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  1. #481
    Regarding reputation to factions in Legion, its hardly a grind. Sure, it will take some time, but thats because you cant do dailys in every zone for every faction, everyday.

    Would be a grind if you could farm mobs to get rep for them or the dailys for all factions would be up everyday. Right now you get rep from WQ and there aint that much of those to do.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeceeA52 View Post
    You know the Pokemon theme?

    "I wanna be the very best, that no one ever was"

    That's me. I want to be the very best that no one ever was. But in order to compete with the very best, I have to sit on my CPU every day for 12+ hours and do repeatable content to get AP/RNG Legendary, then go into raid and compete with people who have nothing to do, or simply better luck. Luck part I can get over believe it or not. RNG is life. I accept that. What I don't accept is the unlimited ability of some people to play and farm and get astronomically ahead of me if I decide to take a break.

    Or the fact that leveling an alt isn't practical. Why level an alt? So I can just go out and farm AP on it as well?

    What happen to the World of Warcraft where you flew around don't random daily quests, mining and herbing because it ment something and you can make money. Farming primals, mounts, dusts, making gold, raiding 1 content, but good content. When did World of Warcraft forsake itself. Every expansion starts of great but then the cracks appear and there seems to be no fix. Winter comes and the cracks expand.

    Changing so many classes in the middle of the teir/expansion. Whose bright idea was that? "We need to so something?!?!"

    Overall, to this day, WoTLK and BC were the best. Legion started off as one of the best, smooth, no issues, fun. But it slowly turned into a nightmare, a nightmare known as Repeatable AP Grind.

    Couldn't we have a daily AP limiit or something PRACTICAL?????


    So many human benders.
    Leveling/playing an alt this expansion is easy af btw. Plus progressing artifacts is a nice personal thing that makes every play session somewhat rewarding.

    Also, I know for a fact that if they put a cap on AP/Artifact ranks we'd get threads like

    BLIZZ WTF WHY CANT I GET MORE RANKS IN MY WEAPON, THIS SYSTEM IS STUPID
    and

    I STARTED LATE NOW IM BEHIND ON MY WEAPON AND I CANT CATCH UP THIS SYSTEM IS DUMB

  3. #483
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    Suramar rep a grind? What fucking game have you been playing for 12+ years? I have every single faction exalted....if it can be exalted its exalted.

    Suramar a grind? Go grab the insane title....teleport back in time and grind out the white tiger mount... go to WOD and get the red hell boar...grind...grind? Go to MoP and get 9,999 dino bones at level. Get some perspective...suramar a grind.... /facepalm
    Oh you are one of those "everything is black&white" people.

    Yes it's a grind. No matter how many exalted rep grinds you've done.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by damonskye View Post
    You only need 34 items on your weapon if you're one of those far-at-the-top progression guilds looking for world firsts. You only need to farm 4 hours a day if you fit that category.

    Otherwise, you can be a casual day-player who may raid once or twice a week and be totally fine.
    You do realize that people who come later than World First guilds actually need those 35+ traits even more, right? In the past, they would eventually outgear the bosses and reduce the difficulty with superior items. Except current gearing system means that top guilds inventories are already filled with Titanforged gear, leaving little room for improvement - and they still wipe hundreds of times. As such, there's only those 0.5% bonuses left to bridge the gap... too bad they will also have more of those.

    Seriously, just listen to how this sounds. "You can afford to have your character be 0.5-10% weaker than best players in the world and still kill the same bosses eventually, because you're worse than them." It doesn't make sense to me, but hey.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Oh you are one of those "everything is black&white" people.

    Yes it's a grind. No matter how many exalted rep grinds you've done.
    So whats the difference between a grind and playing the game? Because if you just play the game, at some point you are going to have all Artifact Weapons at 54, and all Factions at exhalted, and 2 Legendaries, and so on.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    Suramar rep a grind? What fucking game have you been playing for 12+ years? I have every single faction exalted....if it can be exalted its exalted.

