Watcher knew about Legion issues, did nothing about it

[styil]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/4...k-legendaries/

Blue tracker post from the Legion Alpha/Beta months before launch. Here is just one example of many from the Legion Alpha/Beta that they simply chose to do nothing about. In post #41 above, Watcher seems to be replying to a poster who is unhappy about the large variation in raw power offered by the legendaries, and offers this response:

I also fully understand that a decent chunk of the posters here might prefer Mythic raiding if it gear didn't matter at all and success were only a product of skill and time investment, and thus will hate this. But please, humor me, and let's keep the thread focused on items themselves. Which ones seem like they have the most potential to break balance? Which seem underwhelming, such that you'd be disappointed at getting them instead of one of the others?

It's one thing to simply make a mistake and get a system wrong. But to intentionally release a subpar game system just to meet a deadline is another thing entirely. This shows the lack of Blizzard quality when under pressure. They were willing to let issues like this slide just to get the product out as soon as possible even if it means sacrificing the quality of the product.

And the cherry on top? His dismissive nature of the concerns when he asks us to "humor" him. Maybe he'll understand the value of player feedback when he's dismissed.

[s_bushido]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry...

The lack of quality with blizzard?!

Do you even realise how much polish and balance you get out of the box on any blizzard game vs. everyone else out there?!

I agree that some things are designed a bit poorly, but dear god it's like the millionth thing out of 999.999 that work brilliantly while others can't even get 20 right.

This elitist shit that's going on in wow since years is actually proof of that.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[Deleted]

I'm sorry...

The lack of quality with blizzard?!

Do you even realise how much polish and balance you get out of the box on any blizzard game vs. everyone else out there?!

I agree that some things are designed a bit poorly, but dear god it's like the millionth thing out of 999.999 that work brilliantly while others can't even get 20 right.

This elitist shit that's going on in wow since years is actually proof of that.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Great sum of excuses. Actually doesn't matter since even most P2Win Asian RPGs have better balance than WoW nowadays.

[EliWallach]

"Just to meet a deadline" is not such a trivial thing when you have to answer to a VP who's demanding that you maintain cost and schedule. The days of not releasing content until it's ready have long since departed. Time is money, friend.

[NPI]

Blizzard *had* quality, but now it seems they have no QA at all. I mean bugs are not fixed even after 2 years (tot video before tortos, panda blue gem goes to enchanting bag), jc bag does not working with legion gems, specs are badly undertuned, etc.

[Deleted]

Great sum of excuses. Actually doesn't matter since even most P2Win Asian RPGs have better balance than WoW nowadays.

You do realize pay2win describes a perfect imbalance, but yeah be my guest go play those then and let me know how long that works for you.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[PPHH]

Great sum of excuses. Actually doesn't matter since even most P2Win Asian RPGs have better balance than WoW nowadays.

Then play that? Pretty simple.

[kamuimac]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/4...k-legendaries/

Blue tracker post from the Legion Alpha/Beta months before launch. Here is just one example of many from the Legion Alpha/Beta that they simply chose to do nothing about. In post #41 above, Watcher seems to be replying to a poster who is unhappy about the large variation in raw power offered by the legendaries, and offers this response:


It's one thing to simply make a mistake and get a system wrong. But to intentionally release a subpar game system just to meet a deadline is another thing entirely. This shows the lack of Blizzard quality when under pressure. They were willing to let issues like this slide just to get the product out as soon as possible even if it means sacrificing the quality of the product.

And the cherry on top? His dismissive nature of the concerns when he asks us to "humor" him. Maybe he'll understand the value of player feedback when he's dismissed.

they did nothing because its non issue for 99 % of playerbase who like them - its only issue for few ocd posters on forums who simply have to be bis on day 1 of expansion or they will get mentaly and physicaly sick .

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Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

0 - most players dont raid withc douchebags who sit them out based on orange drops.

"Just to meet a deadline" is not such a trivial thing when you have to answer to a VP who's demanding that you maintain cost and schedule. The days of not releasing content until it's ready have long since departed. Time is money, friend.

yes but to understand it people would have to experience it themselves - and while serving fries in mcdonalds or at entry level position jobs they will never encounter such problems.

[Usernameforforums]

What i got from the first part of the quote is would you rather raid where skill is 100% top notch, non rewarding, and done only once because of no rewards or would you rather have a balance of skill/gear, get rewarded gear, and run the raid more time because rewards and character progression.

