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  1. #241
    no please, never pvp gear.

    I hate pvp gear since wow beta.

  2. #242
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post

    Blizzard was wildly successful and profitable since its early days, and from the first days of its existence the "game company" has always had a major financial partner.

    What I've spoken about isn't whether Blizz has been "wildly successful" or just reasonably so.

    WoW was lucky. It took off like crazy when it was launched in large part from EQ players who were sick of what they'd done to that game and were waiting for it to be revamped when WoW hit. There was something like 800k MMORPG players just waiting for the next good MMO and WoW happened to be ready at that time (and some were the old Warcraft players/fans). Thus WoW started with 500k players from the git - a number most games could only dream of.

    It has to do with the level of greed and the "race to the bottom" mentality that has taken over at Blizz in the past several years since Acti. This whole new PvP system was fluff designed to sell subs at the start of the expansion. Beyond that it's Blizz saying 'fuck you, suckers!', but they made their initial profit and/or had a lot of WoW players that left and bought OW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Well now you gone and done it, you quoted me quoting you quoting him and responding to that. I wasn't as much responding to you specifically but the quote you quoted chiming in on why that doesn't work similar to a discussion round as a third party.

    kk then, we got our wires crossed.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2016-12-28 at 05:37 PM.

  3. #243
    Deleted
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Please help me understand what exactly do you enjoy in a BG game or arena game that you lost? The map? The joy of participating in a semi-organized team environment? Being annihilated 3-4 vs 1 by opponent team? Being GY camped? The shit honor gains at the end? The absence of AP tokens or tokens of value? To name a few of the things that happen in a game you lose.

    There is absolutely no reason to play BGs if you are constantly losing them. There is absolutely no reason to bother with pvp if you don't have at least a few friends. You will gain nothing but frustration and waste of time. And in Legion Im sure everyone has better things to do than waste 20 min of his time losing the game but being a good sport in his mind.

    No reward = no reason to play. Its nothing to do with corporate mentality or fair play or whatever nonsense people say to justify being losers.


    I only play Random BG and they are just fun to play, sure its the most fun to play at close match that you win by 1499-1500.
    But the fact that you lose sometimes makes it more fun to win, if i won every time what would be the point of playing since I would already know the outcome of the match before it starts, thats not fun at all.

    Random BG have become mutch closer in legion than they were in WOD.
    Last edited by mmoce1fe1dc1b1; 2016-12-28 at 12:58 AM.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    You don't understand the point I am making, or if you do you hide it well.

    It is telling that all you can say about it is that you "can't believe I am making it".

    Google the meaning of the word "suppose". I guess you are stuck on that word. Your "the reality is bla bla bla" is absolutely, completely irrelevant.

    The advice to "get better" does not work if applied universally, by design. That's the point.
    Nobody is applying it universally by Design, that's where you're wrong.

    The Devs aren't designing a system in which they expect everyone in the system to get better at the same time (or at all).

    They are designing a system for the player to decide how they want to use it. They know some will do it for fun and not care about getting better, some will do it for a little gear but not take it seriously, some will play and try to get better and won't, some will play to try to get better and succeed.

    Your logic that somehow, somewhere, someone designed the system with the expectation that some type of behavior will be enforced or influenced "universally" is so broken that I'm sitting here trying to figure out what else you could be talking about because it can't POSSIBLY be the point it SEEMS like you are trying to make.

  5. #245
    Bloodsail Admiral Winterstrife's Avatar
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    Yes bring them back, so PvE pleebs like me can purchase the good looking sets to mog over some of the terribad looking PvE gear!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...trife/advanced
    WoW: Winterstrife, Level 120 Human Paladin | ESO: Strife Valor, CP 610 Dunmer Magblade | GW2: Inquisitor Strife, Level 80 Human Renegede.

  6. #246
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    "Look at my neglibel [sic] ammount [sic] of HK!". The game is 12 years old, that roughly translates into 4380 days. Which means if you have started at the beginning that's about 27 honor kills a day. Or less than a single BG. Farm groups used to be a thing, groups that would rack up several hundred kills in a single Battleground also.

