Demonic Eyebeam Build

[Deleted]

Just curious, why so many ppl go for nemesis when you could have momentum up for every single eye beam and giving it increased damage to every target it hits rather than just one?

[Littlepwny]

I agree with you. Can someone sim 3210333 please for those of who refuse to go Demons bite. How much DPS would losing Demonic appetite for DB net you in that build? If its a minor DPS loss, it would be a major QoL for me to go without bite.

The entire build works around collecting fragment to reset Eye Beam cooldown. My sim went from 474k (different gear setup than before) to 343k. This build is so bad in fact that going Fel Mastery or Fel Blades provides a significant DPS increase 21k/70k.

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Just curious, why so many ppl go for nemesis when you could have momentum up for every single eye beam and giving it increased damage to every target it hits rather than just one?

Because we are talking about fight with only a single target.

On a aoe fights, Momentum will almost always be better unless the add timers/mob-types enable the use of Nemesis on-kill buff which sounds extremely unlikely. Also, the majority of our damage is still based around the Metamorphosis buff that, at least for now, always perfectly syncs with both Chaos Blades and Nemesis.

[Fozzle]

Just curious, why so many ppl go for nemesis when you could have momentum up for every single eye beam and giving it increased damage to every target it hits rather than just one?

My personal thoughts on this is that while it may come out slightly ahead using Momentum, it will be very hard to accomplish that in practice. You are already moving around to collect souls. You are already losing a GCD or two to your generator. Now you add another GCD to that for momentum uptime, and that is a lot of maintenance to squeaze into a 4 second window.

[Deleted]

You use eye beam and few annihilates on that window, but with nemesis u really do use half the window collecting fragments. I do really hope this build becomes THE build, mainly because I have the helm but not the ring

[Wardonis]

I agree with you. Can someone sim 3210333 please for those of who refuse to go Demons bite. How much DPS would losing Demonic appetite for DB net you in that build? If its a minor DPS loss, it would be a major QoL for me to go without bite.

it will suck. you need demonic appetite to reduce the CD on eyebeam.

From what i've been reading there is a lot of misunderstanding. this build required demonic appetite to function effectively. if you are parsing better without it you are not doing the rotation properly. You CANNOT stand still while using this build. each time you proc a soul fragment you pick it up. it reduces the CD on eyebeam by 5 seconds per. you should be able to get a minimum of 56 seconds on meta with decent crit. you should have about 75% up time on meta over a 5 minute fight. if you arn't, you're not doing it right. follow the rotation and the explanation i laid out in the 1st post. I've found this build also favors Crit>mastery>>>haste>>>vers. the dps is on par with the fel blade build which is the highest parse, the only issues come from the fact while the fel blade build maintains moderate dps and has an insanely high burst the demonic eyebeam build sustains high dps with no real burst outside of nemesis. at 880 gear both are within 30k of each other. I'm going to expand on the first post some more

Me and Wardonis did some tests and sims on the ptr last week (or 2 weeks?, anywho I sadly lost the numbers) ago, the demonic build is definitely legit and really fun to play, it can blow up adds pretty fast and has a lot of burst aoe on a very low cd. Dps wise it was really close, should give it a try!

I actually adjusted some stuff and broke 410k ST. but that is with both BiS legendaries and the 2pc set (no gloves) +trinket
http://i.imgur.com/HrFCb3w.jpg notice how low my crit is (I still have a lot of verse gear because my toon was a tank on live)
with the same build I was able to sustain 900k over 5 min in aoe on the imp pack target dummys

[Kxero]

So should we start farming HoV for Meta Fel Relics? or in this case is it better to have Chaos Strike Relics?

PS: even without BiS legendaries, how does this fair vs the other builds? I am part of the prydaz club and have the chest legendary, but still love the idea behind this build (starting to practice with Demonic Apetite on live for dungeons) but obviously don't want to gimp my raid mates if it's not worth it without legendaries (or the relics)

[Deleted]

Btw one thing I am not seeing mentioned is that this build is essentially undying because of the massive meta uptime and soul rending.

Probably because he majority will be using netherwalk next patch. That is to say that 30% leech is nothing to be laughed at

[Wardonis]

Probably because he majority will be using netherwalk next patch. That is to say that 30% leech is nothing to be laughed at

I could swear it's still 70% on the ptr, really that entire talent line is viable with this build but the amount of self healing from soul rending is insane. I soloed elites that tanks have a tough time soloing. and in raids and mythics it's even better. that said, demonic appetite does still generate a lot of self healing.

So should we start farming HoV for Meta Fel Relics? or in this case is it better to have Chaos Strike Relics?

