[Balance] Legion Discussion

[xtramuscle]

So why are you blaming it on the class when it is the legendarys? All your first post was about how boomkins need buffs and % scaling and blah blah blah. So excuse me for not thinking you were talking about legendarys

Because on a multi dot fight, again - without you sharing logs -I'd guess 40%+ of your damage was from starsurge. That isn't a dot class doing well on a multidot fight, that's just you doing sick single target damage with increased AP from shooting stars and the synergy between two good legendaries.

Which just outlines the faults in the spec, which have been bandaid-ed by good legendaries, but with those being nerfed are you as confident for nighthold when we hear things like our DH (who's already top by a mile without his bis legendary) saying things like 'we're getting an 18% increase in 7.1.5'.

[Deleted]

Trouble is, melee in particular do the same amount of AOE in a 8 second window as we do in 1 minute, and then theirs is ready again. So while they don't have 'sustained' aoe, in a 6 minute cycle the do the same damage as us. Now if we can only hit the the mobs for the same time as them, it leaves us doing a fraction of their damage.

Either we need ..dare I say it .. Hurricane or something for snap multi target aoe without dot ramp up. Or our top end needs to be higher, so on sustained aoe we actually pull ahead of those with massive burst.

I mean, if the AOE burst is really needed you go fury of elune/warrior of elune which is also getting a buff.

All classes are different our sustained aoe is decent, we don´t burst well but we can in short windows.

I think the bigger issue here is our overall raid damage, our "max" right now is not OP but with both good legendaries our ST is competitive and that is getting nerfed, while the class is getting a small buff, that means our "max" st is still going down.

I would assume we will be getting a bigger buff that the 4% because if we get only the 4% I think a lot of druids without 2 good legendaries will look really bad in raiding.

- - - Updated - - -

With 7.1.5 on the background downloader, and balance still being left out of the patch notes, what is keeping you other guys going?

I´ll tell you, the fact that I have a priest with 2 dps legendaries.

I don´t perticularly want to reroll, but yeah, if they don´t fix boomkin damage thats an option im lucky to have.

[Deleted]

How about stop trying to balance classes around legendaries, thank you shit balance team

This is coming from a guy with 2 bis legendaries BTW, system still complete shit

I'd be happy if they were completely removed tbh

[Deleted]

How about stop trying to balance classes around legendaries, thank you shit balance team

This is coming from a guy with 2 bis legendaries BTW, system still complete shit

I'd be happy if they were completely removed tbh

If they would remove both legendaries we all could as well re-roll I think we need at least one to not be bottom and need two of them to have a chance to try for the top spot. We (as guild) don't have top class Shadow Priest but I am still struggling to beat Enh Shammy and Ferals even if I play really well and I have both legendaries. Sure I am probably not as good as they are but I will need to see how our buff will compensate compared to Legendaries nerf. And I do agree with the need for a nerf. It's not fair on other boomkins to be so much behind in DPS if their RNG was bad ....

[Deleted]

Does anybody know how are we suppose to play on two stacked targets with the helm? I can't decide whether starfalling or doing the single target rotation with the increased AP from SS is better, and as simcraft doesn't simulate the proper rotation with the helm it's not really helpful :/

[Klapi]

Does anybody know how are we suppose to play on two stacked targets with the helm? I can't decide whether starfalling or doing the single target rotation with the increased AP from SS is better, and as simcraft doesn't simulate the proper rotation with the helm it's not really helpful :/

You do single target rotation on 2 targets and maintain dots on both.

[Frostyfire14]

I need an opinion. I'm considering going Tauren (from Troll), but sim's show it a less than 2k dps loss. Someone talk me out of me min/maxing my semi-hardcore playstyle. :/

[Lahis]

I need an opinion. I'm considering going Tauren (from Troll), but sim's show it a less than 2k dps loss. Someone talk me out of me min/maxing my semi-hardcore playstyle. :/

You now do 450k* DPS. After going bovine you'll do 448k DPS.

That's less than 0.5% difference.

*numbers pulled out from my ass

[joltcola1234]

Hey there!

Im casually playing 2 nights a week and my guild is currently 7/7 mythic and 3/3 hc.

I´ve been fortunate to get both the helm and the ring which ofcourse is a major boost and even though im not always topping the meters i do normally push around 460-480k dps on st fights (Nythendra and Guarm). We do ofcourse lack dps compared to melee but thats irrelevant and i do normally beat most ranged in our guild except from SPriests. The AOE damage and even the cleave is already addresed in this thread so I will not go on with that.

I do however welcome the nerf of the legendarys since they are more or less mandatory to be viable and I think in the end this will actually fix a broken class. All the changes might not be set in stone right now but I´m still positive for Nightold. They will most likely adress all the problems by the time my guild are doing it in Mythic.

And to be fair! if you are not aiming for the world first there will be a place for us in our guild. I´ve been playing Balance since late WOTLK and will not stop doing it because of this. I play my Druid because i like the lore and class itself not to top the metres all the time even though its fun.

Let´s stay possitive(at leas for a while)

I appreciate being positive, but it's not OK to "balance" legendary items, which results in a 4% DPS loss with nothing to compensate. This might be OK if we were at the top of the meters, but we are at the bottom. This change balances moonkins against other moonkins, and the few moonkins that are competitive now end up being non-competitive (from a high end perspective), while the moonkins at the lower end of the spectrum just continue to be at the lower end of the spectrum.

