Oh Baby, Talk to me About That Kaby + 1080TI come January

[Zenfoldor]

So here's my current rig:

1440p @ 144hz monitor, EVGA 980 TI Classified, Seasonic 750W PSU, 4790k @ 4.4ghz, 16gb(8x2) DDR3 @ 2133mhz, Corsair H110 AOI cooler, AsRock Extreme 6 mobo

I'm all about upgrading after CES, where the following hopefully will drop:

Kaby Lake 7700k + Nvidia GTX 1080TI

What I'm hearing, the Kaby i7 will have no performance increase per clock, but may overclock better and is clocked higher at stock.

The Kaby i7 has the same crappy glue around the die, and will potentially need to be delidded depending on how hot yours runs.

The 1080TI is more vague but I expect a hefty increase over the 1080 and in fact I think this gen may be the biggest upgrade gap between the consumer grade flagship and the TI version in recent memory.

I base this on some "leaked" rumors around the net that the number of cores is going to be significantly more than the base 1080.

Guestimate:

CUDA Cores 3584 3328 2560

That corresponds from left to right, to Titan X, 1080TI, 1080. If correct, this is barely cut down from the titanx pascals.

I expect the price at around $750, which will be a jump for the product line iirc. There are conflicting rumors so take with a grain of salt.

So what say you? Are you potentially upgrading in January?

Update:

Kaby was a flop, but the 1080TI is finally announced:

$699 MSRP
Allows industry partners to participate
35% faster than 1080
3584 cuda cores @1582mhz
11gb of GDDR5X

http://www.polygon.com/2017/3/1/1477...ia-gtx-1080-ti

On sale march 10th.

Based on the specs and the price, I think Nvidia is feeling the heat. Let's hope industry competition continues to improve. I think the new Vega will be good, but I still think 1080ti is looking like a monster.

Bump: Page 4

[Sorshen]

There's no reason to upgrade to Kaby Lake, unless you want 4.8-5GHz for... something.

[Evildeffy]

Here's what the 1080Ti will very likely look like... which is also a direct bitchslap in the face of Titan XP users.
(If Vega can deliver the horsepower we think/hope it can)

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-qu...ng-benchmarks/

The numbers above are the full fat P102 die on a Quadro card, never has a Quadro card NOT been equal to the Ti/Titan variants, whichever was the most powerful.
nVidia has pulled this stunt in the past with the original Titan and 780Ti when Titan users paid 1100 USD and 3 months down the line the 780Ti was released for 700 - 800 USD which was the full fat die of that same GPU and slaughtered the original Titan.

I'm pretty sure this generation will be exactly the same as otherwise a 1080Ti will only be a 5 - 8% upgrade at best if cut down and we don't even know what the price will be on those but if it turns out to be the same then it's a huge slap in the face and another dick move by nVidia.

Think about it ... "Oh here, have a ~15 - 20% performance increase over the Titan XP whilst costing 200 USD less than the Titan XP!" ... whilst the simpletons may believe that story but if we look under the hood we can see that it's complete bullshit.

[Droodid]

Honestly, kaby lake isn't really worth it if you're still on the 47XX chip. The cost to performance upgrade just doesn't make sense. As for the GPU, that all depends on what you're currently running. I have a 1080, so i highly doubt I upgrade, even with my Microcenter upgrade plan where I'll get full price back for my card. Unless the TI beats the XP, then no upgrades for a bit. Going from the 980 TI -> 1080 TI though makes a little more sense, but still probably isn't worth dropping $800 for.

[Zenfoldor]

Hmm, actually was thinking of making my old PC into a demo machine for oculus rift. May have to rethink that and save some money.

[Aluminum]

Why does everyone think the 1080ti will be better than Titan XP? It is pretty clear by now it won't be, the same core config perhaps, cheaper ofc.

Also kaby lake has completely identical IPC to skylake. No cpu instruction improvements whatsoever: zero debate about that.

The only two improvements are higher default clocks (which implies supposedly slightly higher overclock potential, yet early samples are very disappointing) along with an updated iGPU that nobody cares about except laptop OEMs that implement even more new DRM for crap like 4k netflix.

[Fascinate]

I dont think anyone thinks the 1080ti will be faster than titan, its never been that way in the past its just close for a lot less money.

