Truth about Garrosh?

[DesMephisto]

Garrosh didn't fit the heavy handed ass kissing bullshit wrathion arc narrative of holding hands with pathetic alliance scum. Of course they had to turn him into Hitler. Garrosh did nothing wrong!

[Zulkhan]

So we have Eltrigg, Baine and Voljin against the attack out of moral reasons

Nope. Again, the only Horde member who remotely came close to deem the attack "wrong" was Baine. And even he made it more personal about Jaina as a person (because he held a debt to her, obviously) than anything about lack of military legitimacy to storm the place. Eitrigg literally didn't say shit about Theramore, he lamented the consequences of such a drawn out and escalated conflict on the Horde side. Likewise, Vol'jin shown no care for Theramore, his bat-riders call your character "Theramore scum" the moment you interact with them and when Garrosh kept delaying the assault Vol'jin pressed on saying his warriors gathered enough bloodlust to release on the field and there was no point in waiting (unaware of the whole mana bomb plan obviously) what he opposed of Garrosh's plan was the kicking of the Night Elves out of Kalimdor, which even that wasn't lamented for "moral reasons" but rather because the Alliance would have clearly hunted the Horde to death thereafter.

You can change the topic but fact is, Theramore was a worthy military target and literally no one pretended otherwise. It was either about the deal being worthy or not, especially considered Garrosh's plans that went far beyond the mere assault on Theramore.

[Verdugo]

Garrosh didn't fit the heavy handed ass kissing bullshit wrathion arc narrative of holding hands with pathetic alliance scum. Of course they had to turn him into Hitler. Garrosh did nothing wrong!

Entire Wrathion arc was him supporting Garrosh and his efforts until he turned into Hitler. Less hand holding and more stronger assimilating the weaker.

[DesMephisto]

Entire Wrathion arc was him supporting Garrosh and his efforts until he turned into Hitler. Less hand holding and more stronger assimilating the weaker.

Wrong. Garrosh wanted to annihilate the alliance. Wrathion said they had to come together to form asskissery: return of the legion

[Zulkhan]

Wrong. Garrosh wanted to annihilate the alliance. Wrathion said they had to come together to form asskissery: return of the legion

Nope, he's right. Wrathion wanted one faction to conquer the other. He supported Garrosh until he didn't turn half of the Horde against him, than he supported the Alliance hoping Varian would have conquered the Horde but he didn't. Did you play Wrathion's legendary?

[DesMephisto]

Nope, he's right. Wrathion wanted one faction to conquer the other. He supported Garrosh until he didn't turn half of the Horde against him, than he supported the Alliance hoping Varian would have conquered the Horde but he didn't. Did you play Wrathion's legendary?

No, because it was fucking removed from the game. #GG Blizzard

The gist I heard after the fact was that only a unified faction could defeat the legion.

[Zulkhan]

No, because it was fucking removed from the game. #GG Blizzard

Yeah, I never got the point of that.

The gist I heard after the fact was that only a unified faction could defeat the legion.

It was kinda that but since he sort of admired Lei Shen, one faction had to be the "Mogu" and the other the "Pandaren" of the situation, if you got what I mean.

[TickTickTick]

It's irrelevant to the topic as Garrosh was designed to be an asshole from Wrath of the Lich King. We already had a taste of his opinion and his plans from when he announced them in that quote during the tournament. We knew what would happen the moment he got the position.

Yeah.
Ulduar trailer: 'A true warchief would never partner with cowards' -implying he's never going to ally with Humans even against a big evil.
TotC raid: 'This is a glimpse of what the future brings' after Horde champions killed Alliance champions. With Thrall standing next to him.

And Thrall be like: We need a true orc of pure blood as a warchief! Garrosh it is! Ofc im the wisest being alive so Ill ignore my advisors, and completely forget the fact that the Horde is made of several races and not only orcs!

(Then at the end of MoP he makes Vol'jin the warchief. Like, who IS he to decide such things alone? Wotlk -> Cata is debatable, but MoP -> WoD? He is in a neutral faction ffs, he's not even part of the Horde yet he alone decides who's going to be the warchief now)

[Zulkhan]

Then at the end of MoP he makes Vol'jin the warchief.

