Level Scaling should be OPTIONAL in the future

[Dadwen]

That's the change now you don't level out of a zone you just explore that zones story, the zone itself stays relevant until the next xpac. And each zone has story added to it.

Level has a lot less meaning which for me is fine, but for others doesn't seem to be. I like scaling and am happy its here.

Just because you are 110 if you go afk things can still kill you.



Not for raids and only one xpac of dungeons per month...

glad you're happy guess some people are only happy when things are forced on others they dislike, must be a nice way to live.

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i dont think anyone who played in vanilla/bc would say that it is more social now, but thats the black and white view-either its more social or its less social- with the systems they have in place having scaling is a step towards building community, is it perfect for that, nah, but it is one thing that is achieved with its primary goal of more freedom of where to level

so who cares if we destroy the entire spirit of RPG games and destroy the flow of the story, more than likely it won't build anything, if you can always group with your friends no matter their level with scaling no need to meet others that are the same level as you anymore and build new friends to over come things.

[Dietrik]

glad you're happy guess some people are only happy when things are forced on others they dislike, must be a nice way to live

Not at all, i am sorry you don't like it but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of it either way. All but one of our raid team that i have spoken to really likes the zone scaling, IMO its one of the best things they have implemented for leveling in a long time. Not that i really care about leveling its a chore which has to be done before max level content but it was better than its ever been.

Overall the game is in a good spot, i recently switched to healing for the first time since mop which is in a really good place... My issues with the game are around CRZ recently they have trashed the faction balance and AP grind, but nothing which is affecting my enjoyment.

[enchiridion]

so who cares if we destroy the entire spirit of RPG games and destroy the flow of the story, more than likely it won't build anything, if you can always group with your friends no matter their level with scaling no need to meet others that are the same level as you anymore and build new friends to over come things.

Because sometimes friends dont want to do the same zone, sometimes friends arent on, sometimes friends just hate x zone or killing y mobs so you go out and work with others. If you are the kind of person who only wants to play with friends then you will find a way to do just that. This is a step in facilitating another option for people to work with others that they may not know.(no i dont think that was what was intended by scaling-thats silly- just an unintended happy side effect). Also, theres a fine line btwn destroying the spirit of something and exploring new territory of it

[Dadwen]

Not at all, i am sorry you don't like it but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of it either way. All but one of our raid team that i have spoken to really likes the zone scaling, IMO its one of the best things they have implemented for leveling in a long time. Not that i really care about leveling its a chore which has to be done before max level content but it was better than its ever been.

Overall the game is in a good spot, i recently switched to healing for the first time since mop which is in a really good place... My issues with the game are around CRZ recently they have trashed the faction balance and AP grind, but nothing which is affecting my enjoyment.

Really so what's so wrong with optional then? why do you feel it needs to be forced if it's so great?

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Because sometimes friends dont want to do the same zone, sometimes friends arent on, sometimes friends just hate x zone or killing y mobs so you go out and work with others. If you are the kind of person who only wants to play with friends then you will find a way to do just that. This is a step in facilitating another option for people to work with others that they may not know.(no i dont think that was what was intended by scaling-thats silly- just an unintended happy side effect)

again why not just make it if you join a group it asks if you want to scale to them not force your crappy idea of good gameplay on others?

[enchiridion]

Really so what's so wrong with optional then? why do you feel it needs to be forced if it's so great?

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again why not just make it if you join a group it asks if you want to scale to them not force your crappy idea of good gameplay on others?

I already explained why optional scaling is bad, here is the copy paste of it "2.You are telling me that you can run through mobs (some areas are highly populated) <=10 levels lower than you and not pull them? if thats somehow the case, imagine a skinner coming to a farm area-with scaling you have time to tag the mob as well and get the quest item you need, without it you do not.
3."Tradition"(its always been this way) is not a valid argument, there is now a viable solution to that problem and there is no reason it shouldn't be implemented....having optional would wholly defeat the purpose of scaling and wouldnt be truly optional"

TL;DR: optional scaling is not optional since you are at a disadvantage if someone else turns off scaling

What i want to know is why you have such a problem with the scaling, how does it hurt you to have zones scale (for the level range of the expac they represent)

[Rotted]

It a far better system, places are always busy and people doing something,

legit most of the time I only see people moaning about this because they can't be op to shit in some zones leveling,

[Dadwen]

I already explained why optional scaling is bad, here is the copy paste of it "2.You are telling me that you can run through mobs (some areas are highly populated) <=10 levels lower than you and not pull them? if thats somehow the case, imagine a skinner coming to a farm area-with scaling you have time to tag the mob as well and get the quest item you need, without it you do not.
3."Tradition"(its always been this way) is not a valid argument, there is now a viable solution to that problem and there is no reason it shouldn't be implemented....having optional would wholly defeat the purpose of scaling and wouldnt be truly optional"

TL;DR: optional scaling is not optional since you are at a disadvantage if someone else turns off scaling

What i want to know is why you have such a problem with the scaling, how does it hurt you to have zones scale (for the level range of the expac they represent)

so you want gear to scale too?

*and I said several times why I hated it, from a game play and RPG play it's really moronic, I should be able to stomp some mobs I killed at level 5 after all the stuff my char's been though and learned, and it screws the story flow up to high hell.

[jac9996]

My view on scaling zones is the benefits of it out way any negatives and I think it should be rolled out to most zones if not all zones. It just gives you so much more choice and extends the purpose and life of the zones so much more which is good for an online mmo. I dont think zerging through zones you out level really fast is as good as an experience then if you were actually playing in them at the intended difficulty and level and experiencing them how the designers of each zone intended.

