Level Scaling should be OPTIONAL in the future

[Dietrik]

Then add restrictions like CDs. WoW never even needed scaling now apparently the option to remove it is suddenly an issue

I disagree with "need", i think if previous expansions had scaling at level, the experience would have been better.

I am fine with Wrath zones scaling up to 80 then stopping, Mop 90 etc... But i think scaling has done great things for the time out in the world.

There were plenty of forum posts complaining that there is only 1 max level zone in previous xpacs, which forced them at the time to have pockets of max level mobs in lower level zones like in WoD... that was bad, i think scaling has been one of the best things to come along with Legion.

I am raid geared so most of the zones are trivial now anyway but mobs are not meaningless, can't run through suramar city naked and one shot everything... but i can't die if i don't.

[Alvito]

Then add restrictions like CDs. WoW never even needed scaling now apparently the option to remove it is suddenly an issue

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It's optional though that's my point! I can timewalk or solo

You can solo content that isn't the same and is as much as 10 years old.

[Dadwen]

IMO all level scaling is, is a tool for lazy developers and designers so they don't have to make sufficient content at the correct level.

if I don't feel more powerful that I did 10 levels ago the crap is just pointless......

[Teri]

Scaling is fine, it's not like the ENTIRE world is 110, and it shouldn't be either, scaling should be added to more areas but limited to brackets.

Without scaling you'd be back to the daily quest hub in the max level zone, so in legion's case it would likely be a billion daily quests in suramar only.

I much prefer the world quest system over a daily quest camp.

Going forward if level cap gets to 120 at some point, legion should just stay at 110.

I would love to see each expansion scale within it's brackets, legacy buff pretty much makes you do a billion damage to anything pre-MoP right now anyway, and MoP health got nerfed super hard via the stat squish regardless.

[Deleted]

I disagree with "need", i think if previous expansions had scaling at level, the experience would have been better.

I am fine with Wrath zones scaling up to 80 then stopping, Mop 90 etc... But i think scaling has done great things for the time out in the world.

There were plenty of forum posts complaining that there is only 1 max level zone in previous xpacs, which forced them at the time to have pockets of max level mobs in lower level zones like in WoD... that was bad, i think scaling has been one of the best things to come along with Legion.

I am raid geared so most of the zones are trivial now anyway but mobs are not meaningless, can't run through suramar city naked and one shot everything... but i can't die if i don't.

I would be happy with brackets but it seems a % want it to be 110 everywhere

[Dietrik]

IMO all level scaling is, is a tool for lazy developers and designers so they don't have to make sufficient content at the correct level.

if I don't feel more powerful that I did 10 levels ago the crap is just pointless......

So that's two different arguments... Should class power come from levelling or gearing at max level. I think the latter so i am happy with the current state.

That's where the shift has come, shifted the power gain more to just max level. For the people who aren't into levelling and want the end game content i think we have the perfect model. For the players of RPG's i think thats where the system has let people down because they expect the power gain to come from the number on their character sheet.

You can get the same effect from clearing EN Mythic a few times but i see your issue, sorry i don't have a solution for that and to be honest don't want one because i like the scaling.

[Banard]

Now I know automated level sharing has mixed opinions and I understand the way Legion is that automated level scaling is needed BUT I hope if Blizzard insists on using this technology in future expansions they make it optional like in Witcher III. The reason why i'm not a huge fan is because I enjoy returning to old content to solo dungeons and raids or even to just experience the story from another factions pov rapidly (e.g. i'm currently going through previous expansions as Alliance and enjoy zerging through the mobs. Another reason is RP, in Legion for example we're limited on RP locations due to mobs and aggro. I also miss the variety of having zones by level. In Vanilla, WotLK and Cataclysm we would occasionally have the choice of 2 or 3 zones of our level thus opening a new levelling route for alts. In theory Legion let's us choose which zones but it ultimately still feels linear due to us needing to visit every zone regardless.

Obviously if Blizzard continue with WQs then they need to scale but I do feel beyond that it should be completely optional

no leveling needs to be removed from the game. It is a old fashion way of progression your toon.

The whole of azeroth should be redone with level scaling. Every zone being end zones...every zone with wqs. Multiple zones with surmar type story arc quest about the "dark armies arise".

[Dadwen]

So that's two different arguments... Should class power come from levelling or gearing at max level. I think the latter so i am happy with the current state.

That's where the shift has come, shifted the power gain more to just max level. For the people who aren't into levelling and want the end game content i think we have the perfect model. For the players of RPG's i think thats where the system has let people down because they expect the power gain to come from the number on their character sheet.

You can get the same effect from clearing EN Mythic a few times but i see your issue, sorry i don't have a solution for that and to be honest don't want one because i like the scaling.

power should come from both, leveling and gear not just one, and switching it to just gear based is a stupid idea, you're suppose to have more experience (hence XP) so you know how to deal and fight better. I have no problem with it being optional, but forced scaling is garage and just a sign of lazy designers.

[Deleted]

no leveling needs to be removed from the game. It is a old fashion way of progression your toon.

