Why Putin’s Economy Survives

[Theodarzna]

Clearly Putin has Hacked real life and is using cheats..... Le OBS!

[Elim Garak]

What kind of braindead semantics are those. And how in the blazes is ''there are people who like having sex with the same gender'' propaganda?

It is under the law if you say that to a minor. Only.

[Gorgodeus]

You know you sound like you don't know what you are talking about. Debt cannot be both US and foreign owned. It's either US owned or foreign country owned. Hence why US owned debt is irrelevant here especially since US is trying real hard to keep it US owned.

You have $100 of debt. You do not want $90 of that debt owned by a foreign entity. Simple enough for you?

[Barnabas]

Because the EU is propping up their economy.

[Elim Garak]

You have $100 of debt. You do not want $90 of that debt owned by a foreign entity. Simple enough for you?

Most of the debt cannot be even bought by a foreign country by the nature of the debt. Duh.
And the debt owned by domestic entities can be bought by government to prevent it from being bought by foreign countries. Thus making it impossible to be bought by a foreign country.

As it stands now ~35% of the US debt is owned by foreign entities. China's being the one of the biggest owners of that debt so it is an entity you have to account for in your decisions.

Sorry, that's as simple as it can get.

[Deleted]

I am glad you registered. It is refreshing to see a post like this every once in a while. Happy new year! And good luck avoiding the media campaigns, it is a plague. And it is only going to be worse for the likes of me with the French elections coming soon.

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

99.9999% is exagerated. You'd be more accurate to say that a fraction is directly impacted, a large minority is somewhat impacted and a slight majority isn't impacted at all. The reality is that many people live in fear of openly protesting something, so many people just don't, even when they disagree. It's called the groupthink phenomenon.



Yikes. Glad you subscribed, although I wish it would've been to post something less ironic than this. By criticizing me on my black and white statement by using black and white argument, you've been paradoxally contradicting yourself.

But don't worry. I don't hate Russians or the general country. I hate the government there and how they enforce their rules, plus how little regards they have for international laws and contracts.

Paradoxically contradicting myself? That sounds painful. I disagree with my misunderstood statements being paradoxical, but that's neither here nor there because it is clear I was misunderstood.

There was no argument in my post, as I didn't try to contest your opinion - only reason that it is propaganda that fuels the ignorance that makes you assert your prejudices as fact. You're speaking to a Russian, a living breathing Russian who deals with everything Russia everyday - yet far from listening to what they have to say of the country they live in you'd prefer to belittle their experiences while declaring your opinions as fact. I don't dispute your opinions, they're yours, I just dispute that they are facts.

In fairness, everyone is trying to push a political agenda, consciously or sub-consciously. Sadly, none of us can be right, as there is no right. You can say murder is wrong, I can say it is right. There is no right or wrong. We are expressing opinions and ideas - not facts.

Admittedly, just you declaring your opinion as facts was the impetus I needed to register. I believe that's what it means to be triggered?

I think of the man whose name for which the word describing the mentality required to continue this irreconcilable discussion, is ascribed. Possibly also because of the gentleman I quoted above speaking about the French elections. Specifically, I think of a passage by Geoffrey Gorer in his book on the man, Marquis de Sade:

As a revolutionary thinker de Sade was in complete opposition to all his contemporaries firstly in his complete and continual denial of a right to property, and secondly in his view of the struggle as being not between the Crown, the bourgeoisie, the aristocracy or the clergy, or sectional interests of any of these against one another (the view of all his contemporaries) but of all these more or less united against the proletariat.

I don't want to pain you with my trivial objections, I just don't want interesting people frightened away by contributors whose blood runs red, white and blue. Please, enjoy your New Year.

[Jastall]

It is under the law if you say that to a minor. Only.

Is it also propaganda to tell the poor, vulnerable little children that some people have black skin? Or are Jews, Muslims or whatever religious minority exists? That some people (heaven forbid!) are different than others?

To label the existence of a minority as ''propaganda'' is discrimination, pure and simple. It's not defensible, and the ''but think of the children!!'' angle is quite pathetic if you ask me. That's like saying the ''separate but equal'' concept that was at the heart of segregation in the US wasn't racist because it didn't explicitely say it was racist. It's pure bullshit.

