Momentum in 7.1.5

[Revion]

So some crackpot reason I was calculating 3 instead of 4 and thought the difference was simply due to dropping DS. I'm totally wrong on that front haha. My bad fam, thanks for taking the time to correct me.

[Reignfire]

4 VRs per minute is 16/60 ~ 26.5% uptime. You get a Fel Rush every 10 seconds, this is 4/10 or another 40% uptime, so with Prepared uptime is around 65% optimally. Demon Blades increases the CD on VR to 25s, so instead of 26.5% uptime you get 4/25 or 16% instead, leading to around 55% uptime with DB.

Pretty much this. In response to the whole thread-

I'm skeptical. My issue stands with the "EFFECTIVE" uptime of a momentum build vs. a "NON-EFFECTIVE" build of nemesis. Let's say I had 63% uptime of momentum on a fight, that 63% in particular is going to be spend using hard hitting abilities, such as CS's. With Nemesis even at 50-67% uptime how much time is spent building fury. I think it competes closer @25% damage, however if Blur still resets fel rushes then Momo will still be the most ideal precision build for maximizing damage. Now some Nighthold fights are a little counter Momo, but we shall see. Feel free to crush my theories here.

[Ravec]

Yeah I am pretty good at Momentum.

Does it mean that we get to use (in a typical scenario): Felblade, DBlades, Bloodlet, whatever, Momentum, whatever, CB/Barrage just like we do now? I mean, the only thing that changes is that now that Felblade can be used WITH glaive build, that's gonna be the go-to. Or am I wrong?

You're pretty good at momentum? Teach me senpai.

[Wardonis]

Only in heavy single target fights, anything else momentum is still the best talent.

this is wrong, momentum is in 3rd place.

the felblade build will do better ST beating out demonic eyebeam build because of burst only but they pull reoughly the same numbers in a 5-10 minute fight
in cleave and in aoe, and any encounter with adds demonic eyebeam will destroy every other build.

[Khiyone]

this is wrong, momentum is in 3rd place.

the felblade build will do better ST beating out demonic eyebeam build because of burst only but they pull reoughly the same numbers in a 5-10 minute fight
in cleave and in aoe, and any encounter with adds demonic eyebeam will destroy every other build.

What does demonic have to do with the Momentum tier?

[chooi]

Just remove Nemesis, make Momentum baseline and remake their talent row to CC/Utility tier. Problem solved.

[Sarange]

Just remove Nemesis, make Momentum baseline and remake their talent row to CC/Utility tier. Problem solved.

Why? Theres no problem as it stands. Just people disliking not having one build and one build only. Which must include momentum, cuz "muh skill cap".

[Racthoh]

nemesis is such a lame ass talent but momentum should just be moved to a pvp only talent since it encourages such a terrible playstyle inside of a raid environment. glad to see they're moving further (slowly) from momentum as a mandatory. hope to see more of that in the future.

[Veiled Shadow]

nemesis is such a lame ass talent but momentum should just be moved to a pvp only talent since it encourages such a terrible playstyle inside of a raid environment. glad to see they're moving further (slowly) from momentum as a mandatory. hope to see more of that in the future.

What exactly about Momentum makes it a terrible playstyle? It introduces constant pooling and dumping, something that's hardly exceptional in this game. Movement is not exclusive to Momentum - you need to FR regardless of any talent choices.

[Wyrt]

Just remove Nemesis, make Momentum baseline and remake their talent row to CC/Utility tier. Problem solved.

Nemesis is boring and probably should be replaced, but Momentum is just annoying and shouldn't be baseline. It's fine as a talent. There are plenty of classes with maintenance buffs. Hell, enhance shaman has 3 of those. People who want baseline Momentum would probably be happier staring at Enhancement's buff timers.

