[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Juliansfist]

TEB was a unique damage modifier as we more or less had proper active control over it. Hit combo is close to passive and places ability restrictions (CX would work horribly with hit combo).

TEB gave us control over high dps windows more than any other class which is particularly important on the harder progression fights. Think blast furnace in BRF WW was great for getting those immune guys down when they were vulnerable. Cenarius would also be a great fight where TEB would shine.

Basically any fight with damage boost windows or high priority targets TEB was a winner.

TEB also worked great with ppm trinkets however ppm trinkets.

TEB wasn't perfect but it was definitely more fun, active, less restrictive of game play/abilities and had room for player improvement.

Hit combo was a lazy adjustment to WW and combination with the new SEF WW was turned into another generic spec.

[Fireguard]

If SeF was viable, you would feel a part of the TEB power we lost is still there. The flexibility to use a 15s buff window whenever you needed it due to the 2 charges SEF has. I also agree with the hit combo preventing the use of Chi-ex, which was one of my top favorite parts of WoD.

I have yet to see anyone use Xuen this xpac, and some noobs who use chi-orbit in the order hall once every 2-3 weeks. Bake in hit combo for this xpac and give us some options for that tier. We can change hit combo next xpac. cool to see that xuen might be a thing. I am curious if this will change our rotation at all / give us the option to tag trash with only TP for SCK packs.

[FayrenPickpocket]

If SeF was viable, you would feel a part of the TEB power we lost is still there. The flexibility to use a 15s buff window whenever you needed it due to the 2 charges SEF has. I also agree with the hit combo preventing the use of Chi-ex, which was one of my top favorite parts of WoD.

I have yet to see anyone use Xuen this xpac, and some noobs who use chi-orbit in the order hall once every 2-3 weeks. Bake in hit combo for this xpac and give us some options for that tier. We can change hit combo next xpac. cool to see that xuen might be a thing. I am curious if this will change our rotation at all / give us the option to tag trash with only TP for SCK packs.

Well, RJW now applies the SCK stack to 5 targets making it potentially a very strong M+ talent and situationally useful in raids. Xuen' extreme buff to cleave makes him a go to for shorter based fights (or at least ones his cool down will get strong use out of. Think 45 second fights, 3:45 fights, 6:45 fights.) And for everything else, there's hit combo.

[danieltang34]

If cast RJW during FoF of course tit will interrupt the FoF channel. If you cast RJW before FoF they will both deal full damage

Well, RJW now applies the SCK stack to 5 targets making it potentially a very strong M+ talent and situationally useful in raids. Xuen' extreme buff to cleave makes him a go to for shorter based fights (or at least ones his cool down will get strong use out of. Think 45 second fights, 3:45 fights, 6:45 fights.) And for everything else, there's hit combo.

RJW looks interesting but we'll have to see how well it works out
We're already crazy on AoE and super lame on ST, it would only make it more extreme. It would also make our GCDs more than capped from the looks of it
But I can definitely see the use of it when we're pulling tons in M2-9 3 chest runs

Xuen is a less interesting competing talent, it would be the default choice if it Sims better, and might remain unused if it doesn't sim good unless you need the burst. Might be good for 4 min raid boss fights tho

[Hinalover]

Xuen is a less interesting competing talent, it would be the default choice if it Sims better, and might remain unused if it doesn't sim good unless you need the burst. Might be good for 4 min raid boss fights tho

Doing some initial sim testing, Xuen is about even with Hit Combo in 4-5 minute range. 3 minutes, Hit Combo is a bit better. So unless you are doing mythic Cenarius and blowing up the boss before the 3 minute mark, then Xuen will be comparative to Hit Combo.

[Deleted]

With SEF potentially equal with serenity for 7.1.5 i really Hope they fix IT so the clones only jump on targets that YOU are in combat with.

[nomey]

With SEF potentially equal with serenity for 7.1.5 i really Hope they fix IT so the clones only jump on targets that YOU are in combat with.