I don't think Putin or Russia is the devil as some seem to do, but the mental gymnastics used to defend the more heinous actions of that government boggle my mind. And not just in the context of persecution of homosexuals; how many leaders of opposition were killed or jailed, anyway?

[Elim Garak]

Is it also propaganda to tell the poor, vulnerable little children that some people have black skin? Or are Jews, Muslims or whatever religious minority exists? That some people (heaven forbid!) are different than others?

What are you on about? Hold your horses.

To label the existence of a minority as ''propaganda'' is discrimination, pure and simple.

That ain't a thing. You just have reading comprehension issues.
First of all it's not "existence of minority". It's talking about sexual stuff to minors.
Second of all, the law is all-inclusive. That is heterosexuals cannot talk about sex stuff to minors either.
Equality, yo.
Irregardless of yours or mine opinions on the law - it is not discriminatory.

It's not defensible, and the ''but think of the children!!'' angle is quite pathetic if you ask me.

I don't ask you. Your opinion is just that. For Russians it's a cultural thing. Strangers are not allowed to talk to kids about sex, not to mention enlightening kids about homosexuality. Not to mention - Publicly. Parents talk to their kids about that stuff when the time is right. In private.

I don't think Putin or Russia is the devil as some seem to do, but the mental gymnastics used to defend the more heinous actions of that government boggle my mind. And not just in the context of persecution of homosexuals; how many leaders of opposition were killed or jailed, anyway?

I don't know. I don't keep watch on something that rare. Not to mention the implication you are trying to make is silly. Just because someone gets into jail or killed - doesn't mean it was for political reasons. Corruption is high in Russia. So it shouldn't be a surprise that opposition leaders are corrupt too and that often means they deal with organized crime, because, duh, opposition, they don't have access to regular corruption methods.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I'm glad you enjoyed it!



Paradoxically contradicting myself? That sounds painful. I disagree with my misunderstood statements being paradoxical, but that's neither here nor there because it is clear I was misunderstood.

There was no argument in my post, as I didn't try to contest your opinion - only reason that it is propaganda that fuels the ignorance that makes you assert your prejudices as fact. You're speaking to a Russian, a living breathing Russian who deals with everything Russia everyday - yet far from listening to what they have to say of the country they live in you'd prefer to belittle their experiences while declaring your opinions as fact. I don't dispute your opinions, they're yours, I just dispute that they are facts.

In fairness, everyone is trying to push a political agenda, consciously or sub-consciously. Sadly, none of us can be right, as there is no right. You can say murder is wrong, I can say it is right. There is no right or wrong. We are expressing opinions and ideas - not facts.

Admittedly, just you declaring your opinion as facts was the impetus I needed to register. I believe that's what it means to be triggered?

I think of the man whose name for which the word describing the mentality required to continue this irreconcilable discussion, is ascribed. Possibly also because of the gentleman I quoted above speaking about the French elections. Specifically, I think of a passage by Geoffrey Gorer in his book on the man, Marquis de Sade:



I don't want to pain you with my trivial objections, I just don't want interesting people frightened away by contributors whose blood runs red, white and blue. Please, enjoy your New Year.

I understand where you come from. It's sad you only just saw that little bit of information -- something I've learned on a forum is that sometime, you have to bite harder than what you believe to make a stand. That is in the form of broad judgments and generalization, which I did, for the sake of argument.

Of course, I don't think every Russians are bad. I don't think every government officials are corrupted. I don't think every X is Y. There's a whole lot of shades of gray, which makes the whole debate a debate, actually.

My point was more in the way you brought your argument. By pointing me with a finger, you've isolated me as an example representative of a sample. This led to me answering with the ironic answer. I'm not going to say your argument as a whole was bad, in fact, I agreed with most of it. But I had the need to point where your argument was wrong at its core. Yeah, I'm like that.

I also make a fair point of not pushing opinions as facts - when opinions are pushed as facts (something you will see a lot around here, believe me), it is not fact nor opinions that you see, but data being filtered down the experience lense of the individual receiving the information. We give this filtered down result as fact a lot, because nobody want to believe they were/are wrong. After all, we're intelligent. Saying we did a mistake is the equivalent of saying that we're stupid. Which is stupid itself, but it's still the reality.

