Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[wombinator04]

Bump for the worst thread ever created!

The amount of Nostalrius threads on the official forums that get deleted everyday is hilarious. Soooo much anger are in those threads.

[Deficineiron]

Onde of the premisses of playing a legacy server is that you're playing a stale version of the game. To Play it, knowing what a given classe can And can't do for a given number of patches and then complain about it it's stupid to say the least. The vast manority of the croud playing on those servers know what to expect André are fine about it

odds and ends - IF we are talking about authentic legacy environment and not a frankenstein server

1) leveling, many players will take a very long time to hit 60. not everyone can play 6 hours a day despite this forum being an echo-chamber of folks who can/have.
2) progression - people act like everyone will kill KT in a few months. reality is most players who reach max may never kill KT. If mc/bwl is re-tuned appropriately vs. 1.12 talents/gear, even longer.
3) the 'argument' of people wanting to change classic stuff to improve it 'fix this blizz' is brought up by folks telling thread why blizz wont do it. I think people who actually want classic well know going in the door what they are getting. (the concern blizz may 'fix' it anyway is valid, though).

there will be some differences in how the servers 'work' vs live, though. One I suspect we would see if blizz released the authentic classic honor pvp/bg system is premade av honor farming via pve objectives, which is found on ps's on a scale/population far higher than it was retail (I am told). I personally think blizzard would make the pvp ranks cosmetic and make the honor gear available for honor if they end up doing a non-frankenstein job.

[voidillusion]

odds and ends - IF we are talking about authentic legacy environment and not a frankenstein server

1) leveling, many players will take a very long time to hit 60. not everyone can play 6 hours a day despite this forum being an echo-chamber of folks who can/have.
2) progression - people act like everyone will kill KT in a few months. reality is most players who reach max may never kill KT. If mc/bwl is re-tuned appropriately vs. 1.12 talents/gear, even longer.
3) the 'argument' of people wanting to change classic stuff to improve it 'fix this blizz' is brought up by folks telling thread why blizz wont do it. I think people who actually want classic well know going in the door what they are getting. (the concern blizz may 'fix' it anyway is valid, though).

Obviously, for example i started a druid and i don't have real expectations to be anything but a healer at max lvl because i know the other specs are not well accepted in Raids at 60, and i'm confortable with that. Creating a druid, reaching max lvl and asking blizzards, if they were official servers, to make x,y,z changes isn't really what this is about.

[zorkuus]

Classes were designed with group play in mind in vanilla. It was very common to see the reply "we don't balance classes for solo play" in the forums after ppl whined about 1V1 pvp during vanilla and TBC.

As I said it wasn't that simple. There were some specs, talents and abilities that weren't really useful in either solo or group play. This was a design oversight and not intended.

[Deficineiron]

Obviously, for example i started a druid and i don't have real expectations to be anything but a healer at max lvl because i know the other specs are not well accepted in Raids at 60, and i'm confortable with that. Creating a druid, reaching max lvl and asking blizzards, if they were official servers, to make x,y,z changes isn't really what this is about.

right my point is the folks who post that it would be a problem are the 'no legacy server' crowd in general. the folks who want this aren't saying 'i want legacy but fix ret blizz'

the question of whether blizz would see a need to 'fix' all this is a totally different (and valid) area of discussion. a fix here, a fix there, and a few more and one is on the slippery slope which eventually leads to the Frankenstein server scenario, especially if fixes include class buffs and pve nerfs. a few well-planned fixes could be very good, there are certainly areas with good arguments for them. Do any of us think that is the likely scenario to actually occur, though?

we are talking about Activision-blizzard here and looking at their current wow version it is hard to see how a legacy project doesn't have to get the stamp from the Ministry of Accessibility.

whatever it was in 2004, classic wow today is the antithesis of accessibility as defined by modern wow. I Have a hard time imagining us getting an official legacy game that isn't just classic map and linear quests based on original quests, with modern tuning, talents, etc. everyone can get timbermaw and wintersaber(not just ally anymore) exalted in an hour or two! everyone can kill cthun and KT in lfr! 45minute baron run? try 15 minute, and everyone finishes!

[voidillusion]

Offtopic: Yesterday i made "the walk" from Darnassus to IF, and right about when i was reaching IF's ramp that leads to the door something crossed my mind yet again, we waste so much nowadays with fly mounts and telerports and whatever, that i almost forgot how damn astonishing that climb is and almost breathtaking reaching the entrance. We really lost the sense of exploration and forgot these small details long time ago. And it's kinda sad really.

[Deleted]

As I said it wasn't that simple. There were some specs, talents and abilities that weren't really useful in either solo or group play. This was a design oversight and not intended.

Nobody is claiming vanilla was perfect. Though people were reasoning in terms of class and not specs back in the day.

[Deficineiron]

Offtopic: Yesterday i made "the walk" from Darnassus to IF, and right about when i was reaching IF's ramp that leads to the door something crossed my mind yet again, we waste so much nowadays with fly mounts and telerports and whatever, that i almost forgot how damn astonishing that climb is and almost breathtaking reaching the entrance. We really lost the sense of exploration and forgot these small details long time ago. And it's kinda sad really.

Don't worry, my frankenstein premise includes the assumption that blizz will have flight points everywhere they do today, and lots of teleport mechanisms too.

[Deficineiron]

so blizz introduce specs for just the sake of it or what?

The class system in vanilla was broken, and yes i mean class. Even that shit with hybrid/buff clases they dont think it through, 5 mins blessing for content that it supposed to be last several hours? Genius game design right here

5 min. blessings are an example of something I would expect blizz to be strongly tempted to review even in a non-frankenstein legacy release. that said, does making them longer effectively nerf raid encounters over 4.x minutes?