It does, the problem is some mobs are always in combat with you even when you haven't 'agrod' them yet. They would have to change the mobs I think. You can't have it only attack things you've personally hit or it would make it much slower at building SCK stacks without RJW or Xuen being used, one of which you probably don't want if you're running SEF and the other you probably don't want to use on trash just before a boss.

Edit: Actually, that might be complete nonsense. Can you stand near the mobs in arcway etc and not be in combat? Is there even a distinction between mobs that are in combat and mobs that you personally are in combat with? Who knows.

[Kithulhu]

Edit: Actually, that might be complete nonsense. Can you stand near the mobs in arcway etc and not be in combat? Is there even a distinction between mobs that are in combat and mobs that you personally are in combat with? Who knows.

There has to be, there are several API commands available to modders to work out the combat relation between a mob and a player, so the game itself (what SEF has access to -must- have the same info at least). You can even differentiate between neutral and aggressive mobs so anytime a clone hits anything you aren't personally on the threat tablet of (ie, aggroed), that must be a bug or the clone cleave/aoeing and just hitting them due to positioning.

[Deleted]

for example the mobs in arcway that fight with each other will cause volcanic under everyone even if you are not in combat with them, unlike any other mobs.

[Deleted]

Current SEF pulls more stuff when doing WQs than my huntard's barrage at least barrage is a cone, while SEF jump basically everywhere on their own initiative ;p

[Deleted]

With SEF potentially equal with serenity for 7.1.5 i really Hope they fix IT so the clones only jump on targets that YOU are in combat with.

its two packs in arcway -_-

[Deleted]

its two packs in arcway -_-

Probably interferes with some stuff in HoV as well - but that can be avoided with sensible usage.

[tru]

Yeah man mr 870 monk playing without Serenity, please enlighten me.

APM has nothing to do with difficulty besides that in simulation craft WW Monk shows right in the middle with 45 Actions per minute. Lowest is Assassination Rogue with 32 and highest arms Warrior with 67. Feral and Survival also have less Actions, Frost DK the same amount. Enhancer has 4 more.

And still APM means nothing in terms of difficulty. It also does not show things like target switching or the additional stuff you do on movement fights. Setting up Transcendence etc, target switching to stack up SCK, lining up cooldowns for Serenity, managing CHI..

Monk Single Target is not bad before it getting outscaled, you have no gear and I am assuming "your raid" is no better since you only have 2 Xavius HC kills.

Come back to me when you have world top 5 kill in your resume.

insulting me and my raid? ... well ty sir

I said "is that me being decent" linked my armory and said "nothing special"

Im sorry im not in the Top 5 club mr snowflake our members have been through a lot and fought hard to get where we are at. As far as not having serenity I constantly swap out because I get bored I know its power but its my choice? My gem / chant choice could be better but I also have to heal at times so I try to keep vers on the items that are the same for my healing set.

As far as swankyy goes ty for taking the time to look at my logs...I in no way gloated about my own personal performance as you said. We would very much like to get into harder content but trying to find that set number in the roster is hard on a meh server but it is what it is we have fun regardless.

Happy New Years EVE...may you two have less salty snowflakes in 2017

[Deleted]

insulting me and my raid? ... well ty sir

I said "is that me being decent" linked my armory and said "nothing special"

Im sorry im not in the Top 5 club mr snowflake our members have been through a lot and fought hard to get where we are at. As far as not having serenity I constantly swap out because I get bored I know its power but its my choice? My gem / chant choice could be better but I also have to heal at times so I try to keep vers on the items that are the same for my healing set.

As far as swankyy goes ty for taking the time to look at my logs...I in no way gloated about my own personal performance as you said. We would very much like to get into harder content but trying to find that set number in the roster is hard on a meh server but it is what it is we have fun regardless.

Happy New Years EVE...may you two have less salty snowflakes in 2017

I think the comment was intended more as a discussion of gear rather than skill; WW may perform well at your ilev, but falls behind as the raid as a whole gears up. Only having 2 HC Xav kills means that the gear level won't be quite as high.

[Deleted]

I think the comment was intended more as a discussion of gear rather than skill; WW may perform well at your ilev, but falls behind as the raid as a whole gears up. Only having 2 HC Xav kills means that the gear level won't be quite as high.

