Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[RHDS]

If the problem is attitude, then let's remove lockouts on Raids. Add weekly suffixes to raid bosses and baam, 1000x more content, super challenging even cutting edge raiders will cry to their mommies. Nothing to complain about, tons of challenging content! Will work out great, I guarantee! /s

[kary]

It's amusing how tilted people get when noone is to blame but themselves

[kamuimac]

If the problem is attitude, then let's remove lockouts on Raids. Add weekly suffixes to raid bosses and baam, 1000x more content, super challenging even cutting edge raiders will cry to their mommies. Nothing to complain about, tons of challenging content! Will work out great, I guarantee! /s

i would support this idea any hour of any day - but sadly looking at the behaviour of people with ap im afraid it would end with dozens of deaths from exhaustion of farming raids over and over and over because "im there is this 1 % upgrade still there " .

[kary]

i would support this idea any hour of any day - but sadly looking at the behaviour of people with ap im afraid it would end with dozens of deaths from exhaustion of farming raids over and over and over because "im there is this 1 % upgrade still there " .

Would mainly be retarded mid-tier raiders that think that they have a chance of becoming "wf" guilds.
There are people still progressing, but only people who are clueless are actually still grinding shit.

[kamuimac]

Would mainly be retarded mid-tier raiders that think that they have a chance of becoming "wf" guilds.
There are people still progressing, but only people who are clueless are actually still grinding shit.

well the whole ap situation clearly proved to never underestimate people stupidity and lack of self preservation instinct -_-

[Deleted]

No.

You simply got it completely wrong. The problem isn't the system, but your attitude towards it. And I find it baffling how many people keep falling into this same trap.

Convincing yourself that you have to clear the map of all artifact power quests all the times is pure insanity. Those quests just keep coming, they're always there. How can anyone get it so wrong? You people are just incapable of any kind of responsibility for your own personal time management, and keep confusing "there's always something to do" with "all of this has to be done". It's just silly and, frankly, your own problem that you've created for yourself.

As long as people are being that silly in the way they approach the game, it's a no-win situation for Blizzard. They finally have some sort of system in place that offers continuous progression and now you're whining. If there was no such thing, you would be whining that you're already back to "log in 2-3 times a week and do nothing in between" and how there's a "lack of content". You really need to ask yourself what you actually want and if there's any sensible way to give you what you want. And if you yourself would even be able to come up with a system that doesn't leave you unsatisfied and frustrated.

Can I quote you every time I see a whiner?

1+ rep.

[KaPe]

Would mainly be retarded mid-tier raiders that think that they have a chance of becoming "wf" guilds.
There are people still progressing, but only people who are clueless are actually still grinding shit.

What's "retarded" is this logic of "only world first guilds really need those extra %".

Remember how it was in every prior expansion - top guilds would do raids while undergeared, making up for it with class stacking or specific strategies. Typical mythic guilds - filled with people who you so nicely call "retards" - would get gear from weaker bosses and eventually reach a level where they could do harder ones. Except with Titanforged items, it doesn't work like that anymore. The only real way of getting stronger is getting more 0.5% traits - which in turn requires significant amount of AP farming.

It has nothing to do with becoming wf guild. It has everything to getting a bit of advantage that would previously come from farming raids, but now is gone. It might come back with Nighthold tiers... but then again, WF guild will have 5+ split raids anyway, and will fill the gaps with M+ gear. So it will be the difference between 35 and 54 traits.

Again, just think about what you are saying. "Average mythic raider needs less of a handicap than Method and they are retards for trying to get it". It's completely backwards.

[Banthare]

Slow your roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sUXHCAmRiY

[Deleted]

For me personally the hurry is in the achievement. Our guild is by no means the hardcore, we killed Xavius in mythic 3000th+, and sadly we have only couple of weekly resets, because of holidays, to get the achv for other guys in our roster before it will be removed. So it's not solely players-made competition here too.


