Good luck trying to pay all your bills for the month (including food and rent) with less than 1200$. Maybe if you live way out in the boonies in a run down shack.

You are missing the point; the point being is it actually possible to survive on minimum wage, not survive and have a savings too.

I think people are also missing the fact that there is a shit ton of government assistance programs out there that give you massive discounts or FREE shit for being poor. California has a program to GIVE you a FREE cellphone. Internet providers give you internet connection for dirt cheap (not blazing fast, but for $10 / month how much do you want) SNAP program (food stamps) Section 8 (government pays around 80% of your rent)

If you don't taking free hand outs...

[Jtbrig7390]

You are missing the point; the point being is it actually possible to survive on minimum wage

I think people are also missing the fact that there is a shit ton of government assistance programs out there that give you massive discounts or FREE shit for being poor.

The bolded conflicts with the bottom statement. If you can survive on minimum wage you wouldn't need Government Assistance. The fact you have to use Government Assistance proves you can't survive on minimum wage.

That is the point of a minimum wage, to be a livable wage aka NOT GETTING ASSISTANCE.....

It is you who are missing the point.

[xero5141]

One where you don't stay at minimum wage forever? Hence why its called minimum wage, aka nowhere else to go but fucking up.

Why do people want to live comfortably at the lowest salaried position in society. What would do YOU live in?

The statement in the OP was that you CAN live comfortably at minimum wage, not only that, but the quote that I replied to also stated the same. If you can't separate surviving from living comfortably, and understand WHY we are discussing living comfortably vs. surviving then that's your issue. Please take your ignorance, and apparent inability to read elsewhere.

[Deleted]

That choice is not being made today, rofl. The bottom line is, regardless of your TV show fantasy, humans will never starve to death while robots run the world. The notion that C3-PO is a real thing, is just ridiculous. There will never be a time when robots can do every single job humans can do. And if that time ever comes, we will probably be pretty Socialist, yes. I mean, why have Capitalism when the robots can literally do all the work there is to do? The entire point of Capitalism is creating the cheapest and best products via competition. There would be no point to that in a world where humans need not work.

No, c3-po isn't a reality yet, but if you think that we need anything like it to automate most human jobs you are sorely mistaken. You do not need a c3-po to drive a car, make a burger or clean most shit up. Most jobs that humans do right now can be automated to a great degree, yes there are exceptions, but, most things can be automated.
Although we are nowhere near the AI that c3-po has, that doesn't mean that we can not build robots that can preform random things that humans do now once they are showed what to do. Up until recently we simply did not have computing power strong and small enough to make robotic automatons, but this is changing rapidly.
We already are in transition to a world where people need not work, just look at the self driving cars. How long will it take before self driving cars are a thing? Do you think that truck drivers will still be a thing when even UBER is looking into self driving cabs at this very moment? Most people working in logistics will be not needed in 10 to 15 years.
Of course there is a transition phase, and we are right at the beginning of it. This transition will be in the form of a minimal basic income, and when there is a larger amount of people without work this basic income will go up.