1. #2341
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    You're saying that Iceland, Britain, Ireland, and Finland have a significant number of unrecorded unsafe abortions? I'd love to see some numbers on that claim.
    I am saying that in places where abortion is restricted, you are not going to get ALL the numbers because they are not ALL recorded.

    I am saying that in places where abortion is not restricted, you are STILL not going to get ALL the numbers because they are not ALL recorded.

    There are women who abort without ever being recorded that they aborted.

    Do you actually think a woman can not abort without someone other then herself knowing she did?
    Last edited by Total Crica; 2016-12-28 at 12:23 AM.

  2. #2342
    Quote Originally Posted by Tota View Post
    I am saying that in places where abortion is restricted, you are not going to get ALL the numbers because they are not ALL recorded.

    I am saying that in places where abortion is not restricted, you are STILL not going to get ALL the numbers because they are not ALL recorded.
    So then you agree with me that postulating on the number of unrecorded unsafe abortions is useless, because there are unrecorded ones whether abortions are restricted or not.

    Yet you're the one who brought up unrecorded ones as an argument earlier...

  3. #2343
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    So then you agree with me that postulating on the number of unrecorded unsafe abortions is useless, because there are unrecorded ones whether abortions are restricted or not.

    Yet you're the one who brought up unrecorded ones as an argument earlier...
    I think it can not be verified that abortion numbers are higher if restricted since you can't verify how many abortions are actually being done.

    I think it can not be verified that abortion numbers are higher if not restricted since you can't verify how many abortions are actually being done.

  4. #2344
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    You're saying that Iceland, Britain, Ireland, and Finland have a significant number of unrecorded unsafe abortions? I'd love to see some numbers on that claim.



    Two things:
    First, yes Finland is third world (turns out Ireland is as well)
    Blue: first world
    Red: second world
    Green: third world


    Second, US ranks below those African, Middle-eastern, and South-American countries when comparing what?
    That's a cold war map.

  5. #2345
    Quote Originally Posted by Tota View Post
    I think it can not be verified that abortion numbers are higher if restricted since you can't verify how many abortions are actually being done.

    I think it can not be verified that abortion numbers are higher if not restricted since you can't verify how many abortions are actually being done.
    Bit of a tedious way of saying you agree with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    That's a cold war map.
    Correct. Do you have a point?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Are you on drugs?

    That map has nothing to do with anything.
    Linadra doubted that Finland is a third-world country. It is, as this map shows. It'd be good for you to know the topic of a conversation before commenting.

  6. #2346
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Bit of a tedious way of saying you agree with me.



    Correct. Do you have a point?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Linadra doubted that Finland is a third-world country. It is, as this map shows. It'd be good for you to know the topic of a conversation before commenting.
    That's not what that map shows at all. That map shows alliances during the cold war. Blue West, Red Soviet, Green neutral. The fuck, dude?

  7. #2347
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    That's not what that map shows at all. That map shows alliances during the cold war. Blue West, Red Soviet, Green neutral. The fuck, dude?
    That's where we get the term "third-world" from. If I remember correctly, USA (and allies) is first-world, Soviet (and allies) is second-world and everything else is third-world. He's not really arguing the issue, mostly semantics, but the map is tentatively related

  8. #2348
    Scarab Lord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I wonder how they'd react if their daughter/granddaughter was raped, became pregnant, and cried to daddy/grandpa that they didn't want to go through the struggle of pregnancy and labor for a child (that is not a child yet) they never wanted. All issues about choice aside (and I believe a woman has the right to choose assuming it's within a reasonable timeframe, certainly longer than 6 weeks), I highly doubt these same men would force their little girl to go through such a thing on principle.

    It's very easy to tell other people how you think they should live their lives when it has literally nothing to do with you and you generally look down on them entirely as a race/sex/whatever. This is nothing but ignorance and, unfortunately, the only solution is time. My generation (born late 80s, early 90s) is getting closer to the age where we'll be the ones running things, and I'm really hoping that's going to help. Most of this ridiculous shit you see is from older politicians stuck in their ultra-conservative beliefs, making decisions that potentially ruin the lives of thousands or even millions of Americans, based on outstanding logic of "I DISAGREE!!!"

    It's astounding to me that this is even a fucking issue. I don't understand how somebody's brain can work in a way that they think a woman's body can be fucking governed. This is a medical procedure and should be completely between a doctor and patient; if a doctor feels that, medically, it's too far along to terminate then that's one thing -- a politician that, quite frankly, knows jack shit should not be making medical decisions on a fucking state-wide or national scale. Imagine if an entire state outlawed childhood immunizations because the current political party in power didn't like them -- that would be fucking ridiculous. This isn't that different. Nobody is trying to slit the throat of a newborn here; a woman should have the right to decide entirely on her own if she wants to remove a tissue growth from her body before it develops further, a growth that is only as alive as the skin on your ear is "alive".

    Things inside your body are yours to control. You are the government, you are the president, you have your own bill of rights, your own moral code, your own standards. The government can dictate whatever the fuck they want out in the open world, but anybody thinking they have the right to say what can and cannot go on INSIDE YOUR BODY is fucking absurd.

    I don't even want to argue or debate about this; years ago I loved this kind of discussion, but lately I've realized how fucking ridiculous it is to even debate about. There is no genuine, thought-provoking, insightful retort; there's just hate, a total disconnection from the real world outside what's in your safe little local bubble, and a complete lack of empathy for (and desire to control) others and/or specifically women. Many of these people (and of course I know it's not all of them) are in the same group as those that pay women less to do the same work, that think deep down women enjoy being sexually harassed or that sexual harassment prevention itself is a ridiculous notion, and genuinely feel as if they are superior to women, even if only on a subconscious level.

    Anybody that genuinely, deep down inside, believes that a raped woman is obligated to carry a pregnancy to term has a screw loose... and it's just pointless to try to convince them otherwise. These people are set in their ways and it's easier just to wait for them to die, knowing that their legacy of bigotry and hate will hopefully be dying with them. Each generation that's born has fewer and fewer of these people in it, as there are more people opening their eyes and less passing down family traditions of hate. It's unfortunate that so many will have to suffer today while waiting for tomorrow, but have hope that one day people will look back at this and how ridiculous the entire thing was the way we look back at when women couldn't vote or own property. We'll get there!
    That's the issue with right-wingers, many scientists have tried to come up with a reason for their apparently lack of the full range of human emotions such as basic empathy. The last I heard they thought it had something to do with the amygdalae?

    Beyond that, when it comes to their willfully ignorant arguments on this particular issue you have two sides: sick fucks who get really happy and excited when they think of forcing young girls and women to carry the products of rape and incest to term, and hypocrites who don't even have a high school level education and think sperm are people too unless "circumstances" magically turn them back into sperm again.

    What can you really say to things who live in such a fantasy world?
    Last edited by Espe; 2016-12-28 at 08:38 PM.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

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