[Deficineiron]

i mentioned a pages ago, vanilla was a unfinished game that dont know what i wanted to be, one half was RP design/abilites, like for example paladins should be very effective against undead, the other half was number crunhing and munchkining to the max with stackign world buffs and if you want to raid/dungeon, you play the only spec that is viable for your class.



I rather have a progressive vanilla realm, meaning they fix this imbalance, but keep the "spirit" alive (aka there is a lot of RP stuff, with content tailored for it, the time you need to put to progress and so on) but rather ending on Naxx, content progress with the "vanilla" layout without introducing new landmasses* and release own content


but like i said earlier, the chance of this is happening is like minus 100 %



*bit side topic but i think introducing new land masses were a huge mistake (not only in wow), because the previous land is abonded. And the only real purpouse it realy serves is the leveling content, the endgame was and is always in instanced content, make the world feel dead imo

well the chance is certainly no lower than 0% so it is better than you suggest.

more seriously, I look at the scholomance 'revamp.' go from non-linear dungeon, lots of dead ends, backtracks (viewing room key), optional bosses (many tied to the ras frostwhisper long max-level questline), and more generally a long dungeon - and then look at the new version.

5 rooms, linear structure, done. talking skull follows you around and pretty much says ;go go go.;

Hard to see the talking skull linear scholo folks a blizz letting a classic server be itself.

[Deficineiron]

something i really liked about the old rp stuff, but doesnt getting mentioned because people are always blurting #naxx too hard for scrubs, was you could craft some blacksmith irons only in brd, or you need a mixture table for alchemy.


something that they actually picked up in legion which im glad for, but i wish they would take only one step farther, right now its everything creamed in your hub again

I had forgotten about the alchemy lab - this req. persisted in BC though they put the other one in lower city/shatt. decided not to bring up BRD (and stratholme) as other examples of over the top anti-linear dungeons. how about ally enchanting trainer??

as a point of discussion - would blizz allow an official legacy server to preserver

dark iron use only at anvil by incendius/brd
ally ench. trainer in uldaman
alch. lab in scholo (old scholo)
mat reqs for lvl 60 mounts for lock/pal + quests as only route to mount (e.g. cannot train it alone)
artisan prof trainers in remote places in general
wandering elites (long-path) (burning steppes, un goro, barrens, loch modan, EPL, where else?) not tickle-elites, but 1-2shot elites.
5-min blessings
weapon trainers only in 1 city per weapon (could make some class/race combos include early travel to another city)
hunter pet loyalty/happiness
hunter learning/training in pet abilities (e.g. get this other new pet to learn bite level 6 to teach to your main pet)
the gy-run penalty in classic form (some gy runs were a few minutes or more).

what else?

[Grofatso]

wandering elites (long-path) (burning steppes, un goro, barrens, loch modan, EPL, where else?) not tickle-elites, but 1-2shot elites.

First elite I ever met was a Son of Arugal in Silverpine Forest, back in my Vanilla days of (greater) noobiness. I may have died a bit.

Strangely I still miss those times. Suramar districts full of Elites really isn't the same thing.

[Granyala]

oooh .. I still remember getting ganked by that Fel reaver.
For his size he was a pretty sneaky bastard!

[wombinator04]

First elite I ever met was a Son of Arugal in Silverpine Forest, back in my Vanilla days of (greater) noobiness. I may have died a bit.

Strangely I still miss those times. Suramar districts full of Elites really isn't the same thing.

That one giant guy in Highmountain really reminded me of the old wandering elites. Soooo many people have died from his hands, lol.

Blizzard should have 1 of these in every zone.

[Deficineiron]

That one giant guy in Highmountain really reminded me of the old wandering elites. Soooo many people have died from his hands, lol.

Blizzard should have 1 of these in every zone.

they used to have some kind of long-path elite in most non-starter zones, even loch modan and barrens had them. the one in burning steppes disappeared pretty fast post- 2.3 iirc - wasn't even reduced to normal, just gone.. not long after I noted they were all gone or neutered in all zones..

it is a mystery to me how tyr's hand remained elite through wotlk. i dont recall if the scarlet courier + escort were neutered or still elite.

[Granyala]

i dont recall if the scarlet courier + escort were neutered or still elite.

I do think they were nonelites but since they were 5? mobs, even in a non elite state they were deadly to leveling characters. :X

[Grofatso]

oooh .. I still remember getting ganked by that Fel reaver.
For his size he was a pretty sneaky bastard!

I have a weird goosebumpy reaction to hearing the signature call of the Fel Reaver. I have been taught well.

[Deficineiron]

I do think they were nonelites but since they were 5? mobs, even in a non elite state they were deadly to leveling characters. :X

i want to say they had the knockback that the elites on strathholme scarlet bastion had too? (and SM iirc)

[Reachie10]

Remember the Benediction quest-line? Such an epic quest to get that weapon!

[Grofatso]

they used to have some kind of long-path elite in most non-starter zones, even loch modan and barrens had them. the one in burning steppes disappeared pretty fast post- 2.3 iirc - wasn't even reduced to normal, just gone.. not long after I noted they were all gone or neutered in all zones..

it is a mystery to me how tyr's hand remained elite through wotlk. i dont recall if the scarlet courier + escort were neutered or still elite.

Even Fozruk was reduced from elite to a normal mob with TBC. Unnecessary in my opinion, but maybe numbers state differently. I have no memory how hard it was to find a group to kill him in TBC. I believe all my toons had already passed beyond that point by then.

And this wasn't even a hostile elite. Necessary for a quest though, so maybe that did him in.