    Suramar a grind? Go grab the insane title....teleport back in time and grind out the white tiger mount... go to WOD and get the red hell boar...grind...grind? Go to MoP and get 9,999 dino bones at level. Get some perspective...suramar a grind.... /facepalm

    ohh and as i said in my original post, Surmar was a enjoyment -storywise. (god i hate that city) but story wise, it has been fantastic.
    You mix things together. Insane title, the red hellboar and the dino bones weren't give you any player power. If you collect mounts, sure you might wanna do them, but having them doesn't give you 100k dps, and they don't open up a way to progress towards it. You do these grinds because you see the reward in fron of you: a prestigious title or mount. And that's IT.
    Please for the love of god don't mix together these. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
    Last edited by Lei; 2016-12-28 at 03:58 PM.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    So whats the difference between a grind and playing the game? Because if you just play the game, at some point you are going to have all Artifact Weapons at 54, and all Factions at exhalted, and 2 Legendaries, and so on.
    Agree. If you just play the game you will get there in a decent pace. Play the game because you want to, not because you HAVE to.

    I get AP in almost every damn quest there is in this game. Lucky for me I enjoy questing :P around lvl 30 on dps & tank weps.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    So whats the difference between a grind and playing the game? Because if you just play the game, at some point you are going to have all Artifact Weapons at 54, and all Factions at exhalted, and 2 Legendaries, and so on.
    And by that point, they'll add new traits and Legendaries which are even better than what we have currently. Or they'll up the limit from 2 to 3/4 or whatever.

  9. #489
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    So many stupid people screaming "MMOs are grinds" dont understand that WoW never has been as time consuming and grindy as it is now since classic. If we wanted to play classic WoW, we'd sign in Nostalrius or whatever that private server is called.

  10. #490
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    So whats the difference between a grind and playing the game? Because if you just play the game, at some point you are going to have all Artifact Weapons at 54, and all Factions at exhalted, and 2 Legendaries, and so on.
    If you don't need all that, yes you might eventually get it and continue to not need it even after you got it. If you need it now, you have to grind NOW. And playing the game turns into grind. And the complaints here are not about grind itself, but about the amount of it. A little grind with clear milestones doesn't hurt. Endless repetitive grind for a chance at RNG on the other hand...
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    So many stupid people screaming "MMOs are grinds" dont understand that WoW never has been as time consuming and grindy as it is now since classic. If we wanted to play classic WoW, we'd sign in Nostalrius or whatever that private server is called.
    Also they forget that even Vanilla was praised as being far less grindy that its competitors. That was one of crucial parts of its success - finally an MMO where you didn't have to kill thousands of mobs to reach next level, questing was viable path of advancement, death wasn't as punishing and so on. It was grindy by today's standards, sure, but far more casual than the alternatives.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    And by that point, they'll add new traits and Legendaries which are even better than what we have currently. Or they'll up the limit from 2 to 3/4 or whatever.
    Yeah, so what? You just keep playing the game if you enjoy, and if you don't then stop.

  13. #493
    Because grinding WQ's is diffrent from grinding daily's right?
    Op go home .

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Oh you are one of those "everything is black&white" people.

    Yes it's a grind. No matter how many exalted rep grinds you've done.

    and your one of those people that needs to "label" every one that disagree with you. AP is a grind only if you as a player care about that grind. There is a difference. An important difference. Something you are failing to realise. As i said in a earlier post, the issue is wow player base is in three groups...wait now i think of it four:

    (1) Those that get there toon to the best they can ...and then only log for raids
    (2) Those that get there toon to the best they can ...and then go "now what" and go pvp/ach farming/pet battles/goldshire shennighans.
    (3) PVPERS
    (4) all the casual masses that do what ever they do.

    I belong to group #2. The "AP grind" only matters to the people in group (1) and (2) and (3).

