Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[Stormspark]

I strongly disagree. I feel more free to do what I want, when I want, with Legion than I ever have in WOW before. Yes, there's grinding for stuff if you want to do it. You don't have to.

[KaPe]

Its almost like wow players have a choice as to whether they want to be in a mythic raiding guild or not and feeling obligated to have their artifact power grinded on a daily basis. Almost..

It's almost like you didn't need to do nearly as much to play on mythic level in the last few expansions. Especially after finishing the current content, you could easily have your single farm run each week and be done with it. No need for grinding dungeons or dailies, hoping for legendary to drop or farm more AP in preparation for next tier.

It's almost like you made a strawman here... well no, not "almost" - it's exactly what you did.

[dproject]

why people keep complaining about this game being grindy? this is MMORPG dude. If you don't like this kind of game, play other genre. WoW has been grindy since vanilla and people loved it, so what is the problem? When they took out the grinding system in previous expansion, that's when WoW hit the lowest subscriber number in the history.

[Teri]

Just change raiding to 1 size (15 man?) 1 lockout again, increase the base itemlevel or add more base sockets, and no titanforge or 3rd stats RNG. Make raiding straightforward again, keep the 3 difficulty.

Guaranteed 1-2 loot per person, no trading (no split farms). 1 raid clear a week, with very little RNG.

Leave the grind to Mythic+.

I do agree generally AK research was too slow and too drastic going from 0 to 250x multiplier was just silly.

Legendaries just added insult to injury as being mandatory for having way too big of an impact.

[dproject]

Just change raiding to 1 size (15 man?) 1 lockout again, increase the base itemlevel or add more base sockets, and no titanforge or 3rd stats RNG. Make raiding straightforward again, keep the 3 difficulty. >> Raiding size is fine as it is

Guaranteed 1-2 loot per person, no trading (no split farms). 1 raid clear a week, with very little RNG. >> then people will get burn out quicker when they get loots faster

Leave the grind to Mythic+. >> many people love grinding, so nope

I do agree generally AK research was too slow and too drastic going from 0 to 250x multiplier was just silly. >> i agree with this one, AK is a bit too OP

Legendaries just added insult to injury as being mandatory for having way too big of an impact. >> legendary should be one type per expansion, just like it used to be, and it should be reallyyyy hard to get. maybe only 2-3 players per realm will get it at the end of expansion.

[Teri]

I just said 15 to compensate for the flex raid crowd losing their flex, could be 20 for all I care.

Also just tossing some random numbers on loot, once again, to compensate for no loot trading with 1 clear a week.

[Berndorf]

It's almost like you didn't need to do nearly as much to play on mythic level in the last few expansions. Especially after finishing the current content, you could easily have your single farm run each week and be done with it. No need for grinding dungeons or dailies, hoping for legendary to drop or farm more AP in preparation for next tier.

It's almost like you made a strawman here... well no, not "almost" - it's exactly what you did.

Its almost like I give a damn one way or the other, but not quite..

[Hubbl3]

Only MTs needed those cloaks during progression. And on farm it was easy to provide everyone with one as several scales were gained from each ony kill. Although not needed as well. In our guild everyone had it and it wasn't a problem at all.

IDK, I remember Nef inflicting Shadowbreath on everyone, killing everyone without a cloak.

They weren't really required at all though; for Firemaw you line of sighted the boss during breath and for Nefarian himself you could line of sight it by just heading into the little tunnel that (in general) was used for mages during Wild Polymorph class calls.

Huh... learning something new every day.

[Elim Garak]

IDK, I remember Nef inflicting Shadowbreath on everyone, killing everyone without a cloak.

People without cloaks could hide behind the throne.

[Deleted]

It's not a grind. At least there's some variation to it. One benefit of the emissary quests is that if your goal is to grab as much AP as possible, you do the quests that are offering AP. Same for resources. At least it's not exactly the same quest every time. Even rep for Broken Isles factions hasn't been an issue. I'm exalted with all of them just through questing and choosing rep tokens for the ones that were behind.