[Evildeffy]

Why does everyone think the 1080ti will be better than Titan XP? It is pretty clear by now it won't be, the same core config perhaps, cheaper ofc.

Reading the article linked and knowing nVidia's past and present.
Founder's Edition tax anyone?

Random sidenote: Good God your name... could you at least have taken the right spelling? :P

- - - Updated - - -

I dont think anyone thinks the 1080ti will be faster than titan, its never been that way in the past its just close for a lot less money.

Wrong.
Original Titan and 780Ti, as mentioned SPECIFICALLY before but you again not reading it.

[Fascinate]

Reading the article linked and knowing nVidia's past and present.
Founder's Edition tax anyone?

Random sidenote: Good God your name... could you at least have taken the right spelling? :P

- - - Updated - - -


Wrong.
Original Titan and 780Ti, as mentioned SPECIFICALLY before but you again not reading it.

Well that really isnt true either, the titan black is the actual titan from that gen. Ever since then its been the same story, titan is the fastest single GPU and 80 ti is pretty close for a lot less money, i fully expect that is what the 1080ti will be also.

[Evildeffy]

Well that really isnt true either, the titan black is the actual titan from that gen. Ever since then its been the same story, titan is the fastest single GPU and 80 ti is pretty close for a lot less money, i fully expect that is what the 1080ti will be also.

Ah but it is true as there's a time differential between the launch of the 780Ti, which came BEFORE the black, was cheaper and faster whilst identical to the Titan.
Saying "Titan Black was the actual titan from that gen" is seriously disgusting really.

Allow me to educate you once more:
Original GeForce GTX Titan release date: February 19, 2013
GeForce GTX 780Ti release date: November 7, 2013
Original GeForce GTX Titan Black release date: February 18, 2014

Now moving on to another important part:
MSRP value of the Original GTX Titan: $ 999,-
MSRP value of the GTX 780 Ti: $ 699,-
MSRP value of the Original GTX Titan Black: $ 999,-

Of course nVidia had a massive backlash over this, you had a GTX Titan vs. 780Ti.
The 780Ti was the full fat die and the Titan the cut down one and was also clocked higher AND $ 300,- cheaper.
The only real difference was the excuse of "BUT 3GB MORE OF GDDR5 AND ENABLED DOUBLE PRECISION GUYZ!!!11oneoneone" (that last one could be modded to be fully enabled BTW since it was artificially limited).
This is why, another 4 months later, the Titan Black was introduced.

FYI:
The Ti counterparts have pretty much always been faster due to aftermarket coolers and higher sustainable clock speeds (as every vendor sold them), if left on reference it was faster but only just.

[Fascinate]

You could have just said oh right, i forgot about the black lol. Obviously waterblocks may be a different story, but for the most part titans have been the fastest GPU you can buy with the ti's nipping at the heels for a lot less money, and that is exactly what the 1080 ti is going to be.

[Evildeffy]

You could have just said oh right, i forgot about the black lol.

What? Did you even BOTHER to read? There's a YEAR difference in release dates... WTF?

Obviously waterblocks may be a different story, but for the most part titans have been the fastest GPU you can buy with the ti's nipping at the heels for a lot less money, and that is exactly what the 1080 ti is going to be.

The Quadro cards disagree with you, as has historically always been identical to the top end, being Titan or Ti card.
Seeing as how the Titan XP is already out that just leave the Ti.

[Fascinate]

I think you are kind of missing the point my dude, the og titan was clearly the exception to the rule, ever since its been titan for crazy amounts of money and the TI comes out later for 500 bucks less and only 5-10% slower.

There is no way the 1080ti is going to be faster than the titan xp, id put money on it with someone if they wanted to fare a wager.

[Evildeffy]

I think you are kind of missing the point my dude, the og titan was clearly the exception to the rule, ever since its been titan for crazy amounts of money and the TI comes out later for 500 bucks less and only 5-10% slower.

You're clearly on drugs.. You're changing story every time.
Whatever... the Ti was never 5-10% slower it was mostly between a -3% to +5% actually due to the whole higher clock speeds etc.

There is no way the 1080ti is going to be faster than the titan xp, id put money on it with someone if they wanted to fare a wager.

