Netanyahu threatened New Zealand; called UN resolution "declaration of war"

[Alydael]

Says you. Meanwhile all other people understand that it's not beneficial to the US, to have an outgoing president trying to undermine the incoming president, in regards to our foreign policy. This is not how prior presidents behaved. Also, prior presidents understood the important role the US has in the continued existence of Israel as a nation state.

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You fail to see the issue. This is newly naming the Western Wall area as occupied Palestinian territory, which is new, and ridiculous, considering no Palestinians have ever lived there.

The don't get it. Palestine is the "cause du jour" of the world, so people are going to jump on the bandwagon, not bother to do any research or fact check and just believe what their good buddies at the UN tell them to think.

I also agree with you on the outgoing President. I have never seen anything like this, it is disgraceful. He did a bunch of other things on the way out the door as well. It is like his final middle finger to the USA on his way out the door. His wife with her "no hope" comment as well.

There is a million reasons not to back the Palestinians on this. Instead of going into all of that, this can be summed up in a few statements.

Israel controls that land by right of conquest. The same right most countries in the world today use to possess their land.

[Mihalik]

The 1967 borders also had the western wall settlements as non-Israel land. I don't know what you are on about...

I explained before the 1967 border is an armistice line. The relevant border set by the UN is the 1947 which sets aside Jerusalem is neutral territory, which essentially creates the conditions for negotiating a partition. But the current Israeli policy of expanding East Jerusalem and settling people around it, makes partition negotiations impossible as it turn Arab/Christian/Palestinian quarters enclaves disconnected from the Palestinian territories.

[Tijuana]

I'm not sure what you are on about. We kinda established that the POTUS is the head of state of the United States and not of Israel, and his responsibilities lie with securing US interests, which include a two state solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a peace deal with Iran.

The Israeli right wing has done everything in its power to sabotage both of those things, and thus the interests of the United States itself.

If anything, it is absolutely mindblowing that the US is willing to put up with the constant risk Israel poses to American interests, not to mention the constant backstabbing that comes out of Israel, which never ever even takes US interests into consideration.

I am all for a Jewish state, but the occupation is real, and the settlements are real. There is absolutely no way to reasonably justify the settlements as anything but a landgrab.

If you support Israel with its current politics, you are supporting occupation and ethnic cleansing.

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Please stop lying. I already explain twice that this is not the case. This is the third time I'm pointing this out. Stop it.

They have repeatedly stated that the settlements stop when the rockets stop. If Mexico attacked the US daily, do you think we would not drive them back, and seize some land to provide a buffer?

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I'm not sure what you are on about. We kinda established that the POTUS is the head of state of the United States and not of Israel, and his responsibilities lie with securing US interests, which include a two state solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a peace deal with Iran.

The Israeli right wing has done everything in its power to sabotage both of those things, and thus the interests of the United States itself.

If anything, it is absolutely mindblowing that the US is willing to put up with the constant risk Israel poses to American interests, not to mention the constant backstabbing that comes out of Israel, which never ever even takes US interests into consideration.

I am all for a Jewish state, but the occupation is real, and the settlements are real. There is absolutely no way to reasonably justify the settlements as anything but a landgrab.

If you support Israel with its current politics, you are supporting occupation and ethnic cleansing.

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Please stop lying. I already explain twice that this is not the case. This is the third time I'm pointing this out. Stop it.

I'm sorry but, I fail to see you as a more credible source than the text of the resolution, and every document that can be googled. Show your source; your feelings are not a source.

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I explained before the 1967 border is an armistice line. The relevant border set by the UN is the 1947 which sets aside Jerusalem is neutral territory, which essentially creates the conditions for negotiating a partition. But the current Israeli policy of expanding East Jerusalem and settling people around it, makes partition negotiations impossible as it turn Arab/Christian/Palestinian quarters enclaves disconnected from the Palestinian territories.

The negotiations are already impossible, since Palestinians refuse to even speak to Israel about anything. Get serious.

[Macaquerie]

They have repeatedly stated that the settlements stop when the rockets stop. If Mexico attacked the US daily, do you think we would not drive them back, and seize some land to provide a buffer?

