Are our World of Warcraft characters normal people in the Lore?

[Travace]

I want an expansion where al the mobs in the world are elite demi gods and we are some kind of legends (we already are anyway)

It's stupid that we are fighting bears and kobolds and dying to them. Makes no sense.

They are beneath us, they just are not beneath the quest givers. In normal peace times they might have the local trapper bring back a bear carcass that they can harvest the spleen from or whatever. But we usually show up in war time and in a hurry, so we go out and off a couple bears like they are nothing so we can get what we need from the quest giver and on with our lives. If the quest giver was left to do it they would probably die before they got one. But it's just another day in the life of a PC.

[SirCowdog]

So what you're saying is you'd rather be the side-kick/background story, rather than being the focus? Rather telling of your character, when you put it that way. Not to mention, they had to somehow explain that your character killed the greatest threat the world faced (at the time), the Lich King, who was pretty much a god from the perspective of a footman.

Edit: Hell ANY of the end raid bosses we have faced since VANILLA could be considered gods in the perspective of a footman. The difference between now and then is that you're recognized ingame for your achievements rather than continuing being joe nobody. Which is more immersion breaking: Killing a demi-god and nobody noticing or even caring even though they are the ones that told you to kill it, or actually getting recognition and fame among prominent lore characters for it? Personally its the prior.

Couple of things to measure player power levels:

The players are mentioned as heroes/champions that perform a surgical strike on the Black Temple in the book "Illidan", and gave him a hard enough time that Maiev was able to step in and finish him. Illidan was almost at the height of his power during that time. Illidan WAS distracted by his efforts in that book, but was basically at an almost godlike level of power.

We also were referred to by Arthas as "The most powerful fighting force Azeroth has ever known" during the intro of his Boss fight in WotLK. Individually led along by Arthas, according to his plan, into defeating as many of his lieutenants and underlings as possible in order to make us stronger. So there's plenty of evidence that we're strong as both a group, and as individual heroes.

In WoD we're referred to as the "Commander" of the Horde or Alliance's fighting forces on Draenor. So we've got official rank in the WoW universe military.

In Legion we're now leading our individual class order hall. Depending on the class, we're basically now the head of our entire order, on the same level as other leaders on Azeroth.

Not to mention weilding some of the most powerful weapons and equipment to ever exist. In some cases, like with Ashbringer or Doomhammer, they're iconic items from the beginning of the lore.



All this adds up to the player characters EASILY being on the same level as any faction leader. Thrall, Sylvanus, Varian, Tyrande, or even Khadgar. The idea that any of our characters can go back to being joe nobody, or a regular footsoldier, is ludicrous. Our characters playing second fiddle, or sidekick, to ANYONE is just stupid.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Couple of things to measure player power levels:

The players are mentioned as heroes/champions that perform a surgical strike on the Black Temple in the book "Illidan", and gave him a hard enough time that Maiev was able to step in and finish him. Illidan was almost at the height of his power during that time. Illidan WAS distracted by his efforts in that book, but was basically at an almost godlike level of power.

We also were referred to by Arthas as "The most powerful fighting force Azeroth has ever known" during the intro of his Boss fight in WotLK. Individually led along by Arthas, according to his plan, into defeating as many of his lieutenants and underlings as possible in order to make us stronger. So there's plenty of evidence that we're strong as both a group, and as individual heroes.

In WoD we're referred to as the "Commander" of the Horde or Alliance's fighting forces on Draenor. So we've got official rank in the WoW universe military.

In Legion we're now leading our individual class order hall. Depending on the class, we're basically now the head of our entire order, on the same level as other leaders on Azeroth.

Not to mention weilding some of the most powerful weapons and equipment to ever exist. In some cases, like with Ashbringer or Doomhammer, they're iconic items from the beginning of the lore.



All this adds up to the player characters EASILY being on the same level as any faction leader. Thrall, Sylvanus, Varian, Tyrande, or even Khadgar. The idea that any of our characters can go back to being joe nobody, or a regular footsoldier, is ludicrous. Our characters playing second fiddle, or sidekick, to ANYONE is just stupid.

Illidan was no where close to the height of his power at that fight he had part of his soul sucked out by the soul thingy and still hadn't recovered

[Taeldorian]

In my opinion, we should just've been the random 'jack' in the story. But through the expansions, we've become more and more. Champions, Heroes, commanders and now, High commanders..

This is the exact reason why I fell in love with Highmountain and the quests there.

We weren't known at all, they had absolutely no idea who we were. To them, we were just travelers/adventurers and that's what we were referred as. It was a great zone (aside from aesthetic kinda) that really made me feel like an adventurer helping random strangers in a random place because that's what I wanted to do.

It really was a good questing experience. One of the best I've had since the whole "heroes of Azeroth" mantra.