The whole of azeroth should be redone with level scaling. Every zone being end zones...every zone with wqs. Multiple zones with surmar type story arc quest about the "dark armies arise".

You're aware such work would result in a huge content draught, delayed expansion and most likely cut content of importance

[TheVaryag]

Cool blog post bro

Cool contribution to the post, bro.

Anyway, lets not feed the trolls anymore.



And I totally agree Adam, the scaling should be optional. Not only did It make the story nonsensical and not follow a linear path... It just didn't connect. The story should've been told like this In Legion: Aszuna-Val'sharah-Highmountain-Stormheim... like that. if you go backwards, like I did it won't make sense...

They changed their mind half-way through Legion's development and gave us this scaling, which while a fun idea, should be optional definitely. Choice blizzard... give us choices, don't decide which Is better, A or B let US decide.

And If they decide to make scaling In past content... please don't. Why? Look how It's hurt Star Wars: The Old Republic, whilst a bad game, heavily Inferior In content delivery especially In the last two expansions, had a good leveling experience, very vanila-like.. It was tough, hard, there was group content and It was star wars, so It worked... until they made everything scale... now If I got to Tatooine, after becoming a big, scary Darth. A Lord of the sith, and representation of death Itself..... I get hit by a tusken raider 3 times and die... wtf? It also doesn't help RPing events, It basically killed large scale, or any scale RPing events outside of the usual RPing hubs. Going outside to RP means you have to be In full gear to even survive being agroed by.... a wamp rat... jesus.. why.

That Is NOT what you want people to experience In WoW, and I hope Blizzard will keep understanding that scaling will not work for the past content, and definitely not for future unless optional at the very least.

And about World Quests... to me, we should've still just had Daily Hubs Instead. At least you can pre-plan those and be done In 30 minutes or so.... this time around, you have to go around ALL of the zones, to do every, single, little, world quest... which from 30-60 minutes of being In a daily hub, turns Into 2-6 hours, depending on the World Quest spawn rate and their rewards, It all turns Into a much more bigger grindfest for very few rewards... not to mention how reliant you are on AP to keep up with your fellow PvPers or Raiders... once you connect all of these features Legion gave up, you can see they're not optional. not one of them. Unless you want to fall behind... and PvPers and Raiders won't want that. So legion Is quite bad so far, and scaling won't help.

[Dietrik]

power should come from both, leveling and gear not just one, and switching it to just gear based is a stupid idea, you're suppose to have more experience (hence XP) so you know how to deal and fight better. I have no problem with it being optional, but forced scaling is garage and just a sign of lazy designers.

From my point of view great designers.

Scaling was a great experience to level with, i slept through the xpac release for the first time ever and joined a few hours late. One of my friends had started on Val'sharah, and was 101 half way to 102 when i started at 100... Stopped and we grouped up and levelled through highmountain at the same rate.

That experience in previous expansions would have been different and we would either have not been able to level together or they would have got less xp relative to me. IMO win for scaling.

Fast forward to today, I have 4 max level toons not interested in a 5th until they add something in to make it faster. All of the zones are still relevant, i am not stuck in Suramar doing a couple of dailies each day, i get sent around the Broken isles, now that i am well into the 34+ levels on my 2 raiding toons i just do emissaries every few days. IMO win for scaling.

I am raid geared so the zones are mostly trivial but i can't one shot everything and i am fine with that.

[God Save The King]

I'd say scaling ought to exist in all zones across the entire game. I suppose there could be a vendor you pay 10g to to turn it off (like the locking exp guy). But the inability to level with friends is pretty obnoxious. Like, either they level alone or need to restrict themselves to when I am also available.

It'd be nice if they expanded on the system so you could pick up quests mid-zone. Like if I'm 22 and partially through redridge and my friend is 73 and chilling in Dragonblight? He can swing down and start leveling with me instead of needed a new zone.

The only thing I'd restrict is some of the expansion content. Classic/TBC/MoP/WoD can be done 1-100, WoTLK/Cata can be done 60-100, and then the current expansion's content is 100-110.

[Deleted]

Nope, i want this scaling on the entire of WoW, including dungeons and raids. i want to follow the storylines and do the quests in different zones between alts so i don't get bored, not follow the exact same cookiecutter route.

[Dadwen]

From my point of view great designers.

Scaling was a great experience to level with, i slept through the xpac release for the first time ever and joined a few hours late. One of my friends had started on Val'sharah, and was 101 half way to 102 when i started at 100... Stopped and we grouped up and levelled through highmountain at the same rate.

That experience in previous expansions would have been different and we would either have not been able to level together or they would have got less xp relative to me. IMO win for scaling.

Fast forward to today, I have 4 max level toons not interested in a 5th until they add something in to make it faster. All of the zones are still relevant, i am not stuck in Suramar doing a couple of dailies each day, i get sent around the Broken isles, now that i am well into the 34+ levels on my 2 raiding toons i just do emissaries every few days. IMO win for scaling.

I am raid geared so the zones are mostly trivial but i can't one shot everything and i am fine with that.