The legendaries aren't all that bad as people make it out to be. Some have good stats for certain classes. Yeah you want the highest damage/mitigation/healing legendaries that you can get but just as in real life you can't have it all.

[4dahorde]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

Pretty much this. While some legendaries are sub par, the number of people who were supposedly sat because of legendaries is probably EXTREMELY small. This is nothing but an example of the newest tactic players are trying to use to get attention to their beliefs. If they can convince other players, or the developers, that they are not able to play the game for whatever reason, then they will automatically change things.

This game is massive, and there will likely be things that don't work properly (bugs, etc) people grab ahold of a few things and make HUGE deals about them, when in actuality, they are rather minor. It is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to fully "balance' everything in this game, but people expect them to be able to balance everything to within .05% of something else, or they scream about balance. If someone has something they want, and they don't have it, they scream until they can have it. Like a bunch of children.

Then people say "If we don't say something about it, then it will never get changed". Sadly, MOST things people complain about, don't need 'fixed'. It is nothing more than an opinion on how they think the game should work.

Over all, if you or your raid group is sitting people because they don't have a certain legebdary, the problem is not with the system, it's with you. If you need that ONE or TWO people with a certain piece of gear to kill a boss, the problem is not with the system, the problem is your raid group sucks. You can easily kill these bosses without legendaries if the group works well together, and follows mechanics.

FFS people, stop bitching about everything in this game, the game is NOT in that bad a shape as you all make it out to be. Just because you don't like something, or the way it was designed, does not make it 'wrong' and need 'fixed'. The amount of bullshit whining because something 'is not fair' is getting out of hand. Life isn't fair, something in a video game are also not fair, get over it and stop this "I didn't get what I want, when I wanted it, so lets go complain" attitude.

[Pull My Finger]

Quite a pathetic whine post, I must say.

The whole idea of whining about legedaries not being 100% identical in performance and output is ridiculous. It just shows how totally off the track the whiners are with their whole mindset. You're obsessing over nonsense. Trust me on this. It's in your head. Legendaries aren't standing in your way and preventing you from being able to engage and enjoy yourself.

But wow. There you are now, in all your pain, you've been sifting through beta blueposts and now you found a random one to get hung up about. This evil man and his machinations, oh woes.

Stop being paranoid. Don't you realize that the phrase "humor me" means something different than what you seem to have interpreted it as? You might wanna look that one up. Seriously.

Finally, STOP WHINING. Legendaries shouldn't be all the same, they shouldn't be perfectly balanced, they shouldn't be mirrored, and you should learn to accept and enjoy the variety. There's a wisdom and maturity that comes with that and you'll never gonna get there as long as you're pigeonholing yourself in this ridiculous whiny way of thinking. Don't be your own enemy.

[Taeldorian]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

I definitely hope this is sarcasm. I feel like it is.

Even the top guilds in the world said they didn't bench anyone due to bad legendaries. I've never seen a single pug even require a legendary and most of the top US 20 guilds I've seen recruit don't require one either. They don't even ask how many you've got.

[Trapped]

Pretty much this. While some legendaries are sub par, the number of people who were supposedly sat because of legendaries is probably EXTREMELY small.

That's the thing, we have no data on the number of players who were benched for players with better legendaries. Did it come up? I 100% believe it did. The question is, at what percentage does it become a problem? People are benched all the time for poor performance, poor attendance, etc. so if some guild is going into Mythic and they have to sit 1 or 2 people out on any given night, are you going to bring Mage1 who does 400k dps because he has 2 good legendaries or Mage2 who does 350k dps because he has Prydaz and Sephuz?

Either way, this shouldn't have been a problem to begin with. Blizzard made a supposedly rewarding system which makes people get unwanted items, and then gives them a time penalty for it, for each one they get.

TL;DR: If an orange item pops up in your loot window, you should 100% be excited about it. If you're not, then it's a bad system.

[Deleted]

Quite a pathetic whine post, I must say.

The whole idea of whining about legedaries not being 100% identical in performance and output is ridiculous. It just shows how totally off the track the whiners are with their whole mindset. You're obsessing over nonsense. Trust me on this. It's in your head. Legendaries aren't standing in your way and preventing you from being able to engage and enjoy yourself.