PS: even without BiS legendaries, how does this fair vs the other builds? I am part of the prydaz club and have the chest legendary, but still love the idea behind this build (starting to practice with Demonic Apetite on live for dungeons) but obviously don't want to gimp my raid mates if it's not worth it without legendaries (or the relics)

on live right now demonic appetite has a 15% proc chance with 7.1.5 it will be 25%, combine that with the new blind fury which generates fury when you cast eyebeam and the new demonic which has the extended demon form. and thats what makes it work. without the bis legendaries it should still net you respectible dps. Damage wise, It seems to be on par with the fel blade build that Kayusa has outlined in a seperate thread, it falls short only in that it lacks burst. It is sustained high dps. meaning on fights with a lot of down time it won't perform as well as the fel blade build. but on fights with extended up time it could possibly outperform it. with soul rending and the amount of up time you have on demon form the sustainability is real and insane. when I was doing mythic +10 on the ptr I was doing more than triple the healing to myself than I received from the healer.

relic wise i'd say: unleashed demons > chaos vision > critical chaos > overwhelming power > contained fury > demon rage

[Deleted]

on live right now demonic appetite has a 15% proc chance with 7.1.5 it will be 25%

No, demonic appetite has a 15 sec ICD on live. Which means its an enourmous buff.

The "demonic" build is whats currently looking to be the best with its insane mastery scaling. with the exception that you use chaos blades instead of demonic, because chaos blades is OP

[Wardonis]

No, demonic appetite has a 15 sec ICD on live. Which means its an enourmous buff.

The "demonic" build is whats currently looking to be the best with its insane mastery scaling. with the exception that you use chaos blades instead of demonic, because chaos blades is OP

you might switch to chaos blades if you need burst for a fight that lasts less than a minute, but in a raid fight, demonic will destroy chaos blades 20-30% dps boost for 24 seconds every 5 minutes; won't come close to spending 3 min 30 seconds as a demon every 5 min.

and on live it does not have a 15 sec ICD, I see it proc quite often, if it has an icd it's no more than 3 seconds. it does however have a 15% proc chance on live.

[Phookah]

you might switch to chaos blades if you need burst for a fight that lasts less than a minute, but in a raid fight, demonic will destroy chaos blades 20-30% dps boost for 24 seconds every 5 minutes; won't come close to spending 3 min 30 seconds as a demon every 5 min.

and on live it does not have a 15 sec ICD, I see it proc quite often, if it has an icd it's no more than 3 seconds. it does however have a 15% proc chance on live.

You sure about that? Wowhead lists it with a 15 sec ICD too.

[Deleted]

relic wise i'd say: unleashed demons > chaos vision > critical chaos > overwhelming power > contained fury > demon rage

Chaos Vision is definitely not as high, even in m+ it rarely is above 15% total damage, and that's with the legendary helmet equipped. Critical chaos on the other hand will be very strong due to being at very least 60% of your total damage on ST and not that much behind while on AoE due to Chaos Cleave.
Unleashed Demons is rather unreliable, and the dps gain is difficult to measure, since it will be useless if you gained no meta uptime from it.

I'd say Overwhelming Power could be good for m+, Critical Chaos will be the absolute best and the rest is pretty much the same.

[Wardonis]

Chaos Vision is definitely not as high, even in m+ it rarely is above 15% total damage, and that's with the legendary helmet equipped. Critical chaos on the other hand will be very strong due to being at very least 60% of your total damage on ST and not that much behind while on AoE due to Chaos Cleave.
Unleashed Demons is rather unreliable, and the dps gain is difficult to measure, since it will be useless if you gained no meta uptime from it.

I'd say Overwhelming Power could be good for m+, Critical Chaos will be the absolute best and the rest is pretty much the same.

you have a point. my thoughts wen't like this. critical chaos should be better IF you have high crit, 40%-45% or more. But, You gain no benefit from the trait if you don't crit. where as with eyebeam, your doing very heavy damage, (it hits harder than chaos strike), you are doing this damage every 15 seconds on average and it's guaranteed to crit so you double dip on mastery. if you have 20%-30% or more on mastery I think it would pull ahead.

http://imgur.com/HrFCb3w look at this parse here, only 36% crit, the paperdoll shows 29% but thats before agility and the +5% crit are accounted for I think. honestly not sure. with higher crit there would be more damage on annihilate and chaos strike. in that parse I have 3 critical chaos relics. at lower gear levels the chaos vision would be better, but once you start hitting 30% it seems to fall off. i'll swap it. In AOE you use eyebeam every 8 seconds, the moment you drop out of demon form you go strait back into it. In aoe eyebeam has no cooldown. with the head legendary you can spam eyebeam back to back to back.