Well that did already happen, except for the whole "Mexico attacking us" part.

[Tijuana]

Personally, I think the Israelis show too much respect for a nation that is essentially just terrorists who's families were not even there when this started.

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Well that did already happen, except for the whole "Mexico attacking us" part.

Right. The US is to blame for everything. Do Liberals ever change the drums they beat?

[Deleted]

Saying you intend to force Jews to not live in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, where they have lived for over a thousand years is deeply offensive.

It's outrageous that after 8 years, Obama orchestrates a cheap shot like this in his last month in office. It's extremely unprecedented for a lame duck to do stuff like this. Bush Sr made sure to get permission from incoming Bill Clinton before he took military action in Somalia. This is a classless move.

It's an outrage nothing has been "done" sooner about Israel breaking international law.

[Mihalik]

Israel controls that land by right of conquest. The same right most countries in the world today use to possess their land.

Right of conquest doesn't exist in modern international law. It's a concept we abandoned well over a century ago. Furthermore the 4th Geneva Convention which Israel is a signatory of, expressly forbids the settlement of occupied territories.

And finally the displacement of populations under international law is in fact considered Ethnic Cleansing.

The "Right of Conquest" is utterly meaningless and completely illegal, and that is something pretty much every other country in the world agrees on, as does Israel (on paper).

[Alydael]

Israel is a spoiled brat with a victim complex. Their people were once mistreated, now they're in a place of power and they really can't handle it.

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If we're all gonna argue that a place where our ancestors once lived still belongs to their descendants thousands of years later we'd have a lot of wars.

Have you even read the history of the region, at all?

Britain controlled all that land. After WWII, they couldn't hold it anymore and it gave half to Palestine, half to Israel. They gave it to Israel, making it Israel's property. That is not "ancient history," it happened right after WWII. Days later, the Palestinians attacked (yes Palestinians are the aggressor in all of this) and tried to greedily take it all.

All land gained after that by Israel came as the result of the Palestinians attacking Israel (sometimes with Allies, like Egypt). Israel beat them back and took some land. Making that land Israel's by right of conquest.

Since it has consistantly been Palestine attacking Israel over the years and the Palestinians have consistantly stated that they don't want part of Israel back, they want it all- if I was Israel, I would not give them back a single foot.

Palestine is just manipulating the clowns at the UN to get as much land as they can before they have to attack Israel again to try and get the rest. The UN is falling for it like the corrupt buffoons they are.

Before you rush to Palestines defense like the Golden Knight of the West, consider this: How do you think the palestinians would have treated the Israelis had they actually won all those wars they started? Not well, I assure you.....

[Tijuana]

Right of conquest doesn't exist in modern international law. It's a concept we abandoned well over a century ago. Furthermore the 4th Geneva Convention which Israel is a signatory of, expressly forbids the settlement of occupied territories.

And finally the displacement of populations under international law is in fact considered Ethnic Cleansing.

The "Right of Conquest" is utterly meaningless and completely illegal, and that is something pretty much every other country in the world agrees on, as does Israel (on paper).

If you want to return all land to the original owners, then what year are we going back to as a start point? We need to know that so we don't give France to the wrong people, the Romans or the Germans. Your notion that this is no longer a thing, for over a century, is just ridiculous.

[Alydael]

Right of conquest doesn't exist in modern international law. It's a concept we abandoned well over a century ago. Furthermore the 4th Geneva Convention which Israel is a signatory of, expressly forbids the settlement of occupied territories.

And finally the displacement of populations under international law is in fact considered Ethnic Cleansing.

The "Right of Conquest" is utterly meaningless and completely illegal, and that is something pretty much every other country in the world agrees on, as does Israel (on paper).

Well, if the right of conquest is totally meaningless, as you say, I expect that all countries around the world will proceed to start returning their land they gained through conquest. maybe the US should lead the way and start giving lands back to the Native Americans and Mexico. I am sure China and Russia will follow.

Hey wait, didn't Russia just take land from the Ukraine by conquest a few years ago? Hmm? Seems right of conquest is alive and well......

When all the other countries abandon the land they gained by right of conquest- I am sure Israel will follow.

