I assert that individuals can make it on minimum wage.

[Ragedaug]

Couple years out of date mind you but still relevant

It's like you aren't even reading what you are quoting. The dude is saying that he thinks it should be $20, not that it was ever the equivalent (ie. adjusted for inflation) anywhere close to $20

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You're contradicting yourself. Minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation in the slightest. Hell, it had lost 8.1% of its purchasing power due to inflation in 2014 thanks to it not being raised since 2009.



Indicate to me where it remained fairly constant over the years.

It's the orange line... /facepalm You see where it started out low, but since 1950 it's been pretty much between $6 and $8 for 65 years? yeah, that one.

There's only been a handful of years out of those 65 years where it's been more than it is today.

[Glorious Leader]

It's like you aren't even reading what you are quoting. The dude is saying that he thinks it should be $20, not that it was ever the equivalent (ie. adjusted for inflation) anywhere close to $20

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It's the orange line... /facepalm You see where it started out low, but since 1950 it's been pretty much between $6 and $8 for 65 years? yeah, that one.

There's only been a handful of years out of those 65 years where it's been more than it is today.

Yes thats his opinion and he makea an argument whats not his opinion and is simple fact is literally the first paragraph.

America’s minimum wage was raised to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009. It’s still there. Unlike almost all other federal benchmarks, the minimum wage is not updated for inflation.

[Ragedaug]

See how it hasn't kept up with inflation? I know, complicated shit.

It's above inflation...it started out at less than $4. Now it's more than $7. So that means it's "more". If it were $3.40 or less today, then that would mean it's "less".

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Yes thats his opinion and he makea an argument whats not his opinion and is simple fact is literally the first paragraph.

Except that the fact is that it's above inflation. You can't just say white is now blue and it's true 'cause you can link it on the internet. Facts are facts. It started out as a quarter and now is $7.25. That's almost double the rate inflation. Double as in "more".

[Mohangz]

You can easily live off minimum wage, its call get room mates you don't have to live in a 1 bedroom apartment there is tons of things people think they "need" in reality they just want them, been there done that, if you're 30 years old working for min wage sorry your ether a low iq person or you made bad life choices not my problem.

Human society has always been unfair and always will be no one willing gives up wealth and power to "better" society its simply goes against everything in our biology the sooner you accept this and better yourself and learn skills and stop crying about shit you have zero control over you will be a a lot happier and better off

[Ragedaug]

Adorables. If it actually kept up with inflation over the entire history you wouldn't see the current minimum wage as lower than the highest point on the graph. The fact that it is worth less than it was 50 years ago means *gasp* it hasn't kept up with inflation. I know, complicated shit.

It's above where it was 60 years ago so it beating inflation *double-gasp!!* This poop is getting more complicated by the minute!!!

As a matter of fact the current minimum wage is beating inflation from 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 70 years ago, AND 80 years ago.

[Malkiah]

Human society has always been unfair and always will be no one willing gives up wealth and power to "better" society its simply goes against everything in our biology the sooner you accept this and better yourself and learn skills and stop crying about shit you have zero control over you will be a a lot happier and better off

"human society has always been unfair so have a shit life and be happy with it" is a great sound byte, but when you take it to its logical conclusion you start having some pretty massive problems.

the entire purpose of society (and indeed civilization itself) is just an expanded herd concept: several individuals banding together and agreeing to pool resources so that everyone collectively has more than they could acquire on their own.
the world as it stands has basically removed the capability for most individuals to go all lone wolf (between freely available land and resources on which go to be a hermit, and the access to the basic skills needed to do such a thing), so you're left with either sharing with the group and everyone being better off, or denying certain members of the group access to resources and yet still expecting them to live by the collective rules.

if you're not willing to give the proles access to a first world society life with only a reasonable effort, why should the proles give you access to not being murdered in the fucking face and having your shit stolen?
this is something the upper class (or those in the lower classes that have deluded themselves into thinking that any day now they're going to win the lottery, so they're really rich people who just don't have the money yet) doesn't seem to grasp, and is pretty fortunate that the lower class doesn't grasp it either: you're only rich because "the people" allow you to be, and everything you have is predicated on the masses deciding to abide by the social contract.

the french revolution was only a couple hundred years ago, and while we're certainly not at that level of social inequality in the modern first world, there IS a point at which the teeming masses will just go "you know what? fuck this" and start cutting rich people's heads off.
the issue of minimum wage and social mobility isn't just some liberal preoccupation with something as paltry as "human decency," it's fundamentally about the stability of society itself.

