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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by broods View Post
    our new feminist government
    I was starting to think this might actually be a topic worthy of discuss, and then you...

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    The average swede does not pay 50% though.
    More like 30%.
    Which is the problem.

    The average, which is average for a reason ; Pays less.

    You literally get punished for climbing higher. To the extent of being able to make 4-5 times the pay, for the same position, in another country. When the relative costs, is approx 2-3 times higher. Leaving you with more money, regardless.

    I actually counted on this, the relativity of worth of living in New York - One of the most expensive places in the world, to live. And the numbers crunched out, that with a pay of 15k Dollars a month, you will still have more relative purchasing power, than that of making 35k swedish a month, for the same job.

    So, the discussion becomes really just, if you condense it - "Why should you, invest half of your pay (read: 50% taxes on the higher echilons) for services that are poorly rendered (7 months waiting time for Healthcare you already payed for, lol)?

    Because of imagined morals? Because of that you will, feel better with a conciousness of making less, but having imagined moral highground?
    Last edited by mmoc411114546c; 2016-12-30 at 01:35 AM.

  3. #143
    Immortal Zelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torto View Post
    There isn't a tax the socialists have seen that they didn't like.

    They don't like common folk having money, they prefer to spend it for you
    Come on now mate

  4. #144
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    Why work if the state gives you everything you need for free?

    I like this reality.

  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    A Republican.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Acting like you're the only person in the world despite the facts is very right wing of you, and very 2016 of you.

    And if you really want to get down to it, why do we pay money for anything? Debt is just a human construct formed by the very idea of greed, and money is just notary debt. Sharing the world and its resources should be our primary goal, but selfish ambition and blind nationalism has lead us down the fun road we walk today.

    Sig worthy.

    For the record, it isn't. It's based on the idea that, that if you give up money that you could've used for consumption today, that you should be compensated with more in the future to make up for that foregone opportunity. Also, it's based on the idea if you loan something, you should be paid back.

    Interest.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revi View Post
    I think people should care less about tax % in general. Your purchasing power is what matters.

    If I'm taxed 50% and have everything I need, luxury items and holidays from my 35 hour work week I'm a lot better off than someone who does the same work, is taxed 25%, and struggles to get by even when putting in more hours.

    Tax rate really has very little to do with peoples standard of living.
    Well unless you're born in a rich family, purchasing power is...crappy(At least in the US).
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Well unless you're born in a rich family, purchasing power is...crappy(At least in the US).
    Not really. You just live in a radicalized capitalistic country ; If you're poor, you're really f'ed - But if you're above average to high tier - Then you can buy more things than a lot of other countries offers.

    Except for internet, i suppose, lol.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by broods View Post
    Tax cuts are old and outdated.
    It is obvious that large tax cuts are not what Sweden need. That era is over in Swedish politics. Said Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson in an interview with Dagens Industri, published on Tuesday.

    Sweden has the second highest income tax rate in the world, and the highest in Europe, with a 56.6% deducted from annual income and have the highest marginal tax in the world.

    Source in Swedish
    http://www.svd.se/skattesankningar-a...lt-och-mossigt

    As someone who is already subject to state taxation because of my (relatively) high salary this is just completely insane to me. On top of this i have to pay a 25% VAT on everything i buy and on top of that extra taxes on some items such as alcohol, tobacco, gasoline, cars etc.

    Do you think our new feminist government is on to something here? Is paying low taxes an outdated model? Should every country drastically raise taxes?
    Do our finance minister possess some kind of new groundbreaking knowledge in economics that the rest of the world have yet to learn?

    Hardly anyone pays that 56% as you make want it to sound like. And quite frankly the taxes have been lowered far to much in Sweden by the Reinfeldt administration. Just look around you and you can see the disaster that Reinfeldts former wife created for the healthcare in Stockholm. grossly underfunded and a new hospital that cost how many billions over budget?

    We need to stop the waste of taxpayer money with freebie giveaways to the rich which is what taxcuts are nothing more nothing less and i can promise you those taxcuts didnt create a single job during the Reinfeldt era.


    the 56% you are trying to pound of as the tax rate in Sweden only applies on income above 615,700 SEK which i can promise you is an extremely high income and basically NOONE that is a regular worker is making that much money
    Last edited by araine; 2016-12-30 at 01:46 AM.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by mittacc View Post
    Yes you did. Yes it does. If someone pays X% more in taxes they work X% more for other people.
    "We stand upon the shoulders of giants"

    The level of entrepreneurship of today would not be possible without the infrastructure that exists in modern countries. E.g. Free health-care translates into healthier workforce, which is good for business; free education translates into a more educated workforce, which is good for business - and the list could go on.