So, in correction to my first statement, here's what I actually believe about Russia:

• I think that country isn't on par with Human Rights that other first world countries have.
• I think the government is too far upon the totalitarian quadrant, where control take over freedom.
- Censorship of the internet, for instance, is a strong case in that regard.
- Likewise, anti-propaganda laws also work in that favor. Not that the US is better in the recent years, which they themselves have made official.
• I think that the way Russia handled Sochi Olympics was a disaster on many level, with people being in unhygienic conditions. Some facilities were barely standing while some athletes were targetted with intimidation.
• The people of Russia are, at least the ones I've met, very intelligent and thoughtful. That's not to say they all are, but internet memes about Russia are mostly idiotic jokes.
• Russia also makes some good political and military moves that other countries refuses to do, which in turn prevent a lot of problems growing out of control.

Also, de Sade is a great thinker (also a very troubling character in Assassin's Creed: Unity), and while I agree that there's a divide between the working class and the government (something that Russia has done well in reducing), that doesn't make it more ethical in the way it was applied and/or how it is maintained.

Oh, and before I forget, Happy new year to you too.

[Deleted]

Dumb article. The economy is surviving but the country itself has lost 500 billion dollars since the sanctions and is surviving based on their reserves. Quite a known fact if the writer of the article would do some legitimate research into why the economy is holding up right now. Russia currently has around 3 of 4 years left of those reserves, then it will be bankrupt.

[oxymoronic]

It is also a fact that until a couple decades ago gays were tortured and murdered in the west, while in russia they had to pay a monetary fee only.
Ergo, russia was much much more liberal towards gays for a much longer period of time than the west, and now western special snowflakes demonize russia because they dont celebrate the gay culture.

This western ignorance is pathetic and absurd. No wonder countries like germany and sweden are on the decline.

what is this guy smoking? gays were never tortured and murdered by the government and the times it happened with civilians is miniscule and comparable to the rest of the world. what a weird picture of america some people have, like its the fucking wild west that u see in movies.

- - - Updated - - -

China is one of the biggest foreign US debt owners. Regardless of how you twist the numbers.

silly ds9 guy this was never in question. with japan in a close 2nd, right? doesnt sound too hard to understand

real question is can they collect whenever they want and what happens if they do

- - - Updated - - -

• I think that country isn't on par with Human Rights that other first world countries have.
• I think the government is too far upon the totalitarian quadrant, where control take over freedom.
- Censorship of the internet, for instance, is a strong case in that regard.
- Likewise, anti-propaganda laws also work in that favor. Not that the US is better in the recent years, which they themselves have made official.
• I think that the way Russia handled Sochi Olympics was a disaster on many level, with people being in unhygienic conditions. Some facilities were barely standing while some athletes were targetted with intimidation.
• The people of Russia are, at least the ones I've met, very intelligent and thoughtful. That's not to say they all are, but internet memes about Russia are mostly idiotic jokes.
• Russia also makes some good political and military moves that other countries refuses to do, which in turn prevent a lot of problems growing out of control.

none of these are a reason why US and russia can be friends. i want a real reason that is current, cold war is over...

[Zandalarian Paladin]

none of these are a reason why US and russia can be friends. i want a real reason that is current, cold war is over...

I don't remember stating the US and Russia can't be friends. I just remember saying that I do not support Russia. But then again I support even less Saudi Arabia and they're a strong ally.

[Deleted]

what is this guy smoking? gays were never tortured and murdered by the government and the times it happened with civilians is miniscule and comparable to the rest of the world. what a weird picture of america some people have, like its the fucking wild west that u see in movies.

Inform yourself about Alan Turing for instance before you spout ignorance.

[Shalcker]

Dumb article. The economy is surviving but the country itself has lost 500 billion dollars since the sanctions and is surviving based on their reserves. Quite a known fact if the writer of the article would do some legitimate research into why the economy is holding up right now. Russia currently has around 3 of 4 years left of those reserves, then it will be bankrupt.

Except regardless of anything else (that is, oil staying low, sanctions being kept) economy is still projected to grow starting this year.

Which means that "be bankrupt" point goes back to "never" (and there are lots of way to not go bankrupt anyway, with Russia having one of lowest levels of government debt in the world there are decades of time that can be gained by driving it up before going bankrupt).

