[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[EzG]

Just want to vent; did a pug ToV normal to help a friend out, and one of the other paladin healers we picked up almost exclusively cast LotM for heals. It was really infuriating, especially when he was playfully poking at me for beating him out on heals (by y'know, actually using all of our good spells). I asked him, and he just said that LotM was 'sexy heals'.

At any rate, for Helya, he basically died any time there was damage going out, and never dispelled, so we had to do 3 dispels between the 2 of us healers leftover. The other one wasn't the best Priest ever, so it felt like a solo heal job. In the end, got 7th rank heals for the fight, though sadly just normals. 380k for about 8 mins.

Log it to WCL and show him his bottom of the dumpster hps since it will take the damage you took from it out of your healing.

[satanicsuture]

You cannot make a blanket statement like that: the actual comparison will be affected by your gear level, your target's gear level and your target's class and spec.

That said, this does seem to be true assuming ilvl 880 and near-BiS gear on both you and your target. My napkin math tells me the BoF beats FoL in both throughput and efficiency if the target is about 2.3M health or more (which means everybody regardless of class and spec at that level) but loses to FoL in both throughput and efficiency if the target is below 1.9M.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that healer throughput will grow probably faster than health pools, so the bracers will become worse and worse by comparison.

Ofcourse I can. And it always goes without saying that a person using it will speak from experience, and in this case my tests are concluded wearing my normal raiding gear, which is 877. Every simulation and every discussion in regards to throughput always have a set gear to compare against and at this point in the game, there are very few regular raiders below 875 in gearlevel.

FYI mine is 884 however the Kara cloak is too useful in it's current iteration.

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so quick question how much crit is good for my holy pally i can either have him at 41% crit or 38%crit but i gain 400int if im at 38%crit so just wondering if being at 41% is better than 400int???

I would say the 41% is better, but it does depend a lot on your healing style and encounter. Your Holy Shock doubles the crit chance to it's 82% vs 76% on your core spell.

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I have two dumb questions for you all. First, when using Beacon of Virtue, is there a preferred target I should heal to maximize the effect? For example, does it matter whether I heal the tank, the most injured player, the closest player (to benefit from mastery), or myself (with Obsidian Spaulders legendary)?

Second, I want to experiment with Light's Hammer in heroics and low level Mythic+. Has anyone had any success with Light's Hammer, or is it plainly inferior to Bestow Faith? I love Bestow Faith and I understand the mana cost of Light's Hammer is high, but the AoE damage component appeals to me.

For the Virtue, I haven't tested it enough but my initial conclusion is that you heal the most injured player because 40% of that heal goes on the rest. I'm not sure if overhealing counts. I can also say Virtue outperforms the other beacons in terms of throughput but you'll be OOM before the fight ends for sure. It's really great in higher Mythic+ however.

And for LH vs BF, for BF to be better you have to use it on cooldown. That's when it really shines. If you often forget it or rarely use it, LH will outperform it. For Mythic+ I wouldn't really pick BF unless you run something like a Brewmaster tank that rarely requires any healing, just the occasional BF cast.

[Maculo]

For the Virtue, I haven't tested it enough but my initial conclusion is that you heal the most injured player because 40% of that heal goes on the rest. I'm not sure if overhealing counts. I can also say Virtue outperforms the other beacons in terms of throughput but you'll be OOM before the fight ends for sure. It's really great in higher Mythic+ however.

And for LH vs BF, for BF to be better you have to use it on cooldown. That's when it really shines. If you often forget it or rarely use it, LH will outperform it. For Mythic+ I wouldn't really pick BF unless you run something like a Brewmaster tank that rarely requires any healing, just the occasional BF cast.

Thank you, I appreciate your help. I use Virtue for any 5-man (mythic or otherwise). Currently, I am trying to build good habits. For the most part, I have a hard time telling if I am using my mastery to full effect. Once bosses spread goo on the ground, I have a difficult time trying to stay close.

As for BF, that's good know. I often held back using BF on cooldown, because I liked to combine it with the Virtue cast window.

[Taeldorian]

Log it to WCL and show him his bottom of the dumpster hps since it will take the damage you took from it out of your healing.

I've been using LoTM every now and then. There's definitely a time and place for it, just can't use it back to back constantly. Then again, I have prydaz so using it when I have the absorb shield up is usually what I do if I have the opportunity.

Hopefully this is something they decide to work on for next expac, like maybe fix fervent martyr to actually do something useful like give us an absorb shield every x amount of seconds/minutes so we can use it. Or maybe make it cost less health for the same heal.

I feel like they could easily make a talent that allows LoTM to be used more and actually have interaction, but they don't want to really mess with any healer stuff because as they've said repeatedly already healers are in a really good state right now (which is very true for the most part, surprised balance turned out to be this good).

Either way I've found uses for it, but having it as your top 1-5 spells cast is no bueno for sure.

[Genzen Han]

I like it in PvP since it's spammable and instant, and can be good to save FCs when you're on the move.

[Taeldorian]

Quick gear question:

Gnawed thumb ring- mythic 9 860

Or

Grubby silver ring- Heroic warforged 870

Hardly lowers my crit but I lose some vers in exchange for mastery. Not sure which is better and can't sim atm. Looking for opinions.

[Rorschachs]

I've been using LoTM every now and then. There's definitely a time and place for it, just can't use it back to back constantly. Then again, I have prydaz so using it when I have the absorb shield up is usually what I do if I have the opportunity.