[Racthoh]

What exactly about Momentum makes it a terrible playstyle? It introduces constant pooling and dumping, something that's hardly exceptional in this game. Movement is not exclusive to Momentum - you need to FR regardless of any talent choices.

you're kidding right the entire spec is designed around this talent since beta, only now they are trying to slowly fix it. expect in a few patches fel rush to be only used for cleave.

[Deleted]

I think Momentum should be higher dps gain than Nemesis cuz of the playstyle it requires and since Momentum is such a unique playstyle, I love DH cuz of the Momentum, I really hope they buff Momentum for ST aswell, I'm one of those who can't stand Nemesis since it's like playing like any other melee DPS Class other than it's being different spell animations even tho u might be using Fel Rush with any specs, but I like the 4 sec window :P

[Raiju]

nemesis is such a lame ass talent but momentum should just be moved to a pvp only talent since it encourages such a terrible playstyle inside of a raid environment. glad to see they're moving further (slowly) from momentum as a mandatory. hope to see more of that in the future.

momentum should always be a viable PVE talent. I think people are conceding enough that it not be mandatory.

It works fine in a raid environment, and actually makes things interesting.

[Wardonis]

What does demonic have to do with the Momentum tier?

momentum doesn't work with the demonic eyebeam build, too much down time on chaos strike

momentum should always be a viable PVE talent. I think people are conceding enough that it not be mandatory.

It works fine in a raid environment, and actually makes things interesting.

all talents should be viable but none mandatory,

[Khiyone]

momentum doesn't work with the demonic eyebeam build, too much down time on chaos strike

What? I don't follow this reasoning.

From what I understand, Momentum is the optimal T106 talent to pair with Demonic, because Demonic focuses on sporadic burst windows that don't reliably mesh with Nemesis' CD. Moreover, the usual reasoning of Momentum scaling with target count applies equally well to Demonic (and AoE is the only scenario where you'd consider using Demonic in the first place).

[Raiju]

momentum doesn't work with the demonic eyebeam build, too much down time on chaos strike

Maybe if you have 5k ms.

[Wardonis]

What? I don't follow this reasoning.

From what I understand, Momentum is the optimal T106 talent to pair with Demonic, because Demonic focuses on sporadic burst windows that don't reliably mesh with Nemesis' CD. Moreover, the usual reasoning of Momentum scaling with target count applies equally well to Demonic (and AoE is the only scenario where you'd consider using Demonic in the first place).

demonic isn't a burst talent, its sustained damage. you spend 75% of a 5 min fight in demon form. to make that happen you need to spam the crap out of chaos strike. with momentum you both spend too many GCDs casting abilities that are not chaos strike, and you spend too much time out of range to cast chaos strike.

[Pigglix]

I really didnt found any fights for both En and ToV that i was out of range because of momentum o_o

[Deleted]

Momentum should be baseline and fel rush + prepared should be a single talent.

Nemesis should still be a talent that removed Momentum and instead give it a button "push this and obtain X % of damage for y % of time". Just like actual nemesis.

All problems solved. DH remain strong with his unique playstyle and whoever isn't comfortable or want an stronger single target output can pick nemesis.

in place for momentum I'd put a talent that make your fel rush stop when crossing a target, maintaining melee in all moments. Like Illidan in HoTs ability.

- - - Updated - - -

I really didnt found any fights for both En and ToV that i was out of range because of momentum o_o

That's simply because every boss in raid has a large hitbox. Now go to do some mythics+ where most bosses have normal hitboxes and you'll find yourself losing melee and having to run to the boss almost every time you fel rush.

[Raiju]

That's simply because every boss in raid has a large hitbox. Now go to do some mythics+ where most bosses have normal hitboxes and you'll find yourself losing melee and having to run to the boss almost every time you fel rush.

Demonic build isn't for bosses - chaos blades *DESTROYS* it on dungeon bosses if that's what you want.

It's for trash, and given usual trash spread and the ease of using walls / barriers you don't need to leave melee much at all.
@Wardonis Demonic is about short burst windows, yes. That is exactly what the talent is, short frequent bursts.