    No, your ammount [sic] of HK says very little about you or how invested you are in PvP. Especially since things such as Tol Barad, Wintergraps [sic] or Ashran would hand out massive ammounts [sic] of HK for very little actual PvP. Having to resort to HK as an argument while ignoring the massive drop in participation in PvP actually makes you LESS believable.
    Well at least I got you so excited you started typing too fast.

    Meanwhile you think playing 1 BG per day every day for 12 years is "negligible," I mean, "neglibel" [sic]. Hell, I probably haven't even pissed at least once a day every day for the past 12 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    They are designing a system for the player to decide how they want to use it. They know some will do it for fun and not care about getting better, some will do it for a little gear but not take it seriously, some will play and try to get better and won't, some will play to try to get better and succeed.
    Right now, people who want to PvP can actually PvP without getting roflstomped by arena geared turd premades while half their teammates are bots. I don't care how anyone fucking slices it. PvP is better now than it has been in half a decade.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    Nobody is applying it universally by Design, that's where you're wrong.

    The Devs aren't designing a system in which they expect everyone in the system to get better at the same time (or at all).

    They are designing a system for the player to decide how they want to use it. They know some will do it for fun and not care about getting better, some will do it for a little gear but not take it seriously, some will play and try to get better and won't, some will play to try to get better and succeed.

    Your logic that somehow, somewhere, someone designed the system with the expectation that some type of behavior will be enforced or influenced "universally" is so broken that I'm sitting here trying to figure out what else you could be talking about because it can't POSSIBLY be the point it SEEMS like you are trying to make.
    You are trying very hard not to understand.

    When you don't have gear in PVE, the advice to "get better" works. You get to higher difficulties, you get better gear, everybody else are happily going about their business.

    When you don't have gear in PVP, the advice to "get better" does not work. You get to higher ratings, you get better gear, but you pushed down someone else who followed the advice before and he does not get gear although he did get better too. You are in a rat race. By design, only 5% or so will get gear from PVP that is an upgrade for them.

    Sum total, you get gear for PVP by doing PVE. That's true in 95% of the cases. The remaining 5% can get gear from PVP. The figure of 5% CAN NOT BE IMPROVED. IT IS THIS SMALL BY DESIGN. The devs HAVE to design a system where the best gear for PVP comes from PVP. Your last paragraph is complete nonsense. They HAVE to do it, we had years of experience on that, it does not work any other way and they agreed on that multiple times. But in Legion, this does not work for 95% of the players. By design. They get gear for PVP from PVE, because they CAN NOT get gear for PVP from PVP. By fucking design. This is broken.

    The end.

    PS: You know what happens when 5% get rewards and 95% get fuck all? Those 95% start leaving. That's what we see with the ladder which collapsed. Go see the numbers. So what happens then? Well, then happens the fun thing. The 5% eligible for the rewards stop being the 5%, they become, say, 10%. Suddenly, half of them are no longer eligible for the rewards. They aren't good. That's what we see with the titles. Go see the rage threads on the official forums. Unlike some here who can't put 2 and 2 together, Blizzard see that this will just end PVP very fast if left unattended. So right now they are running like headless chickens and we will absolutely, unquestionably have big bribes aimed at PVPers in 7.1.5 and 7.2. Way more than just an item that allows raising AK on an alt, way, way more. The only question is will this be enough or has Legion PVP already been finished. We'll see in season 2.
    Last edited by rda; 2016-12-28 at 06:47 AM.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    no please, never pvp gear.