Well, the question is then: how many Windwalkers will reach these gear levels and will that be relevant? I dare say there are many, many more Windwalkers with less than 2 HC Xav kills than those with more.

[Knj]

Well, the question is then: how many Windwalkers will reach these gear levels and will that be relevant? I dare say there are many, many more Windwalkers with less than 2 HC Xav kills than those with more.

I don't think the number of Winwalkers that will achieve a certain level of gear should be taken into consideration when trying to balance the specialization.

[Juliansfist]

Well, the question is then: how many Windwalkers will reach these gear levels and will that be relevant? I dare say there are many, many more Windwalkers with less than 2 HC Xav kills than those with more.

Enough that it matters directly for those players at that level.

Enough that there is a wash down class perception that will negatively affect you when people are choosing who to bring for a raid or group. Obviously this will be more pronounced when you need to pug as opposed to regular groups.

The world is bigger than yourself my friend if every WW at high ilvl is frustrated by their class' performance then you should take that on-board and be concerned how your class is going to be doing later because you too will eventually reach that point.

I'm fairly certain that NH normal gear will be high enough to show the scaling problems already. Yes other classes are getting scaling wound back but so are we. 2.5 weeks away and WW shows no sign of improvement. 4 years (?) since WW got SEF and it's perhaps buggier than ever and the old bugs still haven't been fixed. Blizzard state they'll either fix it (very doubtful) or buff to compensate yet no compensation yet exists.

You may be fine now but you also need to look to the future and right now the future is bleak. Anything you can do someone else can do better.

[danieltang34]

Enough that it matters directly for those players at that level.

Enough that there is a wash down class perception that will negatively affect you when people are choosing who to bring for a raid or group. Obviously this will be more pronounced when you need to pug as opposed to regular groups.

The world is bigger than yourself my friend if every WW at high ilvl is frustrated by their class' performance then you should take that on-board and be concerned how your class is going to be doing later because you too will eventually reach that point.

I'm fairly certain that NH normal gear will be high enough to show the scaling problems already. Yes other classes are getting scaling wound back but so are we. 2.5 weeks away and WW shows no sign of improvement. 4 years (?) since WW got SEF and it's perhaps buggier than ever and the old bugs still haven't been fixed. Blizzard state they'll either fix it (very doubtful) or buff to compensate yet no compensation yet exists.

You may be fine now but you also need to look to the future and right now the future is bleak. Anything you can do someone else can do better.

I don't see ww catching up in the near future as well, remember how megabloks dominated WCL early in the expansion, and now random 90 percentile dudes of other classes can outdps him
The only good news is NH is pretty add heavy, but still i don't see monks being better than other AoE classes. The later into the expansion, the more classes start catching up or even beating our AoE
We kind of lost our advantage and became even worse on our weakness (single target)

I'm not sure if you guys feel the same, it feels pretty bad when you can only do good dps while cleaving, it feels like I'm padding more than actually contributing a lot

[Deleted]

I don't see ww catching up in the near future as well, remember how megabloks dominated WCL early in the expansion, and now random 90 percentile dudes of other classes can outdps him
The only good news is NH is pretty add heavy, but still i don't see monks being better than other AoE classes. The later into the expansion, the more classes start catching up or even beating our AoE
We kind of lost our advantage and became even worse on our weakness (single target)

I'm not sure if you guys feel the same, it feels pretty bad when you can only do good dps while cleaving, it feels like I'm padding more than actually contributing a lot

Yep, thought I was good at aoe, but then when I watched fragnance on his DH doing 12mil dps aoe burst in MOS I was pretty sad

[archkiller]

Yep, thought I was good at aoe, but then when I watched fragnance on his DH doing 12mil dps aoe burst in MOS I was pretty sad

WW is just a poor man version of DH, we have worse AOE and ST than DH.

Our pathetic tier set bonus will make the gap even worse. No raid leader is going to give protector token to a WW when MM hunter, warrior and shaman benefits much more from set bonus.