Wrong. The leaders' consensus made Vol'jin the Warchief.

He is in a neutral faction ffs, he's not even part of the Horde

Nope, he was always Horde and still is. Members of factions like Earthen Ring or Cenarion Circle are neutral only when it comes to the organization's specific affairs and nothing else.

[Zandalariprelate]

I still don't get why blizzard didn't used the son of kilrogg which help us in nagrand to convert Garaad in a more safe place, damm he was a smart and somewhat pasive aggressive orc who have the balls to attack enemies but always open to the polite talk.

[TickTickTick]

Wrong. The leaders' consensus made Vol'jin the Warchief.

Last time I've watched the cinematic, Thrall didnt ask anyone, nor did anyone else said anything. There were only bows/nods cause the almighty green Jesus decided.

Nope, he was always Horde and still is. Members of factions like Earthen Ring or Cenarion Circle are neutral only when it comes to the organization's specific affairs and nothing else.

Was Tirion alliance or neutral? Malfurion? Hamuul? Khadgar?
The moment a character starts working with both factions, they become neutral.

Thrall abandoned the Horde the moment he joined the Earthen Ring and, sorry to say that, but there's no coming back. He literally has the Earthen Ring tag in SoO, he is friendly for both factions.

[Cl4nK]

he is friendly for both factions.

Malfurion, Tyrande and Vereesa are all friendly tagged in Legion. Does that make them not Alliance anymore?

[TickTickTick]

Malfurion, Tyrande and Vereesa are all friendly tagged in Legion. Does that make them not Alliance anymore?

Dont know from where did you get an idea that Malfurion was Alliance. He wasnt at practically any time since making the new Alliance. They put him near Tyrande in Darnassus, but he was friendly here and just watched you kill Tyrande.

Tyrande is suddenly friendly when she can use you to help her find her 'beloved' but I wouldnt even call it that.

Veressa is friendly where? In Suramar? Like the night elf sentinels, why does it matter? She states is clearly she was against letting the Horde into Dalaran and Khadgar is there to prevent another High Elves vs Blood Elves massacre.

[arcaneshot]

I think they ruined all these big characters during the last few years.So happy Afrasiabi is back.

He never left. He just stayed back while Metzen talked.

The difference is he can't hide behind Metzen anymore.

[Volardelis]

Garrosh was always a hot headed war mongering tool. Even back in Wrath, which can be seen in the Ulduar Trailer where he attacks Varian even though Thrall told him to stand down or when he tells Saurfang that he plans to destroying the alliance port in Borean Tundra to allow the horde to have access to the ocean. He insults Tirion and his tourament saying it wasn't 'true fighting', blaming the alliance for summoning Jaraxxus even though that gnome was not apart of the Alliance. In Cata, he ordered his air support teams to attack Alliance ships during the intro into Twilight Highlands. The thing at Stonetalon was mostly miscommunication between the writing staff.

During the pre-event to Cata, he insults Vol'jin for only 'taking a few islands' while he lead the horde to victory in Northrend.

While Blizzard may have changed Garrosh, but what was given prior to MoP helped create his character in MoP. Garrosh was always a pride loving orc after Thrall bitch slapped him around. Prior to that, Garrosh struggled with his fears, despairs and doubts. (this becomes a part of his encounter, the sha intermission realms, and even comments on it. "See the visions of fear, despair and doubt as I have!). And that is the connection in MoP, Garrosh experienced first hand fear, despair and doubt. He tried to use the divine bell to allow the horde to take control over these emotions, not to be controlled by them. And the Heart of Y'shaarj was the ultimate prize in his plan. So people saying Garroshs character in MoP is totality against his character need to read and understand the finer details and connections.

- - - Updated - - -

once again elements dont give a crap about some orc honor duel.
magic has been used in the duels before.

people need to shut the hell up with the "thrall cheated." bullcrap.

Even Garrosh cheated, he used his fists, that is a separate weapon from Gorehowl.

[Zulkhan]

Last time I've watched the cinematic, Thrall didnt ask anyone, nor did anyone else said anything. There were only bows/nods cause the almighty green Jesus decided.