One of the good things about Legions storytelling is that they stepped away from the whole "your the only hero/player character in the raid, just you and the NPCs" which started in WoD. Khadgar even tells us to go get some of our strong friends (aka other player characters) to help find and kill Gul'daniel. It was definitely nice to see that as well.

[Zandalariprelate]

We are elite mercenaries. Like the A-Team or the Navy Seals if they were mercs.

Lorewise we are not the leaders of the Class Hall. Same thing with the heroes who defeated the big bads lore wise we cant all have done it so its always some mysterious heroes or champions.

No dude, the PC player did all those things, even in the beginning of the hall class questline where you get your artifact, the orden choose you to wield this weapons because of your deeds in the past, Darion, Maxwell, the monk leader, Remulus, etc all of them want you to lead them for killing some really bad guys

We were just random scrubs in prior expansions, starting in WOTLK and hitting hard in Cataclysm you're canonically some grand hero.

I personally loath it, but that's unfortunately the decision Blizzard took with the lore. Instead of having your characters accomplishments be defined by what you as a player have done, you're told by NPCs during low level quest zones that you were responsible for downing big bads and now have hero-characters fawning over you.

Back in Classic I enjoyed being the equivalent of the Warcraft 3 footman that regularly accompanied Arthas and would occasionally be interacted with, not a hero-character.

As for whether we all have demon-souls, God knows - certainly wasn't something implied until Legion - but they never tried explaining player rez gameplay necessities in-lore.

as for the dying part, i thought they explained that a looooooooong time ago but can't recall for sure nor how they did. personal reasons i've just viewed as i was being watched by the light and protected from true death.

The chronicles book explain why we are ressed by the healer spirit in azeroth, when Helya went rogue and lock up Odyn, some Valkyrs instead of join Odyn in the halls or go with Helya, they choose to help the others mortals races and helping some champions to bring them to the life again from the shadowlands.

[SirCowdog]

Illidan was no where close to the height of his power at that fight he had part of his soul sucked out by the soul thingy and still hadn't recovered

It was also quite early in the player characters' careers. Don't forget that the Illidan book also references the group of heroes defeating Illidan's council, and High Warlord Naj'entus, Supremus(although strangely no mention of Teron Gorefiend).

The point is giving a basis to estimate the player characters' power levels. Our characters are very VERY strong, even at such an early point in the history of WoW. Added to later achievements and titles, any one of our characters could very easily rival, or even overpower, any of the other major characters from the lore that isn't a raid boss from a current expansion.

The idea that something like a bear could even pose a threat is...quite frankly...ludicrous.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It was also quite early in the player characters' careers. Don't forget that the Illidan book also references the group of heroes defeating Illidan's council, and High Warlord Naj'entus, Supremus(although strangely no mention of Teron Gorefiend).

The point is giving a basis to estimate the player characters' power levels. Our characters are very VERY strong, even at such an early point in the history of WoW. Added to later achievements and titles, any one of our characters could very easily rival, or even overpower, any of the other major characters from the lore that isn't a raid boss from a current expansion.

The idea that something like a bear could even pose a threat is...quite frankly...ludicrous.

to be fair illidan was way stronger then all of them as he thought he could fight kil'jaden even back then the only reason we beat illidan is because he was weaked from the soul suck thing before hand and miev had her weakning spell.

[Nathreim]

What? Lore wise, the Class Hall leaders have titles like Archmage, Deathlord, Highlord etc so that they can be referred to in lore as such but not have specific player names attached to it. It is assumed that your DK for example is the Deathlord and has killed or helped kill Deathwing, the LK etc. The same applies to me. That's how all MMOs work with player characters in lore, your characters are the ones who count and all the other players are assumed to not exist. It requires some suspension of belief, while you may see 35 other Deathlords on your screen, you are the only one in existence in lore.

Thats not how WoW lore works we have specific characters in lore who killed the big bads. The Horde can never take credit for killing Deathwing or Illidan because the Alliance did it in canon. The Alliance cant take credit for Killing Rag2.0 or Cho'gal because the Horde did it in canon.

Thats not to say we have done nothing. Northrend and Pandaria were massive military operations that every able body soldier would have been a part of. Everyone would have had to deal with the Cataclysm in some way. But to be a part of every major boss battle is just impossible lorewise.

[SirCowdog]

Thats not how WoW lore works we have specific characters in lore who killed the big bads. The Horde can never take credit for killing Deathwing or Ilidan because the Alliance did it in canon. The Alliance cant take credit for Killing Rag2.0 or Cho'gal because the Horde did it in canon.

Its stupid to think that one man or woman could have been at every major battle in the last few years in lore.

Caverns of Time say otherwise. xD

EDIT: Actually, that brings up a good question: Are the Caverns canon? The bronze flight, even?