    The rich pay more because they generally have benefited more and will benefit more. But there are also other factors at play in the case of Sweden, namely a strong commitment to solidarity.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by helloworld32 View Post
    Why work if the state gives you everything you need for free?

    I like this reality.
    People don't like the state just giving them money people actually prefer to work.

  11. #151
    In a sense, Sweden is on the right track of targeted Tax Cuts being absolute shit. Those are what we call "Tax Expenditures" and the money from those obviously needs to come from somewhere, usually in the form of higher taxes so the cut itself is made moot.

    Less targeted cuts/breaks means a simpler tax code, a simpler tax code means less man-power in order to administer and enforce it. Which then translates to a more efficient tax system that takes less money, thus resulting in lower taxes for EVERYONE! Or resulting in money that can be better spent on other areas such as health and education.

    So yes, the "feminist" Government is on to something. But perhaps you should pay a little more attention and try not to hide behind your fear of this mystical boogey-man.

    Now, to be honest, I can't read Swedish so I can only base my thoughts off the very poor translated version.
    Last edited by Baelic; 2016-12-30 at 01:51 AM.

  12. #152
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPHeroLulz View Post
    Not really. You just live in a radicalized capitalistic country ; If you're poor, you're really f'ed - But if you're above average to high tier - Then you can buy more things than a lot of other countries offers.

    Except for internet, i suppose, lol.
    It still sucks pretty bad. It could be much better. Also note I said (At least in the US). I don't know about any other first world country.
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  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It still sucks pretty bad. It could be much better. Also note I said (At least in the US). I don't know about any other first world country.
    Having looked through it, from my vague understanding of Economics, the US still trumps a lot of other countries.

    I don't know where you get your data from, but even basic napkin math yields this to be true, at least when accounting for New York (Which is one of the most expensive places in the world to live in) compared to Sweden (Sweden being a solid economy)

    Assuming you yield a high pay job ; But that's the general trend of the US overall, like i said, if you are poor, you are f-ed.
    Last edited by mmoc411114546c; 2016-12-30 at 02:31 AM.

  14. #154
    So many butthurt swedes. As a canadian, I pay about 36% tax, which is already a hell of a lot more than I'd like to, but we still have good healthcare at least. If I was paying 50% i'd just find an excuse to quit working and live off the backs of others. Fuck that noise. If i make $500k a year, why should $150k go to the government? Taxes should be a percent, with a cap on it. No loopholes, no write offs, no other bullshit. Just tax everyone the same percent, and make a cap so people who make better choices aren't being penalized. I work 84 hours a week+. I want that money I sacrificed my life for. I want it for a nice vacation, nice home, nice vehicles and toys, and to be able to retire and Enjoy the rest of my life as a worn out old man once I'm 50 or so. That's not selfish, it's MY time i'm sacrificing, for MY money. Fuck off with all these extra social programs. Keep a good healthcare system in place, after that stay out of my pockets

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by analmoose View Post
    So many butthurt swedes. As a canadian, I pay about 36% tax, which is already a hell of a lot more than I'd like to, but we still have good healthcare at least. If I was paying 50% i'd just find an excuse to quit working and live off the backs of others. Fuck that noise. If i make $500k a year, why should $150k go to the government? Taxes should be a percent, with a cap on it. No loopholes, no write offs, no other bullshit. Just tax everyone the same percent, and make a cap so people who make better choices aren't being penalized. I work 84 hours a week+. I want that money I sacrificed my life for. I want it for a nice vacation, nice home, nice vehicles and toys, and to be able to retire and Enjoy the rest of my life as a worn out old man once I'm 50 or so. That's not selfish, it's MY time i'm sacrificing, for MY money. Fuck off with all these extra social programs. Keep a good healthcare system in place, after that stay out of my pockets
    I'm a believer in goods and services taxes. Tax what you spend, not what you earn. It encourages people to earn and save and reduce household debt.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPHeroLulz View Post
    Which is the problem.

    The average, which is average for a reason ; Pays less.