Hopefully this is something they decide to work on for next expac, like maybe fix fervent martyr to actually do something useful like give us an absorb shield every x amount of seconds/minutes so we can use it. Or maybe make it cost less health for the same heal.

I feel like they could easily make a talent that allows LoTM to be used more and actually have interaction, but they don't want to really mess with any healer stuff because as they've said repeatedly already healers are in a really good state right now (which is very true for the most part, surprised balance turned out to be this good).

Either way I've found uses for it, but having it as your top 1-5 spells cast is no bueno for sure.

You have to think of it as a spell that does half the healing that it says it does. The more I use it the less healing I do generally.

[Taeldorian]

You have to think of it as a spell that does half the healing that it says it does. The more I use it the less healing I do generally.

Yeah that's true. It interacts well with the neck though, especially in 7.1.5. I think the neck gives me two LoTMs with no cost. Unless LoTM still detracts from logs even with an absorb up, but I haven't checked my logs since getting the neck. That would be really silly if it did tbh.

[Genzen Han]

Yeah that's true. It interacts well with the neck though, especially in 7.1.5. I think the neck gives me two LoTMs with no cost. Unless LoTM still detracts from logs even with an absorb up, but I haven't checked my logs since getting the neck. That would be really silly if it did tbh.

If it tracked the damage against your absorbs then it would also have to credit you for the healing done by the absorb, which effectively cancels itself out, leaving you with just the credit for the actual heal done.

[MCC]

It buffs haste and we have absolutely no need for that.

In M+ I can feel the difference between zero haste, 5% haste and 7% haste. The latter makes healing feel significantly more responsive. Back when I was using Sephuz, its buff was useful enough for me to try and proc it intentionally whenever I needed a bit more throughput. Think of it as a mini-Holy Avenger on a shorter cooldown. HA is quite useful, and so is Sephuz.

Obviously, this doesn't extend to raids.

[Taeldorian]

In M+ I can feel the difference between zero haste, 5% haste and 7% haste. The latter makes healing feel significantly more responsive. Back when I was using Sephuz, its buff was useful enough for me to try and proc it intentionally whenever I needed a bit more throughput. Think of it as a mini-Holy Avenger on a shorter cooldown. HA is quite useful, and so is Sephuz.

Obviously, this doesn't extend to raids.

What if you already have like 8% haste or so? Would it become less useful or would that not matter?

[MCC]

What if you already have like 8% haste or so? Would it become less useful or would that not matter?

I don't think it will become less useful, and I don't think it will matter much, either.

It's basically throughput in exchange for longevity. In situations where longevity is less important (like M+), it's roughly on par with other throughput stats, and avoiding haste altogether is not a high priority.

[ginamarie]

How are our stat weights looking for the upcoming stat change? Anyone have an estimate?

[EzG]

How are our stat weights looking for the upcoming stat change? Anyone have an estimate?

No number is final or accurate. We know Int will be better instead of crit and/or vers currently being better. The priority will be the same and the values somewhat close to each other, but the fact that the ptr isn't in a release state then you won't find a 100% answer.

[ginamarie]

No number is final or accurate. We know Int will be better instead of crit and/or vers currently being better. The priority will be the same and the values somewhat close to each other, but the fact that the ptr isn't in a release state then you won't find a 100% answer.

Thanks! I've got so much gear held over now sitting in my bag that's way higher ilevel but just not better due to crit. Seems such a shame for a 850 to better than 890. Seems broken. I'm curious how it will play out on live with the patch.

[EzG]

Thanks! I've got so much gear held over now sitting in my bag that's way higher ilevel but just not better due to crit. Seems such a shame for a 850 to better than 890. Seems broken. I'm curious how it will play out on live with the patch.

The idea is when it goes live the 850 will never be better than the 890 for raw int gains.

[Taeldorian]

The idea is when it goes live the 850 will never be better than the 890 for raw int gains.

I hope that's true for trinkets too. I've got an 880 int trink sitting in my bags (not a stat stick) and currently the 845 int/crit stat stick i have is better. I guess trinkets are a different beast though due to effects and such.

[Deleted]

I was playing during Cata, but thanks for your baseless assumption.

[Timadin]

I have been having success with SW, but I am always looking to improve so I've been doing a lot of reading and I'd trying to figure out if there is a definitive answer to JoL or SW. My only relevant legendary is the belt which shouldn't affect things now but I think it will with the changes next patch. I really prefer SW play style rather than JoL but if JoL is truly THAT much stronger I will learn to adjust. I'd like some opinions on if we have a tank with JoL in the raid and if we do not have one, just to cover all the bases. Any current thoughts on JoL vs SW, if JoL is indeed stronger by how much.. more than 5%...10%? A lot of what I find is a little old so I want to make sure I have current information.

[MCC]

I have been having success with SW, but I am always looking to improve so I've been doing a lot of reading and I'd trying to figure out if there is a definitive answer to JoL or SW. My only relevant legendary is the belt which shouldn't affect things now but I think it will with the changes next patch. I really prefer SW play style rather than JoL but if JoL is truly THAT much stronger I will learn to adjust. I'd like some opinions on if we have a tank with JoL in the raid and if we do not have one, just to cover all the bases. Any current thoughts on JoL vs SW, if JoL is indeed stronger by how much.. more than 5%...10%? A lot of what I find is a little old so I want to make sure I have current information.

There is no "definitive answer". Some fights favor JoL, some favor SW.