[Nathreim]

Caverns of Time say otherwise. xD

EDIT: Actually, that brings up a good question: Are the Caverns canon? The bronze flight, even?

They are canon but the timelines are not always our own and the Bronze Dragons erase all evidence of our presence. Only once has a timeline been altered by mortals and been allowed to exist that was when Rhonin and Co went back in time.

[SirCowdog]

They are canon but the timelines are not always our own and the Bronze Dragons erase all evidence of our presence. Only once has a timeline been altered by mortals and been allowed to exist that was when Rhonin and Co went back in time.

How does that fit in with what Garry did with the AU Draenor and the current situation with Legion?

[Nathreim]

How does that fit in with what Garry did with the AU Draenor and the current situation with Legion?

Alternate realities exist naturally. Garrosh using a shard of the Hourglass (magical item with time bending properties) helped bridge the dark portal to our reality instead of that realities AU Azeroth.

[cuafpr]

No dude, the PC player did all those things, even in the beginning of the hall class questline where you get your artifact, the orden choose you to wield this weapons because of your deeds in the past, Darion, Maxwell, the monk leader, Remulus, etc all of them want you to lead them for killing some really bad guys






The chronicles book explain why we are ressed by the healer spirit in azeroth, when Helya went rogue and lock up Odyn, some Valkyrs instead of join Odyn in the halls or go with Helya, they choose to help the others mortals races and helping some champions to bring them to the life again from the shadowlands.

oooh i love that book but didn't realize it was us XD thanks!!!

[Zandalariprelate]

oooh i love that book but didn't realize it was us XD thanks!!!

Really is a nice book which answer many question(some of them are very old like, why sargeras don't come to blow us) that are still posting here(people is very poor to buy it or they don't even read anything beside of the game)

[HitRefresh]

Back in vanilla sure. Now? No fucking way.

[Arachnofiend]

The progression from zero to hero for the PC is actually pretty well-balanced in WoW, I think. In vanilla you're a nobody picking up whatever jobs come up, in BC you're part of a large expedition of veterans of prior conflicts (by this point you're a veteran of a full-scale war with the A'qir as well as other noteworthy accomplishments), in Wrath you're selected again as a veteran soldier and prove yourself to be the Elite of the Elite in the Trial raid and eventually take part in defeating the Lich King.

By this point every major power figure in Azeroth should know your name, and that just so happens to include the Earthen Ring in Cataclysm. Your exploits against the enemy faction as well as the eventual defeat of Deathwing get you handpicked by Nazgrim (or Taylor if you're Alliance filth) to be part of his elite squadron to colonize Pandaria. Again, you prove yourself to be a hugely valuable asset to your faction through repeated successes in the region culminating in a successful revolt against Garrosh Hellscream (which, if you're Horde, you're a vital and irreplaceable figure in). You are rewarded for your excellence by being your faction's personal representative in Draenor, at which point you manage a successful campaign against the Iron Horde and eventually kill Archimonde.

Honestly, it would be unrealistic if we weren't recognized as the best of the best by Legion's beginning.

[Deleted]

As far as i'm concerned my monk is the biggest badass in all of wow.

[TITAN308]

Ive gone into detail before, but to keep it short:

WoW screwed up when we went from being a hero to the hero.

Its silly as shit when there are positions (Paladins for example) like Highlord, a one man position, and all of a sudden we are to suspend belief of the thousands running around.

[Vercigentorix]

Ive gone into detail before, but to keep it short:

WoW screwed up when we went from being a hero to the hero.

Its silly as shit when there are positions (Paladins for example) like Highlord, a one man position, and all of a sudden we are to suspend belief of the thousands running around.

While people may agree or disagree about us being THE hero was a good or bad direction to go in, it has always been the case in lore of MMORPGs that your character is the only one who counts per that class in the lore. It was inevitable that our characters would go from common foot soldier to a champion of our factions throughout the expansions. Sure, Blizzard could have given all the kills of the legendary big bads to NPCs but I think they wanted the PCs to feel connected to the events of the game. It works better in single player RPGS but the vast amount of people playing MMOs requires the suspension of belief.

[Vakna]

Not at all, we're like the prodigies of our chosen specialisation. The warriors for example get called "the most powerful mortal warrior on azeroth" during their class hall campaign.

- - - Updated - - -

Ive gone into detail before, but to keep it short:

WoW screwed up when we went from being a hero to the hero.

Its silly as shit when there are positions (Paladins for example) like Highlord, a one man position, and all of a sudden we are to suspend belief of the thousands running around.

Well you should suspend belief, if you truly let gameplay mechanics get in the way of lore then you've no hope discussing anything like this to begin with. I bet your next argument will be something along the lines of "lol how did 25 idiots in lfr beat deathwing lol".