Ninja-pulling.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I agree...the only difference is I will make sure it was NOT accidental first. We know how bad tab targetting is, it is possible to pull something without intending to. Also there are situations like, accidentally walking into a pat, etc. If they're doing it intentionally then I agree 100% with your stance.

Naturally. I do understand accidental pulls and mistakes. This only goes for the player that is directly attempting to tank by pulling beyond my level of comfort, which isn't that bad, as I generally pull large groups. However, I have a good understanding of my own ability to tank, as well as if I am doing other things IRL like watching stocks and updating my numbers there, which will take precedence over a random group on a game, especially a jerk that assumes that I have nothing better to do but push for the fastest possible time to complete a random dungeon or raid.


Essentially, if they become a problem specifically for me by pulling for me repeatedly, I'll simply let them do it and tunnel on being DPS, which is much simpler to do, but still get my satchel at the end because they were impatient.

However, if someone else in the group begins to complain, especially my healer. I whisper them to let him run off on his own and die so we can kick the DPS that is too impatient to care about how others are feeling about the pacing of the dungeon. My healer's opinion on pacing is the most important opinion compared to the DPS as they are the least commodity in group finder options and I don't feel like waiting in queues (actually, I rarely even consider a DPS's opinion, as they are so easy to replace that they don't even really matter).

[Deleted]

If a tank is pulling mobs of two when we can easily kill 5+ and simply won't pull more then I do (on my DH) in heroics only.

[Thage]

Depends. If it's happening a lot, it's usually because the DPS and healer are confident they can handle bigger pulls. I've noticed that people tend to be fine with smaller pulls if you give a heads-up at the beginning that you're an inexperienced tank, but you also catch twice as much hell if things go bad so, double-edged sword. On the other hand, if you're already working at capacity and someone pulls another pack for a giggle, that's when "You pull it, you tank it" comes into play, imo.

[tyrlaan]

Anyone who ninja pulls is the bad player "how about asking the tank and not be an ass at the start"???

This. This x1000. How difficult is it to have a second or two of actual human interaction and ask the tank to go faster before just doing it without asking.

You are in a group. As in part of a team. Don't be a dick.

If you can't handle mere moments of human interaction, maybe just go to the actual dungeon entrance and solo it because group content is not for you.

[Nahela]

If this keeps happening over and over again its probably because you are always going too slow and your DPS is tired of small pulls so they pull more. Usually if thres a recurring theme you should look at yourself rather then blame others.

This is such a flawed mentality. If people have a problem, they should speak up, not just cause more problems. The lack of communication is a huge issue in this community. If you think the group can handle more and the tank is pulling too slow, say something.

As a tank, if people are assholes about it I just let them die. 99% of the time the group is going to go smoother (and faster) if you just let people do their jobs instead of being an impatient jerk. I pull at the speed that I think I can safely handle, but if the group speaks up or the healing is doing well, I'll do more. Again, really just a few civil words is all it takes to communicate.

[Hiricine]

My policy--- If I can solo the pull, I never wait for anyone.

[laplacedemon]

I don't think I ever encountered a good tank who made a big deal about ninja pulling.

[ComputerNerd]

Unless there is a good reason in a random group, don't.
Someone who is below your standards in a role you aren't playing should have not their experience dictated by you.
If you aren't the role of the tank, you have little reason to simply because you can't handle not being in control.

Talk to people before making the decision for them.

And we wonder why there are so many apparent noobs in dungeons, when they don't get the opportunity to actually play the game themselves.

[Alvito]

You give people too much credit. Monkey see, monkey do. Most people lack the ability to read the situation.

Raise the bar some. Sure bad players only look at how things effect them or just copy what they have seen with no understanding why. Say you have an 880+ tank doing their satchel heroic pulling each mob from one boss to the next. They wont die, but when the healer does that death is on the bad tank. Just one of the many ways people make thing far more challenging then they should be because they dont care what happens to others.

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If this keeps happening over and over again its probably because you are always going too slow and your DPS is tired of small pulls so they pull more. Usually if thres a recurring theme you should look at yourself rather then blame others.

Of course there is always the shit dps that is at the bottom of the charts below even the healer just walking into or pulling anything that moves.

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My policy--- If I can solo the pull, I never wait for anyone.

Which goes great until you can't and then the healer gets shit on when you die and they get all the aggro

[Deleted]

I call BULLSHIT on that. Even if you are a fast tank, someone will suddenly scream and run around, or suddenly more packs than actually needed.

^This

I usually pull quite quickly and even then there are people, that think, that only because I am fast, I want to tank another 4 Groups of mobs. I don't let them die, but I will tell them (if I am on a bit less geared tank than my main), that I pull the maximum of what I can handle with my gear and create good death-balls for the dps to cleave down. What I really hate tho are people, that have never been tanking in their life and pulling shit that requires some kind of treatment (or large groups that can easily be just skipped). Like ranger-type mobs that just stand there and shoot at the group. Resulting in people having to kill single mobs at a time, because some of those mobs will just ignore, where the tank wants to pull them and just throw shit at people in LoS of them (and good luck in getting PuGs to use LoS).

Its annoying and not required. I don't care, if you survive, if you let me pull, the run will go through smooth and you will always have a nice deathball you can cleave the shit out of. Simple as this.
Let the experienced tank do his job an you'll have a good time doing yours.

