Watcher knew about Legion issues, did nothing about it

[Redroniksre]

If they don't care is because they don't know. Simple as that.

Nobody would want an item that performs worse than another for a DPS if they knew about it and had a chance to choose.

In fact, I'm sure 99% of people would pick their current BiS if a token system was implemented and the number of Sephuz/Prydaz would descent into darkness.

99% wouldn't know what their BiS is, they probably don't even know Icy Veins. fact is, most people don't take this game as seriously as these forum posters do. There is a reason most subs are called Cyclical by the devs.

[Shirofune]

How's it any different than doing raids for months and never getting your BIS trinket to round out your spec? It's not. Who cares if people doing LFR are getting legendaries? They aren't competing in Mythic raids against you. It's legendary envy.

First off, the chance of getting a trinket to drop from a boss is way higher than getting a legendary, and its only one layer of RNG.

Also, the Mythic version of the trinket is better than the Normal version.

A LFR legendary is the same as a legendary from Mythic raiding, for starters.

Also, to get a legendary you've to get through 2 layers of RNG.

[Deleted]

Please feel free to find one guy. Hint:you won't find them in world first guilds. Also what a load of whine from the op

People in top guilds were forced to play their ALTS who had better/bis legendaries than their main.

Let that sink in.

[Gevoth]

Blizzard had a plan. It wasn't changing. Watcher wanted specific feedback. The feedback the thread was intended for. Legendary feedback. What is over/under powered? What is fun? The community did a pretty shit job pointing out the obviously over and under powered legendaries by completely derailing the thread into a fit about potentially losing mythic raid spots.

How you got anything about deadlines, rudeness, and a lack of effort out of that post I don't know.

[Holofernes]

I definitely hope this is sarcasm. I feel like it is.

Even the top guilds in the world said they didn't bench anyone due to bad legendaries. I've never seen a single pug even require a legendary and most of the top US 20 guilds I've seen recruit don't require one either. They don't even ask how many you've got.

yeah top guilds players have 3-5 chars. they show up the one with that one that had the bis legendarys. normal people only have 1 char equiped, and they have to witness all progress kills on the stream if they had bad luck, because they do 20-25 % less overall dmg because of shitty legendaries.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

This has been answered already, anyway:

"We haven't benched people due to legendaries, but we have had people switch to one of their alts, when they got good legendaries on them, and weren't lucky to get any on their mains."

What can't you read there? They got their alts with good legendaries 'cause the performance was better, rofl.

This has to be willful ignorance.

Again, if you read correctly, you'll see that they didn't bench the player. If RNG was particularly strong on an alt, they'd simply adapt around it. This is not just related to legendaries. Right under, if you took the time to read, you'd see that most people are back on their main because they have all somewhat good legendaries. The issue wasn't which legendary they got -- it was that some had none, while others had some that were good.

[Armourboy]

This has to be willful ignorance.

Again, if you read correctly, you'll see that they didn't bench the player. If RNG was particularly strong on an alt, they'd simply adapt around it. This is not just related to legendaries. Right under, if you took the time to read, you'd see that most people are back on their main because they have all somewhat good legendaries. The issue wasn't which legendary they got -- it was that some had none, while others had some that were good.

Frankly the only reason it wasn't a problem though is that alts are so easy to level. Had it been more like it was in Vanilla or even TBC, you would have been seeing players benched because odds are they wouldn't have had the army of alts with the good legendaries to being with.

The only reason individuals haven't been benched is because creating a max level character has no meaning anymore.

[Shirofune]

This has to be willful ignorance.

Again, if you read correctly, you'll see that they didn't bench the player. If RNG was particularly strong on an alt, they'd simply adapt around it. This is not just related to legendaries. Right under, if you took the time to read, you'd see that most people are back on their main because they have all somewhat good legendaries. The issue wasn't which legendary they got -- it was that some had none, while others had some that were good.

Who the fuck said players were being benched? I told you, 2 characters, same skill, but different performance, the one with the best performance gets the spot, lol.