    You literally get punished for climbing higher. To the extent of being able to make 4-5 times the pay, for the same position, in another country. When the relative costs, is approx 2-3 times higher. Leaving you with more money, regardless.

    I actually counted on this, the relativity of worth of living in New York - One of the most expensive places in the world, to live. And the numbers crunched out, that with a pay of 15k Dollars a month, you will still have more relative purchasing power, than that of making 35k swedish a month, for the same job.

    So, the discussion becomes really just, if you condense it - "Why should you, invest half of your pay (read: 50% taxes on the higher echilons) for services that are poorly rendered (7 months waiting time for Healthcare you already payed for, lol)?

    Because of imagined morals? Because of that you will, feel better with a conciousness of making less, but having imagined moral highground?
    That's because you are obliged to pay for the social infrastructure that allows you to safely amass that amount of wealth to begin with. And if you refuse you, you are welcome to move to a nation that you don't have to pay as much taxes because they don't have said infrastructure to protect you and your interests, like Somalia.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  17. #157
    Economically speaking, the best time to lower taxes is when the economy is having issues. Then you raise taxes when the economy is running well. That way taxation acts as a natural stimulator and brake. I wish countries would adopt a variable tax rate, wherein people pay a base amount that's modified by the GDP so it happens without direct government action every time.
    You're not allowed to discuss conspiracy theories on mmo-champion, which makes me wonder what they're trying to hide.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    Tax cuts do no real good. The money you "save" still isn't money freed up for you to use. Your costs will go up as a result of the government not having that money they lose from the tax cut.
    One way or another, you have to pay. Just look at the US and their horrendous health insurance system. You think paying less taxes helps anyone with their health?
    We enjoy more freedom and liberty than they do and both of those cost money. Our lives are more equal. Our lives are more valued. All because we share in the cost of what it means to have our country.

    I suggest you study the history of the Social Democracts and worker unions from the early 1900's, what they did for Sweden, why and how. Solidarity, freedom and liberty are Swedens core values and I'd hate to see them erroded with selfserving, selfish, arrogant mindsets from abroad.
    People back then wanted equal chance for a good life, equal opportunity and freedom. They achieved it by coming together and founding the core values of our country today, so that nobody would be controlled by some lord or forced into anything or told they're not allowed to aspire above their "station".
    We are not ruled by corporate greed.
    We don't owe our lives to the people with the most money.
    When we go to vote we know our votes matter and that we're not voting for some corporate puppet or warmongering billionaire.

    Such things aren't free. But perhaps you're too young to know of any kind of struggle like that. Perhaps the system that your parents and their parents built for you have spoiled you so that you don't know what you've got. Well I don't want to live in Little America, where money and selfishness is the top priority. I know there are many, many Americans out there that would agree with that sentiment but have lost all hope that their voice can even be heard.

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    I'm gonna take a guess that the OP voted rightwing.

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    I wouldn't expect you of all people to know squat about my country or its values.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not in our current situation that's for sure. It's quite the opposite, we need a lot more money for pretty much everything. So cutting anyones taxes as it is today would be a bad thing.
    The US bureacracy is the most wasteful entity that has ever existed. Every single office exists to spend every last dollar allotted so they can request more funding for the next year whether they need it or not. All more taxes does is allow agencies to waste even more money. I can't depend on the government to spend my tax dollars efficiently. A bunch of fucking idiots. Our taxes just get sent into a money shredder.

  19. #159
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    Economically speaking, the best time to lower taxes is when the economy is having issues. Then you raise taxes when the economy is running well. That way taxation acts as a natural stimulator and brake. I wish countries would adopt a variable tax rate, wherein people pay a base amount that's modified by the GDP so it happens without direct government action every time.
    Cutting taxes is stupendously ineffective at economic stimulus. Businesses just pocket the gains and hand them to shareholders.

    Spending to provide demand actually works.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    Tax cuts do no real good. The money you "save" still isn't money freed up for you to use.
    What you're saying is that the government uses the money that you earn better on your behalf than you do. That's a premise that's quite telling what you think about yourself and your fellow citizens.

    On principle, I'm an advocate of a reasonably pure capitalism with health insurance and a basic social net. However, in a world where banks and car companies and energy suppliers are somehow too big to fail and need and receive absurd bailouts, we might as well tax them till they bleed in those times when they actually are turning a profit.

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