You sure about that? Wowhead lists it with a 15 sec ICD too.

I've seen it proc on live fairly regularly, I honestly can't say for sure without extensive testing but since it's changing i'm not going to bother. on ptr it defenatly has no ICD, I've procced 4 in a row more then a few times

[kaelleria]

you have a point. my thoughts wen't like this. critical chaos should be better IF you have high crit, 40%-45% or more. But, You gain no benefit from the trait if you don't crit. where as with eyebeam, your doing very heavy damage, (it hits harder than chaos strike), you are doing this damage every 15 seconds on average and it's guaranteed to crit so you double dip on mastery. if you have 20%-30% or more on mastery I think it would pull ahead.

http://imgur.com/HrFCb3w look at this parse here, only 36% crit, the paperdoll shows 29% but thats before agility and the +5% crit are accounted for I think. honestly not sure. with higher crit there would be more damage on annihilate and chaos strike. in that parse I have 3 critical chaos relics. at lower gear levels the chaos vision would be better, but once you start hitting 30% it seems to fall off. i'll swap it. In AOE you use eyebeam every 8 seconds, the moment you drop out of demon form you go strait back into it. In aoe eyebeam has no cooldown. with the head legendary you can spam eyebeam back to back to back.



I've seen it proc on live fairly regularly, I honestly can't say for sure without extensive testing but since it's changing i'm not going to bother. on ptr it defenatly has no ICD, I've procced 4 in a row more then a few times

Crit is suppressed by higher lvl mobs such as bosses and dungeon mobs.

[Khiyone]

Crit is suppressed by higher lvl mobs such as bosses and dungeon mobs.

No, this was removed in Legion.

[Littlepwny]

Unleashed Demons is rather unreliable, and the dps gain is difficult to measure, since it will be useless if you gained no meta uptime from it.

That is absolutely true in current patch.

But Unleashed Demons is going to be the best once we go into Nighthold. With Delusion of Grandeur and/or Covergence, we will be able to reduce the cooldown to 2 mins (maybe less) which will make it sync with Chaos Blades all the time or even further reduce the cooldown. As for M+, we will be able to use it on CD similar to how Ret Paladins use their Crusade all the time.

I really can't see how anything will be able to compete with it.

[Wardonis]

That is absolutely true in current patch.

But Unleashed Demons is going to be the best once we go into Nighthold. With Delusion of Grandeur and/or Covergence, we will be able to reduce the cooldown to 2 mins (maybe less) which will make it sync with Chaos Blades all the time or even further reduce the cooldown. As for M+, we will be able to use it on CD similar to how Ret Paladins use their Crusade all the time.

I really can't see how anything will be able to compete with it.

chaos blade burst isn't going to be better than the shear amount of time you can stay in demonform with demonic

[Deleted]

chaos blade burst isn't going to be better than the shear amount of time you can stay in demonform with demonic

Meta isn't that fantastic of a dps gain you know? Chaos blades is not 20-25% more damage since we will stack mastery it will be more like 40-50% damage.
Being in meta when your nemesis isnt up isnt going to net you much damage. Eye beam is also a dps loss on ST so you don't actually gain that much from demonic in terms of dps.

Sim it yourself if you want to be sure, but demonic is gonna stay a meme or something used to cheese a certain mechanic with the 100% leech.

[Wardonis]

Meta isn't that fantastic of a dps gain you know? Chaos blades is not 20-25% more damage since we will stack mastery it will be more like 40-50% damage.
Being in meta when your nemesis isnt up isnt going to net you much damage. Eye beam is also a dps loss on ST so you don't actually gain that much from demonic in terms of dps.

Sim it yourself if you want to be sure, but demonic is gonna stay a meme or something used to cheese a certain mechanic with the 100% leech.

demonic doesn't sim properly, the sim doesn't know how to use demonic appetite properly. with demonic you can spend more than the full 1 min of Nemesis in demon form. chaos blades just doesn't last long enough. over a 5 minute fight your looking at 24 seconds at +45% vs 3 min 30 seconds in demon form. You need to keep in mind how hard annihilate hits for. it's 85-90% stronger than chaos strike. yes with chaos blades and momentum you still have meta, and you can net some sizable burst. it's much more suited to pvp. in raids with long fights or chain pulled groups there is no question demonic wins out. and in aoe with 4+ mobs, such as mythic+9 chain pulls or lower it's literally 100% up time on demon form. combine that with the healing you get from soul rending and you are fully sustainable as long as you don't do anything stupid.

[Jorach]

over a 5 minute fight your looking at 24 seconds

its 36 seconds @ a 5 min fight