If the DPS that pulled knows what the fuck he/she's doing and pulls the mobs towards me, using ranged interupts or similar abilities to get the mobs to me - sure, go nuts. At that point I could have pulled those guys (and usually I already have) so no point in me running towards them. But those cases are ... rare. To say the least.

this is not tbc and tanks are no longer "masters"

entitled brat

Seems like you are the entitlied "brat" here. Nobody is anyones master but a tank is still the one that has most of the tools to position the mobs and make your job easier. If you run around, pulling shit, half of the mobs will just stand around, leaving the tank to have to clean up after you.
For most dps having a death-ball is better than having to kill single mobs. And Legions Dungeons are full of some kind of annoying ranged mobs, that are a pain to catch, when someone else pulled them.
The tank being the one who's pulling is not some kind of entitlement. It's his/her job and I am sure, that most of them aren't assholes.

But hey, I guess the hate for tanks is just a symptom of people hating authority. But that's just something I have observed over the years.

[Shoat]

When I'm in dungeons with friends and guildpeople, I encourage them to help me pull more stuff faster as long as they do it properly (use misdirection on me, or make sure to pull stuff into my AoE properly).

When I'm in dungeons with strangers... wait, that doesn't happen anymore, because I was sick of people being wiping us by pulling uncontrollably (when my AoE isn't ready to grab the mobs or they're far out of range or when incoming damage is too high for the healer or whatnot), especially since I'm the one getting blamed for it every time.
Occasionally you get good players in random groups who can read the situation and know when and how to pull stuff to the tank, but it doesn't take long to get sick of the other kind of player.

[Deleted]

here is how I deal with it in two words: guild. friendlist.

[Ozzyorcborne]

I let them die. Sure they bitch and moan, i ignore them. They're welcome to boot me and wait 30 minutes to get another tank.
I despise ninja pullers and "go go go". 9 times out of 10 im not in the mood for that shit so i leave group while theyre idiot pulling.

[tBattousai]

I honestly don't care if a DPS or healer end up pulling aditional mobs. I've been tanking since Cata and back then it used to bother me, since it's an unexpected thing to worry about, but today I just get aggro and move on.

If it ends up being a larger group than me+healer can handle, there's no use pointing names and being mad, I always tell the group to rez and start over, no biggie.

[Heladys]

Bad tanks will say "It bothers me".

Bad tanks will say "You pull you tank".

Bad players will find any excuse.

A half-average tank will simply gain aggro and continue as is.

I never had in my 12 years of tanking a DPS pulling before me and causing troubl to the group ever, hell most of the times that happens its a healer pulling cause i simply dont require any healing and they get bored or unless it was a friend trying to "troll me" cause he knows i will simply grab everything or some barraging hunter which i already expect and deal with it.

The only thing that bothers me is when people simply can not WASD properly.

And by WASD i mean walking around, i just went that path, if you simply run behind me, you cant fail, but you run down the middle you are obviously mentally incapable of WASD-ing properly and you pulled extra mobs.

Bad DPS need to point the finger to excuse their own badness.

[potis]

Bad DPS need to point the finger to excuse their own badness.

Someone cant read the post past 2 lines.

Adorable attempt.

[murbaez]

I don't believe myself to be a bad tank although i would say that i am slightly inexperienced to tanking current content. Every now and again when i do tank a heroic or mythic i occasionally get that one healer or dps that pulls ahead of me. I'm okay with that every now and again but if they continuously do it i just go ahead and pull a really huge pull. If we make it alive then we continue on like that until we wipe. If we wipe on the first one i just say that "they kept pulling ahead so i figured they could handle it."

[Amerissis]

As a healer, you will be on the bottom of my 'to heal' list, but if the tanks picks the mobs up and doesn't die fast, you will get healed. If the tank lets you handle it, but no one else is taking damage, you will get healed. If your pulling makes everyone take damage and things get hectic, you will die first, or just you.

As DPS I don't pull and if someone else does, I make sure not to dps those mobs until the tank takes them. I'm not dying because of some stupid dps.

You will end up on my ignore list regardless. It's the tank's job to pull and if you pull on purpose, I don't want to group with you again. If you think the tank goes too slow, you can just ask him to speed things up. You don't decide for yourself to pull more. It could be a new tank or low geared healer that go slow on purpose. Talk about it, don't just do your own thing.

[RyanEX]

if dps are pulling before you in dungeons it means you fail as tank as you go to slow and should speed up.

unless you are new to tanking state it at beginign of dungeon then nobody will pull simple as that.

do yourself a favour and in case of legion if you see in random hc people with +/- 1,7kk health go slow duh if you see 3 x dps with 2,5kk+ pull like crazy because they can aoe it down in few seconds by pulling slow and small packs you are lowering their dps significantly usually which means you fail as tank.

This advice...(points at advice)...this advice you ignore.

If a tank pulls slow it's because 1)he's new, 2)their not sure what the healer can handle, 3)their not sure what the dps can do or any combination of the three with the last being low priority.

If point 1) prepare to probably be kicked because the average dps need constant mobs to feed their ego about how great they are while the actual great dps don't bother with most dungeons outside of +6 or higher.

If point 2) go slow till you have the feel of the healer. Great gear does not necessarily mean a great healer despite what some would have you believe.

If point 3) be sure to link how you're doing more dps than them while they're dead. Also do so with more frequency when they live.

At the end of the day, you're a tank, you have a short queue. They want to bitch and moan let them eat repair bills till they kick you and you can re-queue.

[stomination]

again talk to the tank or run ahead and die if I or many other tanks are in your group,,, idc.

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tank's job is get aggro and control the mobs, other people pulling can interfere with that job or even cause the tank to fail at it.

Maybe years and years ago. Nowadays its so easy to get agro on things that Omen is almost useless.