[Dadwen]

It a far better system, places are always busy and people doing something,

legit most of the time I only see people moaning about this because they can't be op to shit in some zones leveling,

just means they are going to level slower killing weaker mobs, and people are still going to all end up wanting to go to the same place with scaling, ease of mob's, pathing, this way they level and move on for the next group.

[FelPlague]

1. cool blog post
2. making content harder that gives no reward, means no one will do it ever in a MMO because it puts you at a disadvantage to others
3. say hello to our 2 a day adam thread about how to improve the game with a shitty design that most obviously wont improve the game

[Dadwen]

My view on scaling zones is the benefits of it out way any negatives and I think it should be rolled out to most zones if not all zones. It just gives you so much more choice and extends the purpose and life of the zones so much more which is good for an online mmo. I dont think zerging through zones you out level really fast is as good as an experience then if you were actually playing in them at the intended difficulty and level and experiencing them how the designers of each zone intended.

so instead just having scaling and they can stay in the same place and kill the same mobs over and over and never see any of the other zone, that's better for the game???, only time I zerg though quest zone is when I did it on the first toon for the achieve, after that any toons I leveled till they hit the suggested max and moved to the next zone.

[Dietrik]

Really so what's so wrong with optional then? why do you feel it needs to be forced if it's so great?

It only works well because it affects everyone, and allows all quests to be used as world quests. if you could opt out, max level people would turn it off and go and clear out an area of world quests mobs which a low level person is clearing one at a time... it would happen over and over and make leveling and world quests painful for everyone after the first person.

To counter that they would have to force max level questing into one zone, then you have 4 zones which get less utilized because they can't have max level people ruining leveling. Then have people complain that there is only one max level zone again.

The Wod model having max level areas within leveling zones was ok, but i think the current model is best.

You could get rid of world quests and have a few static dailies, or have the pool of hundreds of world quests with scaling.

[enchiridion]

so you want gear to scale too?

no, because the scaling of gear is drastically slower than the scaling of levels-and with the changes to stats they are making i would venture that its going to go slower still. This creates the kind of disparties in power that you see with outleveling content much farther into an expac and, in fact, is the progression of your character at end level. As my original post stated i find an issue with not seeing enough character progression in leveling in legion and i think that scaling gear would kill it for end game. By no means is this a perfect solution as you still have that power gap, but something that would be considered acceptable would be hinged on how many players, on average, level at different points in an expac vs how much high geared players, on average, frequent those same zones. one major benefit to their design is a lvl 100 only zone, and the implementation of the broken shore again, and potentially Argus being a full zone which keeps most higher geared (more progressed) players that can overpower a zone in those zones for less time.

[Schizoide]

My understanding is that Legion content will only scale up to level 110. So next expansion, you'll be able to come back and completely destroy the Legion world bosses and such. If that's the case, I have no problem with it.

[jac9996]

1. cool blog post
2. making content harder that gives no reward, means no one will do it ever in a MMO because it puts you at a disadvantage to others
3. say hello to our weekly adam thread about how to improve the game with a shitty design that most obviously wont improve the game

Gives no reward? The rewards scale up to your level and if it was rolled out to other zones you could level anywhere at any level I think people would play in them personally.

[Deleted]

I'd like to see Timewalking Raids like we saw with Wows 10 year anniversary. I'd be good with a rotating weekly quest to complete a Time-walking raid once a month.

Would love this, I want Karazhan.

[Akka]

I don't see how "This zone is for lvl 108-109" while "This zone is for 103-104" has anything to do with character. It's just arbitary game mechanic imposed by some dev after the zone was created.

With scaling you can actually concentrate on the character of the zones.

We're back to what I has been saying since the beginning : if it's to remove the point of levels, then just remove the levels and be done with it. They are already made irrelevant through scaling and auto-adjusting everything on the fly. Why keep them ?

[jac9996]

so instead just having scaling and they can stay in the same place and kill the same mobs over and over and never see any of the other zone, that's better for the game???, only time I zerg though quest zone is when I did it on the first toon for the achieve, after that any toons I leveled till they hit the suggested max and moved to the next zone.

that is assuming the exp from mobs would be good enough to do that. they could easy alter that to make it more beneficial to do quests then grind out mobs not really a huge problem to fix.

[Schizoide]

We're back to what I has been saying since the beginning : if it's to remove the point of levels, then just remove the levels and be done with it. They are already made irrelevant through scaling and auto-adjusting everything on the fly. Why keep them ?

WoW is a dikuclone MUD, and its core gameplay and retention mechanic is character progression-- in other words, getting more powerful. Autoleveling outdoor zones absolutely do castrate that to a degree, but given that leveling from 100 to 110 takes well under 10 hours, and you get much more powerful with gear and artifact power at max level, it isn't a big deal.

[Dadwen]

no, because the scaling of gear is drastically slower than the scaling of levels-and with the changes to stats they are making i would venture that its going to go slower still. This creates the kind of disparties in power that you see with outleveling content much farther into an expac and, in fact, is the progression of your character at end level. As my original post stated i find an issue with not seeing enough character progression in leveling in legion and i think that scaling gear would kill it for end game. By no means is this a perfect solution as you still have that power gap, but something that would be considered acceptable would be hinged on how many players, on average, level at different points in an expac vs how much high geared players, on average, frequent those same zones. one major benefit to their design is a lvl 100 only zone, and the implementation of the broken shore again, and potentially Argus being a full zone which keeps most higher geared (more progressed) players that can overpower a zone in those zones for less time.

so you're ok with some guy killing everything in a lower zone because he's 100+ Ilevels above everyone else in gear, but hell no if it's 10 levels of XP..... How often is 110 going into level 10 zones anyway, has it been that much of an issue in the past they have to go to this retarded scaling system...