    I hate pvp gear since wow beta.
    there was no PvP gear in the WoW beta.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Pvp guy View Post
    Lol ok, I'm not being the one not making sense here. You, as usual, resort to your tinfoil hattery and claim anyone who thinks differently than you must be a Blizz defending shill. I even agree with you on the subject that winning should be rewarding, yet you continue to come up with nonsense trash to keep dragging this out. At no point did I say players should play for NO rewards, so way to try to twist words to suit your own agenda. Just more of your nonsense I guess.
    At no point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pvp guy View Post
    And since someone mentioned motivation to pvp tied to the rewards you get, you shouldn't need motivation to pvp. Your motivation should be because you like to pvp and that is what you like to do in this game. I dare say the people who need motivation to pvp are dragonslayers.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  10. #250
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    there was no PvP gear in the WoW beta.
    Psssssst. Come on now. They always hated it and the fact that Gladiator spots are down by a HUGE margin compared to the very end of one of the worst expansions says nothing.
    @Helltrixz, look at the Gladi spots. Season 3 in WoD was the very end of an atrocious expansion that saw many, many people quit across the board. It still had nearly 5 times as many gladiator spots. And no, this isn't because it was "long". It's because even at the end activity was that much higher. You should see a spike at the very start of an expansion, when many people return and the player numbers are at the highest long before fatigue kicks in. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Psssssst. Come on now. They always hated it and the fact that Gladiator spots are down by a HUGE margin compared to the very end of one of the worst expansions says nothing.
    @Helltrixz, look at the Gladi spots. Season 3 in WoD was the very end of an atrocious expansion that saw many, many people quit across the board. It still had nearly 5 times as many gladiator spots. And no, this isn't because it was "long". It's because even at the end activity was that much higher. You should see a spike at the very start of an expansion, when many people return and the player numbers are at the highest long before fatigue kicks in. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite.
    Surprisingly, 80% less players on the ladder didn't reduce my queue times for arena at all, I don't play vs. the same people repeatedly at my pleb rating of 1600-1700 in 2s, and my BG experience has largely been the same for the last 3 expansions.

    The only difference is that I don't really farm for PvP gear anymore, and BGs are not as cancerous as they were in the past with the exception of Arathi Basin. I just play.

    Don't really have much to say to all of your stats.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by axiom View Post
    Dear mmo useres... plz help me to shout this as loud as you can:

    Plz bring us pvp gear back! I hate pvp without pvp gear... it feels stupid and even for the casual players it was nice to farm!

    Pvp gear with more stam could stop the hole one shotting thing...

    What do you guys think?

    are you talking about World pvp? Cause that is the only place one shotting occurs...if not then they just need to adjust the pvp templates.

    PVP gear is pointless. You are there to pvp. You only want to have pvp gear so you can mass kill those that do not have pvp gear...which isnt fun pvp gameplay.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    You are trying very hard not to understand.

    When you don't have gear in PVE, the advice to "get better" works. You get to higher difficulties, you get better gear, everybody else are happily going about their business.

    When you don't have gear in PVP, the advice to "get better" does not work. You get to higher ratings, you get better gear, but you pushed down someone else who followed the advice before and he does not get gear although he did get better too. You are in a rat race. By design, only 5% or so will get gear from PVP that is an upgrade for them.

    Sum total, you get gear for PVP by doing PVE. That's true in 95% of the cases. The remaining 5% can get gear from PVP. The figure of 5% CAN NOT BE IMPROVED. IT IS THIS SMALL BY DESIGN. The devs HAVE to design a system where the best gear for PVP comes from PVP. Your last paragraph is complete nonsense. They HAVE to do it, we had years of experience on that, it does not work any other way and they agreed on that multiple times. But in Legion, this does not work for 95% of the players. By design. They get gear for PVP from PVE, because they CAN NOT get gear for PVP from PVP. By fucking design. This is broken.

    The end.

    PS: You know what happens when 5% get rewards and 95% get fuck all? Those 95% start leaving. That's what we see with the ladder which collapsed. Go see the numbers. So what happens then? Well, then happens the fun thing. The 5% eligible for the rewards stop being the 5%, they become, say, 10%. Suddenly, half of them are no longer eligible for the rewards. They aren't good. That's what we see with the titles. Go see the rage threads on the official forums. Unlike some here who can't put 2 and 2 together, Blizzard see that this will just end PVP very fast if left unattended. So right now they are running like headless chickens and we will absolutely, unquestionably have big bribes aimed at PVPers in 7.1.5 and 7.2. Way more than just an item that allows raising AK on an alt, way, way more. The only question is will this be enough or has Legion PVP already been finished. We'll see in season 2.
    There is nothing stopping ANYONE from breaking into that 5% if they truly want to, which is why you are wrong.