Then you watched it wrong. I think anyone can notice the difference between "You must be Warchief" and "If you lead, I will follow". That "if" blatantly means that Thrall didn't decide anything and nothing was set in stone at that point. The leaders' agreement (included Thrall's) gave the title to Vol'jin.

Did you notice how Vol'jin decided alone to make Sylvanas the Warchief? That's because he was the Warchief and possessed the authority to do that. Thrall wasn't and had no authority on the matter, he simply made known his intention to follow Vol'jin if he was going to lead the Horde. The other leaders shown a similar agreement. Thrall wasn't above anyone in that instance.

The moment a character starts working with both factions, they become neutral.

Wrong. They're neutral in regards of neutral affairs. Thrall and Hamuul are still Horde, much like Malfurion is still Alliance.

Thrall abandoned the Horde the moment he joined the Earthen Ring and, sorry to say that, but there's no coming back. He literally has the Earthen Ring tag in SoO, he is friendly for both factions.

Yep, and that's why you have him around Horde outposts all the time in WoD. He was the literal Horde equivalent of Maraad on the Alliance side.

Sounds like someone plays only Alliance here.

[TickTickTick]

Then you watched it wrong. I think anyone can notice the difference between "You must be Warchief" and "If you lead, I will follow". That "if" blatantly means that Thrall didn't decide anything and nothing was set in stone at that point. The leaders' agreement (included Thrall's) gave the title to Vol'jin.

Semantics. Noone else ever suggested such idea. It was Thrall's idea and Thrall's alone. Such decisions are made at privite council meeting and not in some underground stronghold with city being in mess and the enemy standing right there.

Did you notice how Vol'jin decided alone to make Sylvanas the Warchief? That's because he was the Warchief and possessed the authority to do that. Thrall wasn't and had no authority on the matter, he simply made known his intention to follow Vol'jin if he was going to lead the Horde. The other leaders shown a similar agreement. Thrall wasn't above anyone in that instance.

The difference is that Vol'jin had a strong argument (the Loa told him to do it) while Thrall pulled his idea out of an ass. WHAT was the idea behind suggesting Vol'jin being a warchief? Night Elves helped the Horde more than Vol'jin's 'revolutionaries' lol. Seriously, I hate Thrall not because he is a Mery Sue with super powers, but because he gets away with EVERYTHING. Each dumbass idea.

Wrong. They're neutral in regards of neutral affairs. Thrall and Hamuul are still Horde, much like Malfurion is still Alliance.

Oh yeah. Ebon Blade is Horde, Argent Crusade is Alliance, Kirin Tor is Alliance.
Do you even know what's the point of neutral factions? Just being in neutral faction doesnt make them Alliance/Horde only cause they are X race.

Yep, and that's why you have him around Horde outposts all the time in WoD. He was the literal Horde equivalent of Maraad on the Alliance side.

And while Maraad was fitting here cause of Draenei, Thrall was fitting only cause the orcs (and alternate parents, lol). Frostfire and Nagrad, thats all. Oh yeah and later on your garrison, cause his favored Vol'jin was there too.

He's no Horde to me since the Cataclysm. And never will. Garrosh said it right. 'You are an orc no longer'.

Sounds like someone plays only Alliance here.

FYI I'm playing Horde since the ending of Wotlk. And even I cant stand Thrall. I actually regret Garrosh storyarc went that way, cause he indeed was what the Horde needed.

[Super Kami Dende]

The best part about Garrosh going full psycho Tyrant was I got to kill him :3

[Kithelle]

I disagree with you OP, I think Garrosh was rather aggressive and short sighted since Wrath...soon as he got Warchief he went in Cata he went evil...the only good thing I've seen from him Cata and beyond was him killing the officer after he bombed a Druid training area...but that may have been pissed because he wasted a good bomb on a useless target...so even if he was *good* in that act is debatable.

[Magnagarde]

Yep, totally against WMDs. Because, you know, that bomb built itself and wasn't totally intended to be used somewhere.

Where did I ever talk about WMDs? You're basically countering my post through the prism of someone else's arguement, bringing up WMDs.

The point is the killing of innocents. The Stonetalon town was populated by innocents and so was Theramore. It is a clear contradiction of character.