[Deleted]

It's awesome that this whole thread degenerated to talking about what Method did.
Talking about focusing on the extreme case of outliers.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Frankly the only reason it wasn't a problem though is that alts are so easy to level. Had it been more like it was in Vanilla or even TBC, you would have been seeing players benched because odds are they wouldn't have had the army of alts with the good legendaries to being with.

The only reason individuals haven't been benched is because creating a max level character has no meaning anymore.

Perhaps that is the case. But then, the problem is no longer the Legendaries. It's the system as a whole.

Who the fuck said players were being benched? I told you, 2 characters, same skill, but different performance, the one with the best performance gets the spot, lol.

Well then don't claim legendaries makes the difference between someone's who's benched and someone's who's not, because I spoke of people being benched.

[enchiridion]

You're so clueless, lol.

0.2% DPS MATTERS, specially in Mythic progression. Do you know how many wipes happened in Mythic Guarm because of the lack of DPS and the boss being balanced towards the raid having legendaries? I agree 0.2% DPS isn't going to carry you through all bosses, but in progression, every bit matters. The shorter the boss, the less stress to healers/tanks.

In progression, there're a lot of things that matter, but, provided the same level of attendance and skill, a guy that does more DPS will get the spot over someone that does less DPS. That's called being a Core member, and it's something every half decent guild has. A raid HAS to optimize its spots to progress in Mythic.

OK Shiro, now I know you are in marduum, and I know the conversations have been had, there are so few fights in wow as a whole and in legion where the difference of a legendary matters (outside of top 10 since they are essentially undergeared for the content) that this argument is false. Most wipes are due to failing mechanics, not dps so let's please get away from that.

OT: really the legendary system is shot in some people's view, great in others eyes, and some people couldn't give a damn. All of those types of people are represented in some way in the raiding community. It's subjective, even if blizzard comes and says it was bad that still doesn't mean it is (the same goes the other way too) it's just subjective. It's a video game there are parts you are bound to hate, all you can do is offer appropriate feedback, in a useful locale (mmo-c will do f*ckall I'm sure) and if it changes OK, if not oh well, that is the new state of the game. The op took a quote and didn't post anything from after he asked for direct feedback, so essentially they are cutting and pasting info to suit their argument without the whole picture, blizzard isn't out to get us, they are making a game and trying to make money, plain and simple people are so paranoid I swear

[Charge me Doctor]

Frankly the only reason it wasn't a problem though is that alts are so easy to level. Had it been more like it was in Vanilla or even TBC, you would have been seeing players benched because odds are they wouldn't have had the army of alts with the good legendaries to being with.

The only reason individuals haven't been benched is because creating a max level character has no meaning anymore.

people do not have army of alts now. Only very dedicated players keep an army of alts ready to raid. And they are in top guilds probably (else i don't know why would you even do this)

don't bring old expansions to this discussion, it's irrelevant and even good players were benched for an extra salv buff from a mouth-breathing paladin who struggle to keep a 5 minute buff on 5 rogues.

At least you admit that it isn't an issue since leveling and gearing up an alt is easy now.
So, maybe looking at this in big picture system works fine, don't you think?
People who don't get legendaries are not punished for that, because they are irrelevant at the level of their play.
People who rely on legendaries do everything they can (and there is plenty of things to do) to increase their chances of getting one, so top-notch players keep a healthy roster of character ready for raids

[taliey]

There are more important things than legendaries - skill, situational awareness, teamwork/coordination being a few I can name off the top of my head.

[Vellithe]

So basically if alts weren't so easy to level and get ready these days they would have been benching people with bad legendaries.

See I look at it and don't see what I would call really a bad or broken system. You take this system, strip the DPS increases out and just have utility based ones, you have a perfectly ok system. The problem really isn't with the legendary system itself, the problem is the dumbass that thought it would be a good idea to have ones that increase your DPS and ones that don't put into the same loot table.

Once again Blizzard creates a system that is fine, its the implementation that is wonky. I'll also take a stab that rather than working on the system a bit they will just completely scrap it, because Blizzard loves to swing from one extreme to the other.