History check:
780Ti > GTX Titan (straight up between 15 - 20% for 300 USD cheaper)
780Ti > GTX Titan Black (aftermarket design and cooling, Titans were not allowed with this where the Ti cards are) and even if 100% reference then it's equal AT WORST.
980Ti > Titan X (no more GTX moniker) due to aftermarket cooling and own PCB designs, even the reference designs were generally slightly faster due to higher clock boost and lower temps. (barring some weird 6 vs. 12GB games where that acted funky)

Those are the only 2,5 Titans releases... so far your theory is already incorrect.
But who knows, this might be the first year it becomes true... I highly doubt it though since the Titan XP is held back by it's own cooler/design and no aftermarket ones.

[Fascinate]

Out of the box the titan black was faster than 780ti, out of the box the titan x was faster than the 980 ti. My main point here is that no one EXPECTS the 1080ti to be faster than the 1200 dollar titan xp out of the box. Its probably going to be close, but its going to be a slightly cut down version with higher clocks for a lot less money, not sure how you could argue that point lol.

And another thing you keep bringing up is cooling, you do realize a titan xp with a water block will be faster than a 1080 ti with a water block right? The way you talk is that waterblocks only exist for the ti cards.

[Evildeffy]

Out of the box the titan black was faster than 780ti, out of the box the titan x was faster than the 980 ti.

But you're actually wrong on those fronts which is my point of what you're trying to say:
On reference designs alone the Titan Black vs. 780Ti had a higher boost clock, making it faster until compute tasks were required due to DP, and cutting compute performance to 1/24th of what it could be, artificially.
Out of the box the Titan X was not faster than the 980Ti because of exactly the same reasons and that the power draw and temps were lower on the Titan X than 980Ti, reference design.

My main point here is that no one EXPECTS the 1080ti to be faster than the 1200 dollar titan xp out of the box. Its probably going to be close, but its going to be a slightly cut down version with higher clocks for a lot less money, not sure how you could argue that point lol.

Or not slower at all.. or are you expecting another Titan XP Black, because I certainly am considering the data.
The point here is that if we look at nVidia's history and present, again I mention "Founder's Edition tax" and their ... MSRPs, it being only 5 - 10% faster (being generous here) than a 1080 will not be worth the 1080Ti moniker.
And considering the current price schemes it COULD potentially be cheaper but it wouldn't be far off, remember that FE Tax and MSRPs I mentioned earlier?

And another thing you keep bringing up is cooling, you do realize a titan xp with a water block will be faster than a 1080 ti with a water block right? The way you talk is that waterblocks only exist for the ti cards.

Considering that this generation's limitations are placed upon the cards by it's engineers in terms of Voltage and Power Delivery this will never happen.
Titan XP with a water block is still limited by it's imposed hardware spec limitations where the Ti (just for the sake of this argument I will assume that the 1080Ti has identical specs to the TXP) is not because of the fact that the 1080Ti cards are aftermarket designed and they ALSO get their Water Blocks from EK or w/e company you prefer.
Allowing them to fiddle more with Voltages and Power distribution meaning that that same waterblock can go further because the design is more efficient than the reference design Titan XPs, which will never see aftermarket designs unless nVidia drastically alters their policies and I don't see that happening.

The GP102 core is tied to certain specs and only a few things are variable.
But if you compare the Titan X vs. the Quadro P6000 then you have the exact same card with 24GB of RAM and a full fat die.
Quadro, card not meant for gaming nor marketed by nVidia to game also never receiving proper game drivers is beating the Titan XP by 10 - 20%.

My theory, due to nVidia's past and present practices, is that the 1080Ti will have the full fat die like the Quadro P6000, more than the Titan XP and a Titan XP Black may be released (if that happens and if you call that card the real Titan XP I swear I'ma hurt you in some way -.-) because it's the most profitable thing for them to do and as we've seen they have no shame in ripping you off.

However stating things as fact, again, is foolish and honestly you should've learned by now not to when you don't know anything yet.

[Fascinate]

Go look at the benchmarks my dude titan black and the titan x were faster than the ti counterparts, and when you put waterclocks on each the difference was even larger in favor of the titans.