Until then, you can claim that right of conquest is meaningless and illegal, but your claim is totally meaningless until all the countries start giving their conquested lands back.

[Tijuana]

It's an outrage nothing has been "done" sooner about Israel breaking international law.

Yet, it would be perfectly legal for them to simply wage war against their attackers, killing them all. If Israel wanted to harm the Palestinians, they would merely need to stop feeding them. It's a complex issue; there is no doubt of that. But, this notion that Palestinians are not in the wrong, for endlessly launching rockets in to civilian areas, is just insane. They are 9-5 terrorists, who work 40 hours a week at it. Why is it that Israel is the only nation on earth that is not allowed to defend themselves against terrorism?

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The don't get it. Palestine is the "cause du jour" of the world, so people are going to jump on the bandwagon, not bother to do any research or fact check and just believe what their good buddies at the UN tell them to think.

I also agree with you on the outgoing President. I have never seen anything like this, it is disgraceful. He did a bunch of other things on the way out the door as well. It is like his final middle finger to the USA on his way out the door. His wife with her "no hope" comment as well.

There is a million reasons not to back the Palestinians on this. Instead of going into all of that, this can be summed up in a few statements.

Israel controls that land by right of conquest. The same right most countries in the world today use to possess their land.

Liberals never understand anything but the most simple solutions. They see a wall, with people behind it, and they think that is bad, whether there are terrorists behind it, or prison inmates. Every single Liberal solution is a knee jerk, over simplified response. That is why it's so popular: most humans are not very bright.

[Mihalik]

The negotiations are already impossible, since Palestinians refuse to even speak to Israel about anything. Get serious.

That's also another falsehood. The Palestinians simply recognized the settlements combined with the negotiations for what they are. A stalling tactic combined with a blackmail tool.

The Israeli de facto position is that unless Palestine concedes to X, Y and Z, the settlements will continue. Which turns the negotiations into blackmail.

The Palestinian position is very reasonable here, they are simply saying that they refuse to negotiate while they have a gun to their heads. This is why they are in favor of this resolution, because of the settlement process is halted, then they can return to negotiations.

Please don't misrepresent reality. Again, both sides carry their share of blame, but let's not pretend this is on the Palestinians alone, and Israel carries no blame.

This is simple fact is OBVIOUS to literally every single member of the international community.

[Tijuana]

That's also another falsehood. The Palestinians simply recognized the settlements combined with the negotiations for what they are. A stalling tactic combined with a blackmail tool.

The Israeli de facto position is that unless Palestine concedes to X, Y and Z, the settlements will continue. Which turns the negotiations into blackmail.

The Palestinian position is very reasonable here, they are simply saying that they refuse to negotiate while they have a gun to their heads. This is why they are in favor of this resolution, because of the settlement process is halted, then they can return to negotiations.

Please don't misrepresent reality. Again, both sides carry their share of blame, but let's not pretend this is on the Palestinians alone, and Israel carries no blame.

This is simple fact is OBVIOUS to literally every single member of the international community.

Except it isn't. The Palestinians launch rockets nearly daily. Do you LEGIT not understand that launching missiles in to civilian areas is terrorism? Do you LEGIT think Israel has no right to defend themselves from a foreign nations attacks? Do you LEGIT think that if Mexico did this to the US, that we would just build a wall and provide them aid, instead of bombing them all the way back to Guatemala, or further???

[Deleted]

Must be fucking like rabbits in Israel, they seem to always need more land to build houses on.

[Mihalik]

Well, if the right of conquest is totally meaningless, as you say, I expect that all countries around the world will proceed to start returning their land they gained through conquest. maybe the US should lead the way and start giving lands back to the Native Americans and Mexico. I am sure China and Russia will follow.

Hey wait, didn't Russia just take land from the Ukraine by conquest a few years ago? Hmm? Seems right of conquest is alive and well......

When all the other countries abandon the land they gained by right of conquest- I am sure Israel will follow.

Until then, you can claim that right of conquest is meaningless and illegal, but your claim is totally meaningless until all the countries start giving their conquested lands back.

Our history is what it is, but again, we collectively recognized that "Right of Conquest" is a stupid idea and that we need to put an end to it, otherwise we just continue fighting over land. This is why we signed treaties ending it. Israel came into existence after that specific date, and it also agreed to this principle.