    The REAL problem is this: breaking into the top 5% will take time, effort and patience - all things that MOST of the 95% don't want to invest into improving. It's easier to sit on the forums and complain.

  14. #254
    Nah, gear has no place in pvp, stop confusing it with pve.

    PVE needs a gear treadmill because the next raid has to be harder than the current raid, so gear has to increase.

    PVP is totally different from that.

    PVP is player vs player, skill v skill. There is no place for gear in that equation. If you can't compete at the current level, Blizz should not give you gear to help you. You have to practice and up your skill to advance.

    If you are crushing everyone in pvp, why give you even better gear? To make it even more one sided? Yeah, that sounds like it would be great for the pvp community......

    When I beat someone at pvp (or if I lose) I want it to be because of skill, not gear......

    I could see you wanting more gear for pvp if you are a griefer, but that is not real pvp, that is trolling....

  15. #255
    Deleted
    @Normie, may I take your post that is made up of nothing but personal attacks on the people you disagree with as you conceding the argument? While attacking people over spelling errors wholly ignoring that many here aren't native English speakers and those have absolutely nothing to do with the arguments made might've seemed as a smart move to you. It effectively means that is what you've been reduced to, that is the best you can do at this point.

    Which would mean the discussion is over and you've lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    PVP is totally different from that.
    Yes, which is why PvP is as dead as never before, at the very beginning of an expansion no less. So far all you guys brought are claims made with no effort to back them up even as participation is crashing aswell as a lot of character assasination towards all those who disagree. At no point do you bother to address any of the points made by the opposition apparently caused by a lack of arguments that would allow you to do so.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    @Normie, may I take your post that is made up of nothing but personal attacks on the people you disagree with as you conceding the argument? While attacking people over spelling errors wholly ignoring that many here aren't native English speakers and those have absolutely nothing to do with the arguments made might've seemed as a smart move to you. It effectively means that is what you've been reduced to, that is the best you can do at this point.

    Which would mean the discussion is over and you've lost?


    Yes, which is why PvP is as dead as never before, at the very beginning of an expansion no less. So far all you guys brought are claims made with no effort to back them up even as participation is crashing aswell as a lot of character assasination towards all those who disagree. At no point do you bother to address any of the points made by the opposition apparently caused by a lack of arguments that would allow you to do so.
    What are you talking about?

    I am not assassinating character. Think of the pvp only games out there. There is no gear treadmill in any of those games.

    Does Overwatch have a gear grind?

    The reasons why pvp is dead has nothing to do with gear.

    1) No new bg's, maps or modes (going on 2 x pacs now)

    2) Messed up match making (ever have no healers and other team has 2? Tough match to win there and not very fun).

    3) Unbalanced specs and abilities

    4) They launched with the idea of resetting your pvp abilities every prestige rank. That is just a bad idea.

    5) They need a more coherent reward system. A chance at a random piece of gear, with random stats and (most likely) many ilevels below what you have equipped probably isn't going to do it. This doesn't mean add a gear grind, there just has to be an intelligent system that people understand.

    6) Many people exploiting the system and Blizz does not respond fast enough.

    The answer to none of these is to add a gear grind. Heck, why on Earth would you even want to add an artificial gear grind to pvp?

  17. #257
    Fuck no...

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    There is nothing stopping ANYONE from breaking into that 5% if they truly want to, which is why you are wrong.
    If they all try hard enough, everyone playing can win a game of musical chairs. #TrueFact
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    If they all try hard enough, everyone playing can win a game of musical chairs. #TrueFact
    Except we aren't talking about EVERYONE WINNING, we are talking about the people who WANT to win winning.

    The premise of your reply is even more wrong than the other guy.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    Except we aren't talking about EVERYONE WINNING, we are talking about the people who WANT to win winning.

    The premise of your reply is even more wrong than the other guy.
    If we're talking about overall performance of a game element then we are talking about what the typical player is experiencing, not what a necessarily atypical player could accomplish. So, no, you're the one who is all wrong here.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

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