    (3) will not do it ...its why they are quitting.
    (1) & (2) are getting burned out doing it ...which us why you see mythic guilds that been around for a long time collapsing....and why you see recruitment thread being spammed like crazy.

    and (4)...the mass majority of people don't care.

    See we are arguing the same thing but with one very important nuisance. That nuisance needs to be stressed...that nuisance is where the issue lies.

    Yes AP is a grind but only to us (myself included) who make it so because of how we approach the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    You mix things together. Insane title, the red hellboar and the dino bones weren't give you any player power. If you collect mounts, sure you might wanna do them, but having them doesn't give you 100k dps, and they don't open up a way to progress towards it. You do these grinds because you see the reward in fron of you: a prestigious title or mount. And that's IT.
    Please for the love of god don't mix together these. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
    I am not. I am saying Surmar isn't a grind...its just gameplay with a very interesting story line. And what part of the suramer quest line gave me 100k dps? So far its just been AP and story line am i missing something or forgetting something? Just go do 1 mythic + dungeon and you get the same AP. Surmar was mention because it was part of how someone got to their 35 trait.

  15. #495
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    See we are arguing the same thing but with one very important nuisance. That nuisance needs to be stressed...that nuisance is where the issue lies.

    Yes AP is a grind but only to us (myself included) who make it so because of how we approach the game.
    There's one more nuance. AP system is made for groups 1-2-3, not 4. Group 4 doesn't even need it.
    So knowing the context we can safely return to the discussion of the grind in the system that is designed specifically for us. Right?
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  16. #496
    WoD: "Waaaaaaa nothing to doooooo to progress my char!"
    Legion: "Repetitive grind"

    Welcome to the forums.
    It's not the same people complaining. In WoD it was the farmville casual audience, who never step in raids but lfr. Now it's the raiding audience, who now has to grind endlessly if they want to keep up.

    WoW endgame raiding is dying, the top scene is down to a few guilds. The casual mythic scene is starting to burn out. This expansion will take it's toll on the game, what will be left is a few mythic raiding guild and a bunch of casual zombies doing world quests and low raid tiers. People who left mid expac won't be able to come back for next tiers unless they start the endless grind again.

    This xpac will end with under 1m sub. Artifact power is a failed concept.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    So many stupid people screaming "MMOs are grinds" dont understand that WoW never has been as time consuming and grindy as it is now since classic. If we wanted to play classic WoW, we'd sign in Nostalrius or whatever that private server is called.
    Many people use the word "grind" like it was a thing like 1 pound or 1 feet. Aka WoW is = 1 grind. Always and everything, anything. Insane title = 800+ mythic dungeons = 1000 mythic+ dungeons = 10000 world quests = rank 3 recipes = resistance gear farm = 1 grind.
    Looking at this equation, they're clearly right!
    Last edited by Lei; 2016-12-28 at 04:09 PM.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by pagepro View Post
    We haven't even gotten to the tier raids and already the flaws are showing. The amount of grind that legion created puts any previous expansions to shame. Even netherwing eggs wasn't this bad. What we have here is an infinite amount of grind.

    Artifact power is something that should never have been implemented. It forces players to spend as much time as they can completing the same dungeons over and over.I'm not even going to talk about legendaries but I will say that it adds to the problem immensely. Artifact power forces a raider to log in every 1-3 day to complete all emissary quests and clear the map of artifact power. If you stop at any point you are already behind. Lets not forget the time gate that is artifact knowledge. Past expansions I was happy just logging in at raid time, raiding, and logging off. It kept the game fun for me and everyone else in my guild. Now Blizzard has forced everyone to play.

    This causes the game to become stale quickly. I am in a mythic guild that is 7/7 2/3 and we have had people quit due to being burned out.

    Casual players may not notice the problem and why should they? They aren't concerned with artifact power and are able to play the game at their own pace. However mythic raiders are experiencing the burnout. Just these last 2 months 10 raiders have left saying that they are burnt out on legion. I don't blame them. Having to run 50+ mythic dungeons a day takes its toll on a person.