A grind in my eyes is having to kill the same group of Boars for an hour to get to the next level because you've run out of anything to do in the area - a problem I associate with Vanilla WoW. In Legion once you're i850 +, the amount of upgrades naturally lowers and it becomes more a pursuit to find your best in slot and upgrade lower ilvl items. I can see why you'd compare that to a grind but the reality is it couldn't be further from a grind. It is simply you getting less instant gratification than before.

If Blizzard give an inch then the players will always try to take a mile, which is why they have to gate certain things behind quest chains or research. If things like AP were easier (account wide for example), people would still complain that other players are better than them etc. etc.

[haxartus]

Here is another "grindy" example, hope I remember it correctly: The Netherwing rewarded a drake at the end (exhalted). There were 7 drakes. So to get them all (cosmetic, I know), you had to buy flying on 7 chars and grind them all to exhalted. Today I am annoyed that the Class hall shoulders (again, cosmetic) requires exhalted with Nightfallen.

Actually, you could buy all of them from a vendor after getting exalted.

[chronia]

Actually, you could buy all of them from a vendor after getting exalted.

I do think this was only implemented in a later patch, as one of the early grinders i had only one for quite a long time, then after some point i was able to buy them all.

Atleast with the MoP CM mounts i had a bit of a deja vu feeling when choosing as it felt to me the same as choosing my drake. And then later on the MoP Mounts also became account wide and buyable if you had one.

[Elim Garak]

Here is another "grindy" example, hope I remember it correctly: The Netherwing rewarded a drake at the end (exhalted). There were 7 drakes. So to get them all (cosmetic, I know), you had to buy flying on 7 chars and grind them all to exhalted.

Whatever for? Mounts weren't account wide back then. You chose the one you liked and then later could buy the rest.

Some people already have 5 alts in 860+ gear and others quit because this x-pac is so alt unfriendly. That is just how it is.

Getting gear is not a problem. It's AK/AP and time gated Class/Story Quests that makes legion alt unfriendly.

[Deleted]

What did you expect from this thread OP? The majority of the people here sacrifice 60-100 hours each week playing the game, going on the hamster wheel, sacrificing health, their unemployment benefits and the patience of mom & dad trying to get them out of the basement.
It's simple confirmation bias. The cost of acknowledging the heavy, repetitive Legion grind is too high for them.

[willemh]

Even if you wouldn't do any mythic+ but would just clear raid finder+normal+heroic+some mythic raid bosses and do some world quests+class hall quests each week you can easily get 35 traits before nighthold opens.

[Deleted]

People without cloaks could hide behind the throne.

Or in the caves where the adds spawn at the start, that also worked perfectly.

[Granyala]

The majority of the people here sacrifice 60-100 hours each week playing the game.

Wat?
Even in my raiding days I rarely got past 15-20.
Raid 9hrs/week + a bit of daily herp a derp + lots of chatting while standing around doing jack shit (or hopping in circles through Shatt/Dal/SW/Shrine/Garrison).
Freshly released expansions excluded but that only lasts 2-3 weeks every 2 years.

[Elim Garak]

Even if you wouldn't do any mythic+ but would just clear raid finder+normal+heroic+some mythic raid bosses and do some world quests+class hall quests each week you can easily get 35 traits before nighthold opens.

Only if you play since launch

[willemh]

Only if you play since launch

yes, if you start playing late, AND don't want to use all catch-up mechanics available in the game to catch up, then yes, you will be behind. What else do you expect? How can you make catching up even easier without invalidating the effort people put into their character and making any form of character progression meaningless?

[Granyala]

Even if you wouldn't do any mythic+ but would just clear raid finder+normal+heroic+some mythic raid bosses and do some world quests+class hall quests each week you can easily get 35 traits before nighthold opens.

Didn't clear RF, didn't do any M+ AND, bad casual as I am, I have been heavily slacking on the Emissary front ever since I hit exalted.
Currently sitting at 32. Yeah. Wouldn't take much to get them levels till Nighthold.