[blankfaced]

It's like you aren't even reading what you are quoting. The dude is saying that he thinks it should be $20, not that it was ever the equivalent (ie. adjusted for inflation) anywhere close to $20

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It's the orange line... /facepalm You see where it started out low, but since 1950 it's been pretty much between $6 and $8 for 65 years? yeah, that one.

There's only been a handful of years out of those 65 years where it's been more than it is today.

If it were keeping up with inflation both lines would be going upward and not just the one (the actual amount is going up, but the amount inflated isn't.) So really minimum wage doesn't go anywhere near as far as it did when it first was introduced.

[Ragedaug]

If it were keeping up with inflation both lines would be going upward and not just the one (the actual amount is going up, but the amount inflated isn't.) So really minimum wage doesn't go anywhere near as far as it did when it first was introduced.

The top line indicates the value of minimum wage in 2014 dollars. So the fact that it's going up shows up that it's beating inflation. The bottom line represents the actual dollar value of minimum wage.

If the line were flat it would mean the value of minimum wage exactly follows inflation. If it comes down, like it did going into the 80's that means it is not keeping up with inflation. But overall, there is a slight increase to the top line which means it is outpacing inflation overall.

So when it first started in 1938, minimum wage was set to .25 cents. That's equivalent to someone being paid $3.45 an hour, today. So if minimum wage followed inflation exactly it would be at $3.45. But instead the minimum wage is nearly double the rate of inflation.

[PosPosPos]

The top line indicates the value of minimum wage in 2014 dollars. So the fact that it's going up shows up that it's beating inflation. The bottom line represents the actual dollar value of minimum wage.

If the line were flat it would mean the value of minimum wage exactly follows inflation. If it comes down, like it did going into the 80's that means it is not keeping up with inflation. But overall, there is a slight increase to the top line which means it is outpacing inflation overall.

So when it first started in 1938, minimum wage was set to .25 cents. That's equivalent to someone being paid $3.45 an hour, today. So if minimum wage followed inflation exactly it would be at $3.45. But instead the minimum wage is nearly double the rate of inflation.

Do you know what proportions are?

Seems to me like you don't.

The proportion of inflation to minimum wage gone down, not up, the difference is exactly what you are not supposed to look at if you have had the slightest bit of understanding of economics. /slowclap

[Ragedaug]

Do you know what proportions are?

Seems to me like you don't.

The proportion of inflation to minimum wage gone down, not up, the difference is exactly what you are not supposed to look at if you have had the slightest bit of understanding of economics. /slowclap

holy crap. I don't know if there are just a bunch of trolls or you all just don't get it. Minimum wage started at .25 cents. yes? .25 cents in 1938 is worth $3.45 today when adjusted for inflation. yes?

So if minimum wage followed inflation exactly, then minimum wage today would be $3.45. It's really not that hard.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Buy yourself a van and live in it.

Down by the river?

[araine]

holy crap. I don't know if there are just a bunch of trolls or you all just don't get it. Minimum wage started at .25 cents. yes? .25 cents in 1938 is worth $3.45 today when adjusted for inflation. yes?

So if minimum wage followed inflation exactly, then minimum wage today would be $3.45. It's really not that hard.

And this doesnt factor in the cost of living increases that far far far far outweight the inflation, college education cost is up 400% in just a few decades alone healthcare cost same thing due to the capitalist greed

[Ragedaug]

And this doesnt factor in the cost of living increases that far far far far outweight the inflation, college education cost is up 400% in just a few decades alone healthcare cost same thing due to the capitalist greed

Cost of Living Comparison:

1938 - $0.25
2016 - $4.27

You have no point.

You also forgot all the Gov't programs, assistance, and tax credits available to independent adults who earn minimum wage. Between SNAP, EITC, and Housing assistance, someone who earns $15,000 a year could get over $17,000 in Gov't assistance. So instead of a straight $4.27 equivalent, they instead get $15.38 today (and that doesn't even cover state provided healthcare & college - which you can remove from your equation)

Adjusted for Cost of Living, someone making minimum wage today could be pulling in nearly 4 times what someone could receive in 1938.

[Shadowferal]

You do know that time didn't start in the 90's..

Yup!
In the 50s and 60s you could simply work your way out of poverty on one wage...the minimum wage. Heck, up until the late 70s, working a summer job at such a wage could pay a year's worth of college tuition in most of such places.
Now people are called lazy because they have to work more than two jobs just to keep their head above water. The disconnect is unbelievable.

/palm

Ever heard of PUBLIC LIBRARIES and how there are normally representatives at homeless aids/shelters?

Most of which are closed here...already went over this.