The worst part is that I've seen this before. Since the problem wasn't the legendary system, but their implementation, I'm sure come around next expansion they'll just take legendaries all out and say that they're bad, never accepting that the system was fine and that they (Blizzard) are the ones who fucked it up.

Their devs are so touchy and egocentric that if people don't accept whatever they make 100% they'd rather just remove the whole thing as if to punish people for daring to reject their amazing design.

It sucks that a company as big as Blizzard is stuck with indie-tier devs.

There are more important things than legendaries - skill, situational awareness, teamwork/coordination being a few I can name off the top of my head.

Except you can have all those important things AND legendaries at the same time, and once you already have all the things you mentioned, legendaries become the only differential.

It's like people keep going off and about over "skill skill skill", but end of the day if someone has better enough gear they'll outperform anyone. A low-quality player will still outperform the best player in the world given a big enough iLvl difference, that's just how this game works. Not to mention that most of the time you're not comparing Jimmy to Destructon the Detroyer of Worlds World Rank #1. Players tend to group together, so you'll invariably be comparing two players of similar skill, except one now has a 10% DPS buff thanks to having a good legendary in a system that arbitrarily blocks farming for the right legendaries.

[Deleted]

"you wont find benched people in top guilds" No shit sherlock, everybody know they bought account/made 10 alts to play that one with the best legendaries, stop closing your eyes to reality, or you can explain me how there are people with no remarkable kills/achiv prior to legion in top guilds right now

[Shirofune]

Perhaps that is the case. But then, the problem is no longer the Legendaries. It's the system as a whole.



Well then don't claim legendaries makes the difference between someone's who's benched and someone's who's not, because I spoke of people being benched.

BUT IT DOES. You just keep saying stuff that doesn't make sense.

Stop thinking about the player, think about the character.

A character can do 400k DPS. Another one can do 450k. You take the 450k one.

The thing is, in Legion, a character with BiS legendaries can do way more than DPS than one without them.

A core team is usually composed of 20 people, that is, the people is ALWAYS the same. In Method people didn't change, the characters did, because their skill is the best, their performance is not, because of the legendaries.

Clear?

[enchiridion]

BUT IT DOES. You just keep thing that doesn't make sense.

Stop thinking about the player, think about the character.

A character can do 400k DPS. Another one can do 450k. You take the 450k one.

The thing is, in Legion, a character with BiS legendaries can do way more than DPS than one without them.

A core team is usually composed of 20 people, that is, the people is ALWAYS the same. In Method people didn't change, the characters did, because their skill is the best, their performance is not, because of the legendaries.

Clear?

ok, so how is that different from 2 players x can do 400k dps and y can do 450k, and y can do 450k bc of lucky TF and optimal gear dropped for them (trinkets, proper stats, relics) how is that any different? the fact of the matter is that it is more likely to be a skill difference not a gear difference even with legendaries. and we have a precedent of inviting the better geared person anyway so why is this anything new?

[Heladys]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

At least none that had any worthwhile skills of their own.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

BUT IT DOES. You just keep saying stuff that doesn't make sense.

Stop thinking about the player, think about the character.

A character can do 400k DPS. Another one can do 450k. You take the 450k one.

The thing is, in Legion, a character with BiS legendaries can do way more than DPS than one without them.

A core team is usually composed of 20 people, that is, the people is ALWAYS the same. In Method people didn't change, the characters did, because their skill is the best, their performance is not, because of the legendaries.

Clear?

Factually, class balance has a bigger impact, but if you would've read what I've said correctly initially, you wouldn't need to clarify your position.

[omeomorfismo]

We don't bench 'cause of legendaries. We bench 'cause of performance.

You'll raid in mythic someday and you will understand.

Tbf, is not 0.2, its 0.2 x 20 = 4% DPS.

°-°, you even read a math book?
0.2% of personal DPS for 20 people, is still 0.2% of the total DPS
if (taking 3 DPS)
TOTDPS= DPS1+DPS2+DPS3

then you have your boost of 0.2%, so you have

1.002*DPS1+1.002*DPS2+1.002*DPS3=1.002*(DPS1+DPS2+DPS3)=1.002*TOTDPS

whooho, the magical world of mathematic and his distributive multiplication!