    This doesn't include needing to farm gold and herbs and AUGMENT RUNES outside of raid which is another 2-4 hours in itself.

    On top of all of this the raids themselves are not even worth completing. The fights are boring as hell (mythic odyn) and bring nothing new to the table. What happened to the quality that was Ulduar? Nighthold on the ptr leaves nothing to be desired. The least Blizzard could do was make the raid fights interesting but no.

    What we are left with Is the player feeling cheated and unsatisfied. I'm staring at 3 million more artifact power until my next trait and I can't help but feeling like I just don't care about this anymore.

    Its not fun. Its not satisfying. Its a waste of time.
    The game you like to play actually forces you to play it? If you have to use the word 'force' then maybe the game isn't for you anymore. I think I speak for the majority of WoW players, that we are ecstatic that we actually have things to do in the game. I can't believe you were happy with the state of the game where you logged in only to raid. Thank any higher deity thats not the case anymore.

    What you are talking about here affects a ridiculously small portion of players. I'm 7/7M 1/3M now, and I've always raided the hardest content, and I've literally never farmed augment runes. Holy hell, that's sounds like an awful time. It's your approach to the game, and your guilds it seems. 50 M+ a day? What? I'm on my 38th trait, would've been higher, slacked off a bit. I really don't know what you have been doing. I try to be understanding to everyone that plays the game of course, and the game has its flaws, but when people bitch things like these, specifically whining how the game isn't tailored specifically for them, it kinda gets me going.

    Is your argument really to have the game designed for .000000000000000000000001% of people?

  19. #499
    Overall I think it would be healthy for both the game and the players if people sat down and though about why they play wow and how they play it.

    Do I have to do most of the stuff in the game? Must I do it everyday?
    Is this fun?
    How much of my time online do I spend not having fun? How much of it just "grind" or "work"?
    Do I really need to farm AP and farm legendary for hours everyday? Does the guild I am in require that?


    Grinding is part of a MMO and should always been in certain aspects of the genre. Like getting reputation with a faction.

    People just need to be careful not to spend to much time online doing boring, mindless farming/grinding for stuff. No matter what kind of content. Find out what you enjoy and do that more often.

    I have played since classic and I have learned this the hard way, many times lol. I have farmed for stuff and HATED the game and took breaks just to come back few months later and repeat same mistake. Farm/grind for something and grow a hatred along the way. Did I really need to? nah, not really. Many of the stuff I have grinded for, I can still complete today.


    I remember when I decided to get Loremaster title. Sure, content is easy and no real challenge when it came to the mobs.. But the amout of quests? the amount of traveling? Yeah quite alot. But I decided to do it zone by zone, over a long period of time. Everytime I started a zone I did it because I wanted to. I enjoyed each and every zone. When I felt bored of it, I just stopped. Picked it up again later on.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Anon56 View Post
    It's not the same people complaining. In WoD it was the farmville casual audience, who never step in raids but lfr. Now it's the raiding audience, who now has to grind endlessly if they want to keep up.

    WoW endgame raiding is dying, the top scene is down to a few guilds. The casual mythic scene is starting to burn out. This expansion will take it's toll on the game, what will be left is a few mythic raiding guild and a bunch of casual zombies doing world quests and low raid tiers. People who left mid expac won't be able to come back for next tiers unless they start the endless grind again.

    This xpac will end with under 1m sub. Artifact power is a failed concept.
    Again, method, world first method, their main tank/raid leader is at 36/38 respectively.
    If they havent been grinding, why have you?

    You legit don't *need* AP past the first 5% increase, which is easily attainable atm.
    Casual mythic? My guild is the definition of casual mythic, playerbase is 28+ years old generally with jobs/families. Entire raid is 35+ and most are raidloggers. Unfortunately people actually like playing the game so they level keystones (not farm maw for AP) and get AP there as well.

    You do not have to farm anything.

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