[Deleted]

I understand where you come from. It's sad you only just saw that little bit of information -- something I've learned on a forum is that sometime, you have to bite harder than what you believe to make a stand. That is in the form of broad judgments and generalization, which I did, for the sake of argument.

Of course, I don't think every Russians are bad. I don't think every government officials are corrupted. I don't think every X is Y. There's a whole lot of shades of gray, which makes the whole debate a debate, actually.

My point was more in the way you brought your argument. By pointing me with a finger, you've isolated me as an example representative of a sample. This led to me answering with the ironic answer. I'm not going to say your argument as a whole was bad, in fact, I agreed with most of it. But I had the need to point where your argument was wrong at its core. Yeah, I'm like that.

I also make a fair point of not pushing opinions as facts - when opinions are pushed as facts (something you will see a lot around here, believe me), it is not fact nor opinions that you see, but data being filtered down the experience lense of the individual receiving the information. We give this filtered down result as fact a lot, because nobody want to believe they were/are wrong. After all, we're intelligent. Saying we did a mistake is the equivalent of saying that we're stupid. Which is stupid itself, but it's still the reality.

So, in correction to my first statement, here's what I actually believe about Russia:

• I think that country isn't on par with Human Rights that other first world countries have.
• I think the government is too far upon the totalitarian quadrant, where control take over freedom.
- Censorship of the internet, for instance, is a strong case in that regard.
- Likewise, anti-propaganda laws also work in that favor. Not that the US is better in the recent years, which they themselves have made official.
• I think that the way Russia handled Sochi Olympics was a disaster on many level, with people being in unhygienic conditions. Some facilities were barely standing while some athletes were targetted with intimidation.
• The people of Russia are, at least the ones I've met, very intelligent and thoughtful. That's not to say they all are, but internet memes about Russia are mostly idiotic jokes.
• Russia also makes some good political and military moves that other countries refuses to do, which in turn prevent a lot of problems growing out of control.

Also, de Sade is a great thinker (also a very troubling character in Assassin's Creed: Unity), and while I agree that there's a divide between the working class and the government (something that Russia has done well in reducing), that doesn't make it more ethical in the way it was applied and/or how it is maintained.

Oh, and before I forget, Happy new year to you too.

It makes for a far more interesting and engaging read when you put it like that!

I like it, it's well thought out and well written. Sadly, there is not a lot I can engage with because the brunt of it is a "fight club" preamble to the forum. I welcome the warning - I can't imagine I will post much because I'm too busy reading. But I much prefer reading posts like this than what I read before.

Keep it up chaps, I'll duck on out again.

[Rasulis]

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33536.pdf
China is the biggest foreign holder of US treasury securities , standing at 20.6% or $1.258 trillion . And whilst you're technically correct that the majority US debt (which one day will be the reason of its downfall) does belong to US , you're failing to account that if China was to sell of the aforementioned debt it would harm the US economy severely. Moreover there's financial contagion to account for as well.
Basically if China wanted to fuck US , they can .

China has been dumping US bonds to prop the Yuan since August of 2015. For the last five consecutive months they been selling. At its peak China held 3.6 trillion in US bonds, down to 1.115 trillion in October 2016. No numbers from November and December yet. Japan is now the biggest holder of US treasury bond at 1.2244 trillion. The way the Yuan is going, they likely will need to sell some more next year.

[minteK917]

Is it superman's ability to fly or his laser vision? Or batman's... oh wait batman has no superpowers.

Batman only has one superpower, be brooding. Thats part of why DC movies blow ass, they give batman superpower to everyone.

[ringpriest]

So in more true words; Russia + 14 countries occupied by Russia.

"Russia + 14 countries colonized and ethnically cleansed to varying degrees" might be more accurate - most (if not all) of the Socialist Republics had a history of domination by the Russian Empire before the Soviet Union incorporated them.

[Mormolyce]

and you aren't a sole superpower after all.

Wait, you think Russia is still a superpower?

*Cue sniggering*

[Deleted]

Wait, you think Russia is still a superpower?

*Cue sniggering*

It's becoming one. What's more sad is that your country can't survive in a multipolar world. It isn't made to, not anymore. Bye bye America.