But wow. There you are now, in all your pain, you've been sifting through beta blueposts and now you found a random one to get hung up about. This evil man and his machinations, oh woes.

Stop being paranoid. Don't you realize that the phrase "humor me" means something different than what you seem to have interpreted it as? You might wanna look that one up. Seriously.

Finally, STOP WHINING. Legendaries shouldn't be all the same, they shouldn't be perfectly balanced, they shouldn't be mirrored, and you should learn to accept and enjoy the variety. There's a wisdom and maturity that comes with that and you'll never gonna get there as long as you're pigeonholing yourself in this ridiculous whiny way of thinking. Don't be your own enemy.

Ok, so I was about to reply to OP, but this said it all.

The legendary system is a huge pain in the ass IF you're a so called top progression raider. But those guys and gals are extreme outliers and they don't really play the same game as rest of us. They're currently killing themselves running 24/7 Mythic+, because they must. And they're loudly demanding Blizzard to implement caps to protect them from their own actions. That's just how horribly sick the top end is.

For the rest, the - let's say - 95% of the playerbase the legendaries work just fine as 'ooh cool drop, awesome!'-items. Just like they were meant to be. Just as the poster above says - it's all in your head. You are making yourself miserable over something that is just a 'fun extra thing' and doesn't affect your enjoyment of the game - at all.

Free your minds. You don't have to be miserable.

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TL;DR: If an orange item pops up in your loot window, you should 100% be excited about it. If you're not, then it's a bad system.

If you're not, there's something wrong with you.

[Super Kami Dende]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

Considering the top guild didn't even sub people out because of legendaries, Any person that missed out on raiding was either a bad player or only tried to raid with bad players.

[Deleted]

Legion is the first expansion I feel I'm falling behind every minute I lose for life. You can endlessly grind AP and titanforged gear. My time is limited and if I plan to gather some herbs I realise I have to spam mythic +. I like Legion anyway, but this preasure is a bit too stressful, lije waiting for enemy turn on hearthstone

[Shirofune]

Ok, so I was about to reply to OP, but this said it all.

The legendary system is a huge pain in the ass IF you're a so called top progression raider. But those guys and gals are extreme outliers and they don't really play the same game as rest of us. They're currently killing themselves running 24/7 Mythic+, because they must. And they're loudly demanding Blizzard to implement caps to protect them from their own actions. That's just how horribly sick the top end is.

For the rest, the - let's say - 95% of the playerbase the legendaries work just fine as 'ooh cool drop, awesome!'-items. Just like they were meant to be. Just as the poster above says - it's all in your head. You are making yourself miserable over something that is just a 'fun extra thing' and doesn't affect your enjoyment of the game - at all.

Free your minds. You don't have to be miserable.

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If you're not, there's something wrong with you.

Maybe you're being delusional. Even if mythic raiders aim for top performance and the system hurts them the most, it doesn't change the fact that:

1/ Legendary items are totally unbalanced between each other
2/ The way of getting them is pure RNG
3/ The system had at least 2 ways of making the grind harder that we know about (softcap at 4 + diminishing returns)

If you don't care about it, fine. Most people do, contrary to your beliefs.

Let me put this in another way. Imagine your salary each month was RNG. You could be winning 2k€ or you could be winning 200€. The next month you had to work 2x the time for the same chance. Would it be fine with you?

Also, lets not forget another thing. Some people are doing LFR and RHC and getting BiS legendaries, while people doing Mythic raiding and spamming M+ are getting garbage. How is exactly the system rewarding effort? Oh yeah, it is not.

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Considering the top guild didn't even sub people out because of legendaries, Any person that missed out on raiding was either a bad player or only tried to raid with bad players.

They didn't sub them out, but those people made alts to get the legendaries. So its essentially the same, the difference is the players themselves wanted to be competitive, so they did the alts.

[Deleted]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

Please feel free to find one guy. Hint:you won't find them in world first guilds. Also what a load of whine from the op

[klogaroth]

Considering the top guild didn't even sub people out because of legendaries, Any person that missed out on raiding was either a bad player or only tried to raid with bad players.

Rerolls to new characters were done based on legendaries though, and characters were rolled to fish for good legendaries.

People weren't subbed out at the top because the potential for that problem was seen a mile off and worked around. Sure there's some who don't have BiS legendaries knocking about, but there aren't many who've got no good ones at all.