If it was great game design it would be optional, this is just lazy, so instead of following the story as a few above noticed you can pick the easiest pack of mobs due to mechanics or path design or whatever and just farm them till now till max and that is just moronic (which kinda makes optional a stupid idea too). after I master killing boars for 5 level, thinking those same boars would still put up a hard fight after I went to distance lands and killed demons it stupid on a scale I can't even fathom. (scaling just means the Dev's have to make less content and it a $$ saver and a lazy design and that's all there is too it)

[Dietrik]

And about World Quests... to me, we should've still just had Daily Hubs Instead. At least you can pre-plan those and be done In 30 minutes or so.... this time around, you have to go around ALL of the zones, to do every, single, little, world quest... which from 30-60 minutes of being In a daily hub, turns Into 2-6 hours, depending on the World Quest spawn rate and their rewards, It all turns Into a much more bigger grindfest for very few rewards... not to mention how reliant you are on AP to keep up with your fellow PvPers or Raiders... once you connect all of these features Legion gave up, you can see they're not optional. not one of them. Unless you want to fall behind... and PvPers and Raiders won't want that. So legion Is quite bad so far, and scaling won't help.

It takes less than an hour to do it on 3 toons, my one request would be the World Quest Group Finder addon just be baked into the game with an option to turn it on and off. And preserve the group you were in before it added people.

That was a feature in Rift back in the day an was wonderful for speeding up group content.

It does add a bit of anonymity into the world because i have no idea nor care who is coming or going from my group, but i raid for the human connection that addon takes the time for world quests down by more than half.

If it was great game design it would be optional, this is just lazy, so instead of following the story as a few above noticed you can pick the easiest pack of mobs due to mechanics or path design or whatever and just farm them till now till max and that is just moronic (which kinda makes optional a stupid idea too). after I master killing boars for 5 level, thinking those same boars would still put up a hard fight after I went to distance lands and killed demons it stupid on a scale I can't even fathom. (scaling just means the Dev's have to make less content and it a $$ saver and a lazy design and that's all there is too it)

If you haven't become more efficient at killing those boars thats on you, just because the number on your character is higher it is easier just not trivialized until you get gear. I think the opposite, its good design.

[Dadwen]

I'd say scaling ought to exist in all zones across the entire game. I suppose there could be a vendor you pay 10g to to turn it off (like the locking exp guy). But the inability to level with friends is pretty obnoxious. Like, either they level alone or need to restrict themselves to when I am also available.

It'd be nice if they expanded on the system so you could pick up quests mid-zone. Like if I'm 22 and partially through redridge and my friend is 73 and chilling in Dragonblight? He can swing down and start leveling with me instead of needed a new zone.

The only thing I'd restrict is some of the expansion content. Classic/TBC/MoP/WoD can be done 1-100, WoTLK/Cata can be done 60-100, and then the current expansion's content is 100-110.

what they could do in that case if you group with him it prompts if you want to scale to his level.

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Nope, i want this scaling on the entire of WoW, including dungeons and raids. i want to follow the storylines and do the quests in different zones between alts so i don't get bored, not follow the exact same cookiecutter route.

they used to have in the old world even in LK multi paths of leveling through, mind blown right???? but again that would take away from them saving $$ and the "lazy" part of the design, with out a route you might as well just run around and kill stuff and not really be playing a RPG type game, more a FPS with swords and spells (and guns and bows etc)

[StationaryHawk]

And about World Quests... to me, we should've still just had Daily Hubs Instead. At least you can pre-plan those and be done In 30 minutes or so.... this time around, you have to go around ALL of the zones, to do every, single, little, world quest... which from 30-60 minutes of being In a daily hub, turns Into 2-6 hours, depending on the World Quest spawn rate and their rewards, It all turns Into a much more bigger grindfest for very few rewards... not to mention how reliant you are on AP to keep up with your fellow PvPers or Raiders... once you connect all of these features Legion gave up, you can see they're not optional. not one of them. Unless you want to fall behind... and PvPers and Raiders won't want that. So legion Is quite bad so far, and scaling won't help.

Save the Warden and Kirin Tor WQs, you only need to go to one zone a day. If it's taking you 2-6 hours, you're doing something wrong.

[God Save The King]

what they could do in that case if you group with him it prompts if you want to scale to his level.

Good idea!!

[Dadwen]

It takes less than an hour to do it on 3 toons, my one request would be the World Quest Group Finder addon just be baked into the game with an option to turn it on and off. And preserve the group you were in before it added people.

That was a feature in Rift back in the day an was wonderful for speeding up group content.

It does add a bit of anonymity into the world because i have no idea nor care who is coming or going from my group, but i raid for the human connection that addon takes the time for world quests down by more than half.



If you haven't become more efficient at killing those boars thats on you, just because the number on your character is higher it is easier just not trivialized until you get gear. I think the opposite, its good design.

Huh right the level 5 guy is killing it in 30 seconds and it take me still 30 seconds (maybe 25 taking in account gear) 50 levels later, there is nothing even remotely "good" about that game design in any stretch of the imagination. by your very warped logic a naked level 5 toon and a naked level 100 toon that has fought wars and in other planes would face that boar on equal grounds (all that combat xp is worthless)...?????

[Xeranath]

No.

/downvote

#makescalinguniversal