Do you know what proportions are?

Seems to me like you don't.

The proportion of inflation to minimum wage gone down, not up, the difference is exactly what you are not supposed to look at if you have had the slightest bit of understanding of economics. /slowclap

One stat that needs to addressed is the purchasing power of the dollar. For some reason that I can't get into right now is that too many in congress (most GOP...figures) always bet against the American worker. Wall Street used to rally when the dollar went up. Now the opposite is true.

Cost of Living Comparison:

..useless without going into the purchasing power of the US Dollar.
So unless a person could buy 4x as much as he could back in 1938 then your point is pointless indeed.

$.25...should buy $4 dollars worth today. But that quarter doesn't buy anything today. Heck, if the purchasing power was as it should be today, I shouldn't have had to pay $24 to get a full tank of gas. I should have paid less than $6 instead.

[Spectral]

And this doesnt factor in the cost of living increases that far far far far outweight the inflation, college education cost is up 400% in just a few decades alone healthcare cost same thing due to the capitalist greed

College education costs are driven by over-the-top subsidies moreso than by "capitalist greed". If you disagree, you're going to have a hell of a time explaining why state university costs have risen so sharply. The story of college costs is a story of demand shock, not a story of rapacious capitalism.

[Ragedaug]

..useless without going into the purchasing power of the US Dollar.
So unless a person could buy 4x as much as he could back in 1938 then your point is pointless indeed.

$.25...should buy $4 dollars worth today. But that quarter doesn't buy anything today. Heck, if the purchasing power was as it should be today, I shouldn't have had to pay $24 to get a full tank of gas. I should have paid less than $6 instead.

You guys are completely speaking out of your rear ends. /facepalm

So in 1938 Minimum wage was $0.25. A gallon of gas in 1938 was $0.20. That means you had to work 1 hour to be able to purchase 1.25 gallons of gasoline. Fast forward to 2016, gasoline costs on average $2.46 a gallon and the minimum wage is $7.25. You can buy near 3 gallons of gas for one hour worked. This basically lines up exactly with what I was showing earlier. Folks today on minimum wage have twice the purchasing power from their wages alone than folks did in 1938, and that's not counting the additional money in Gov't welfare folks receive today, which doubles the money received, thus giving a person today 4x the spending power of someone in 1938.

[Maletalana]

Why the fuck should lower level positions grow? YOU should grow out of them, not the other way around.

Your whole post was just excellent, all of it, and well done for being a poster of what growth looks like, good on you. I just wanted to bump this concluding sentence you used, this is 100% the only answer needed for these whiny children complaining that they don't have a silver spoon.

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Working for you will not feed them in the immediate. Starvation and hunger are immediate problems these people are facing. So yes they ask you for food instead of a job and its not because theyre lazy or immoral but rather THEYRE FUCKING HUNGRY. You have to be really obtuse not.to.get this.

There's an idiom that sorta, eats this line of thinking whole.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day
Teach a man to fish and he'll feed his whole family for life

...or something like that.

[minteK917]

Hey guise in zimbabwee you can make it wit 30 cent a day. Am i doin it rite? 30 cent 4 evrybuddy.

If moving up the salaries was always the wrong answer, how come no one wants to work for industrial era wages anymore? If moving up salaries always has terrible effect, how come we allowed it before. Why not rewrite history? I bet most companies would love that too! Well, probably for a week and than when nothing is sold again, the tune might change.

[Maletalana]

Good lord I have repeated this so many times now.

MINIMUM WAGE is not meant to support a wholesome on-your-own lifestyle.

When you're a teenager, you get a minimum wage job, find a roommate, and share an apartment.

As you move up, you'll eventually earn enough to live on your own.


It's that simple....



You don't get to have
a) no education
b) no experience
c) no value to an employer other than you're a warm body

and expect to live on your own in a nice house with a car and all this other shit.

You don't deserve that.

Now is it a sucky life if you're 28 and have 2 kids with your live-in girlfriend and for some reason or another you still don't have anything past high school and still work the counter at McDonald's? Yeah man, that sucks, but the government or the system isn't responsible for you having kids and not moving up in life, that's on you pal.

[Glorious Leader]

Your whole post was just excellent, all of it, and well done for being a poster of what growth looks like, good on you. I just wanted to bump this concluding sentence you used, this is 100% the only answer needed for these whiny children complaining that they don't have a silver spoon.

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There's an idiom that sorta, eats this line of thinking whole.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day
Teach a man to fish and he'll feed his whole family for life

...or something like that.

Im aware but thats just dogmatic moralizing. The better question is what happens when you use a man as bait?