You are making a whole lot out of nothing here, titans have always represented terrible value but they ARE the fastest single GPU cards on the market and have been for quite a while. Most people who own titans have them under water, and those are the people with benchmark records....not people with 980ti's with waterblocks.

I dont even know what you are saying with your theory tbh lol, 1080ti is just going to be a cut down GP102 with possibly higher clocks putting it very close to titan xp performance out of the box. Put these cards both under water tho, and the titan xp's are still going to be the record holding cards.

[Evildeffy]

Go look at the benchmarks my dude titan black and the titan x were faster than the ti counterparts, and when you put waterclocks on each the difference was even larger in favor of the titans.

I did and I must be seeing different reviews to you then, also again Titan Black was not the real Titan .. it was added later because of QQ.

You are making a whole lot out of nothing here, titans have always represented terrible value but they ARE the fastest single GPU cards on the market and have been for quite a while. Most people who own titans have them under water, and those are the people with benchmark records....not people with 980ti's with waterblocks.

I'm willing to bet that I know more people personally in my little corner of the world that is the Netherlands that I've equipped or know with the Titans that only a fraction of those owners have water cooling.
Though that is anecdotal to be fair but I'm assuming that the difference around the globe isn't there.
My point to you was whilst on paper they might've had the best specs in the Titan X generation, since the GTX Titan did NOT and the Black is NOT the true version, in practice they were almost always identical to better with a very few exceptions of some weird memory shenanigans, there's no telling what nVidia will do as to specs.
We can only theorize about it but what we CAN extrapolate is nVidia's past and current behaviour and base it around that.

I dont even know what you are saying with your theory tbh lol, 1080ti is just going to be a cut down GP102 with possibly higher clocks putting it very close to titan xp performance out of the box. Put these cards both under water tho, and the titan xp's are still going to be the record holding cards.

You're doing it again, presenting opinion as fact... stop it already.
If you're looking at record holding cards, it's generally not even the higher end ones because of complexity.

[Fascinate]

Its not opinion tho lol, what else would the 1080ti be other than a cut down GP 102? And all the benchmark sites have the titanx above the 980ti, even if its only a few %. If you go on a site like overclock.net most people on there who own titans also have them with waterblocks, and people on that site are the majority of people who own titans they are called enthusiasts. But i think the point is more that you aren't aware that titans are the faster cards overall given the same cooling for each. Go look at benchmark results for all the various programs, its always titans at the top not the TI cards.

[Evildeffy]

Its not opinion tho lol, what else would the 1080ti be other than a cut down GP 102?

Ok then... show me that crystal ball that is feeding you the information beforehand that we mere mortals do not know about.
Do you understand what the definition of a fact is and why in tech you should never present opinions as fact?

And all the benchmark sites have the titanx above the 980ti, even if its only a few %. If you go on a site like overclock.net most people on there who own titans also have them with waterblocks, and people on that site are the majority of people who own titans they are called enthusiasts. But i think the point is more that you aren't aware that titans are the faster cards overall given the same cooling for each. Go look at benchmark results for all the various programs, its always titans at the top not the TI cards.

Funny how my personal experiences with the quite a large number of people whom own the original GTX Titan, Titan Xs because I built/supplied it for them don't actually use watercooling vs. the amount on a website that gather specifically for that reason... HMMMMM I wonder if that's a coincidence.
Enthusiasts come in many shapes and sizes and they are certainly NOT bound by liquid cooling.

That said .. Find me a Titan X (Maxwell) on water clocked higher/being faster than f.ex. a GigaByte GTX 980Ti G1 Gaming Edition on water.
I'm giving you an advantage here since I'm leaving out the GTX Titan and 780Ti due to aforementioned unfairness in 780Ti beating the snot out of the GTX Titan.
Let's see who wins that battle, I can guarantee you it won't be the Titan because water blocks exist for the GigaByte card too... Shocker!

Regardless the discussion is pointless

If you BELIEVE the 1080Ti will have less specs then state as such and not a fact.
I will reverse the situation for you to understand how stupid it sounds in a way you'll understand.

Here goes:
"AMD's Vega will completely CRUSH the Titan XP and will also beat the 1080Ti! I know it WILL be because what else can it be right?! It's a competitor to nVidia!"

Do you see how dumb that sounds or not? Do you understand why your opinions spouted as fact is loathed by any true techie present?