And I do agree that Russia in fact annexed parts of another country, but even they had the common sense of annexing areas where they had popular and ethnic support, and aren't acting as an occupation force displacing the local population. And finally they actually set up elections and governance to create a semblance of legitimacy where they paint the entire affair as an "exercise of self determination" by the local indigenous populations of those areas.

They didn't displace local ethnic Ukrainians nor have they settled an ethnic Russian population in the area.

I still think the move was shady, and that Russia is in violation of international law, but even they aren't so flippantly in disrespect of it.

[Tijuana]

Our history is what it is, but again, we collectively recognized that "Right of Conquest" is a stupid idea and that we need to put an end to it, otherwise we just continue fighting over land. This is why we signed treaties ending it. Israel came into existence after that specific date, and it also agreed to this principle.

And I do agree that Russia in fact annexed parts of another country, but even they had the common sense of annexing areas where they had popular and ethnic support, and aren't acting as an occupation force displacing the local population. And finally they actually set up elections and governance to create a semblance of legitimacy where they paint the entire affair as an "exercise of self determination" by the local indigenous populations of those areas.

They didn't displace local ethnic Ukrainians nor have they settled an ethnic Russian population in the area.

I still think the move was shady, and that Russia is in violation of international law, but even they aren't so flippantly in disrespect of it.

I mean, why defend terrorism though. Why is only ONE nation on this planet not allowed to defend themselves from terrorism?

The thing that Liberals fail to understand, is that Israel behaved like the rest of the world, they would have just killed the terrorists.

[Mihalik]

Except it isn't. The Palestinians launch rockets nearly daily. Do you LEGIT not understand that launching missiles in to civilian areas is terrorism? Do you LEGIT think Israel has no right to defend themselves from a foreign nations attacks? Do you LEGIT think that if Mexico did this to the US, that we would just build a wall and provide them aid, instead of bombing them all the way back to Guatemala, or further???

There is no connection between the "defense of Israel" and settlements in occupied Palestinian territories. None. I never said Israel suddenly needs to end the occupation, nor has any of the signatories of the resolution have said that.

You are conflating things that have nothing to do with each other beyond simple creating a toxic political environment for negotiations.

The settlements do not shelter Israel from terrorism. If anything, they are intrinsically tied to the continuation of violence.

[Deleted]

And I do agree that Russia in fact annexed parts of another country, but even they had the common sense of annexing areas where they had popular and ethnic support, and aren't acting as an occupation force displacing the local population. And finally they actually set up elections and governance to create a semblance of legitimacy where they paint the entire affair as an "exercise of self determination" by the local indigenous populations of those areas.

They didn't displace local ethnic Ukrainians nor have they settled an ethnic Russian population in the area.

I still think the move was shady, and that Russia is in violation of international law, but even they aren't so flippantly in disrespect of it.

It would never have been Ukrainian to begin with, if Khrushchev hadn't given it away without asking Russia for permission.

[Tijuana]

There is no connection between the "defense of Israel" and settlements in occupied Palestinian territories. None. I never said Israel suddenly needs to end the occupation, nor has any of the signatories of the resolution have said that.

You are conflating things that have nothing to do with each other beyond simple creating a toxic political environment for negotiations.

The settlements do not shelter Israel from terrorism. If anything, they are intrinsically tied to the continuation of violence.

You act as if having the upper hand is a crime, or something. It's very simple, when the rockets stop, the settlements stop. This has been told to the Palestinians repeatedly. Yet, they choose not to negotiate, not to stop terrorist attacks, and continue to literally provide cash rewards for acts of terror. Why do Liberals defend every dictator or terrorist state? It's just bizarre...

Why is Israel the only nation that is not allowed to defend itself from terrorism?

[Jastall]

I am assuming that if Netanyahu is acting as a buffoon internationally it is probably because he needs to do so to keep up with local issues. If there are people in his party ready to usurp him at a sign of weakness he needs to keep his war face on.

Or he could just be a madman, I don't follow internal Israeli policies at all.

Pretty sure local politics have more to do with it. This is the kind of posturing some right-wing people tend to love.