I fail to see how this puts us in any kind of better place then we are now. It results in a positive change for moonkins against other moonkins, but in the overall group of classes it still leaves us undesirable in general. The current changes also do nothing to address the biggest issues with our class, which is mostly burst AoE. Blizzard seems to be content with us being a somewhat strong sustained AoE, unfortunately sustained AoE isn't something that's needed, especially for mythic+. If any class can't support a strong burst AoE then we just aren't going to be wanted for mythic+. Blizzard has made mythic+ a progressive route on par with raiding, yet they don't seem to care about balancing anything around that progression. Yes, some moonkins will push high level mythic+, just like some ferals will, but that's not good enough honestly. It's important that we be viewed as competitive, and that we are competitive in general, or it just doesn't work.

I don't have any plans not to play moonkin. I have Emerald Dreamcatcher and I also have an IFE, so my raid performance remains competitive with my guild, though still not number 1. I also greatly enjoy the moonkin play style, however there's just noway I can compete in mythic+ therefore I haven't even bothered doing them for the most part this expansion. I don't understand the line of thinking that's going into the class recently, it simply doesn't make any sense to me.

[Myztikrice]

Because you absolutely can compete with the proper spec, aoe trinkets, and playstyle in Mythic+, and since gear caps out at 12 pushing high Mythic+s is for bragging rights not progression.

[Deleted]

I'm not gonna be home until the 3rd, so if you still want i'll give you a properly in depth conparison then, but really, at least on heroic ursoc you should be able to get away with just the one, maybe two recasts of dots. Its different on mythic with dotting the add, but myhic is a different fight.

Also, depending on your haste level, the SSx2 > LSx2 rotation may only be able to be used durig lust. With a slightly high haste level i think you can reach it just with the bonus haste during incarn, but only towards the end, and maybe only with berserking, so it is qyite probably a dps loss to do it then. Woth lust however, its a massive dps increase over LS + SW between SS.

Charge at ranged first does sound honestly stupid to me, as far as i'm aware the standard is melee only soak the first 2 cacophonys, then take the first charge, and by the time thats all over the boss is now next to ranged for the next charge so you shouldn't have to move. Obviously your group was doing it differently, and adopting the more standard style should increase your dps somewhat hugely. Another advantage of taking even charges with IFE is that incarn line up with the odd number charges, which shreds your dps when theres 5-6 seconds of not being able to cast (if you get targeted i just call for bop and stand in the melee group - less movement)

If it helps we always have the melee charges going infront of the boss, and the ranged charges to the middle to further reduce movement for ranged, as you just have to track sideways to keep in cacophony range, but dont have to keep moving between positions for charge.

[Hellshout]

So I noticed something on the moon spells a couple of times. Didn't get to record them, but I'll try to catch it somehow.
It happened when I have Full Moon and 3 charges of Moon(happened differently also, but don't recall). The moon casting was delayed a lot, but when I did finally cast all 3 moon spells, I got a Full Moon, followed by New Moon and then New Moon again. I confirmed it two times, first the AsP bar showed only 10 gain, and I thought it was a mistake and second time i looked at the moon spells and I did cast 2 New Moons. I think the first time I saw the AsP thingy was because I was expecting more AsP and I couldn't cast SS.
Anyone else stumbled upon this?

[Adramelch]

So I noticed something on the moon spells a couple of times. Didn't get to record them, but I'll try to catch it somehow.
It happened when I have Full Moon and 3 charges of Moon(happened differently also, but don't recall). The moon casting was delayed a lot, but when I did finally cast all 3 moon spells, I got a Full Moon, followed by New Moon and then New Moon again. I confirmed it two times, first the AsP bar showed only 10 gain, and I thought it was a mistake and second time i looked at the moon spells and I did cast 2 New Moons. I think the first time I saw the AsP thingy was because I was expecting more AsP and I couldn't cast SS.
Anyone else stumbled upon this?

It happens to several people, but in the end it actually ends up being a Half Moon (20 AsP, the cast time and the dmg) even though it shows as if it's not. At least that's always been the case for me. The small delay between Full Moon and New Moon is to prevent a bug where you could chain cast 2 Full Moons, iirc.

[Cadaaga]

It happens when you try to queue up half moon too quickly before the new moon cast finishes because the cast often gets under the gcd you can queue up a second one before the tooltip switches over to half moon.

[Deleted]

I'm not gonna be home until the 3rd, ......
If it helps we always have the melee charges going infront of the boss, and the ranged charges to the middle to further reduce movement for ranged, as you just have to track sideways to keep in cacophony range, but dont have to keep moving between positions for charge.

Thanks again, we doing Heroic Clear tomorrow so we will try that and I am sure it will make a difference

[Zan15]

tick tock..goes the clock.

7 more days till patch.

[MV Kaa]

tick tock..goes the clock.

7 more days till patch.

If there isnt an update by tonight, i dont think there will be any more changes :/

[Gemini Soul]

If there isnt an update by tonight, i dont think there will be any more changes :/

They just got back in the office today, they might push changes tomorrow thou.

[paror]

They just got back in the office today, they might push changes tomorrow thou.

In before: We did not had the time to make the changes blablabal wait till 7.2..

[MV Kaa]

In before: We did not had the time to make the changes blablabal wait till 7.2..

Its this kind of complaining that makes me happy when we dont get buffs