You had dailies and challenges during wod, the same activities as wq and m+ in Legion. Suddenly from "meh" they became "yay". Oh, the rewards have changed, i see.
During wod you had dailies, challenges, pet battling, mount hunting, pvp, treasure finding, fishing, farming transmog, collecting achievements, leveling alts, insane in the membrane, old reputations, etc, etc. You had hundreds of things to do, but they didn't give you numbers to outgear current content, so you just omit them saying you had nothing to do.
Moreover, all that things were optional content, so you could (and can) do it at your own pace. Only required activities for competitive play were farming the basic gear (and that was capped as you know) and bis crafted gear and then just properly doing the raids or pvp. I don't know about vanilla and bc but since wotlk there was no so time-consuming initial grind as in Legion. MoP dailies were close but lasted significantly less, and once you've done the reps, you've done and move to fun part.
I've always enjoyed having spare time here and there to see the World beyond actual content. The possibility to progress every minute is forcing the min-maxing players to do this progress, the possibility to collect something is not forcing anyone to anything.

Still no clue what you are on about sorry

[taliey]

I'd like to see a MMORPG that isn't a repetitive grind.

[Wilfire]

Grinding AP and staying on top of your game is as much a part of being in a raiding guild as turning up to work 5 days a week is a part of having a job. Guilds don't have to put up with people who are "tired" of grinding AP since they can easily recruit someone who's happy to run M+ 20 hours week. Mid-tier semi-hardcore raiders are losing their raid spots, jobs and families over this endless grind. LFR heroes and WQ farmers don't understand this since Blizzard caters to their every whim. They just don't understand what's it like to play in a semi-hardcore raiding guild.

[Chrno]

I'd like to see a MMORPG that isn't a repetitive grind.

Define grind?
- leveling up;
- Grinding gold;
- Leveling professions;
- Farm dungeons for gear;
- Running Mythic+ for gear/AP;
- Reputation grinding;

Technically it's all grinding, but i like most of it. If i'd play a MMORPG without leveling up, gear grinding and leveling up professions i'd be bored out of my skull within a week.

I need that carrot.

[Wilfire]

Semi-hardcore doesn't exist.

I realize you're about to say "hurr durr look at this guy saying i dont exist" but that's different, and here's why.

Semi-hardcore means you don't care if people are going to push super hard to get into your raid. You're still going to push and try to do well. If you think you need every point of AP to push, you're not semi-hardcore, you're just hardcore.

Semi-hardcore means you're going to push bosses regardless of if every 'minimum' (read: player-forced requirement) requirement is met or not. If you're saying "We can't do m ursoc cause our ilevel isn't high enough so let's call it quits this week" you're not semi-hardcore, you're just hardcore.

Semi-hardcore doesn't require you to farm food for however many hours per week. Semi-hardcore doesn't require you to push for every point of AP. Semi-hardcore doesn't require you to clear every boss of a tier before the next tier comes out. Semi-hardcore isn't playing like hardcore, but wishing you didn't feel like you had to. Semi-hardcore is playing how you want, and pushing for success. If you WANT to push for every point of AP 'because i feel like i have to' is not an excuse. You can choose to play how you want still, you just won't.

Semi-hardcore is putting in maximum effort 3 times a week rather than 5 like hardcore. If you don't understand how raiding guilds work don't make baseless presumptions.

[rda]

Semi-hardcore is putting in maximum effort 3 times a week rather than 5 like hardcore. If you don't understand how raiding guilds work don't make baseless presumptions.

To be honest, 3 times a week vs 5 times a week does not look like an important distinction - an outside view.

[SlayAllDay]

well of course they are repetitive, which is why you should find things to do to make it not so repetitive, I join my guild in a lot of world pvp stuff and it keeps everything pretty fun

or I just go ganking and camping alone or with a friend to ruin the alliance's day.

[Elim Garak]

Semi-hardcore is putting in maximum effort 3 times a week rather than 5 like hardcore. If you don't understand how raiding guilds work don't make baseless presumptions.

Take your own advice. Semi hardcore means a hybrid between casual and hardcore. That is when you have time to raid you raid hardcore. But you don't have time to play the game outside of raids because you are also a casual with a job and maybe kids so you only do out-of-raid stuff when you have a bit of time for it - and as a semi-hardcore guy you must hate everything that takes longer than 30 minutes to finish.

Playing less days a week doesn't mean you are not fully hardcore, you are just playing less days a week.

[Deleted]

To be honest I was hoping WoW would introduce some grinding element in end game. I enjoy grinding. Or at least I think I did. Maybe it wasn't absolutely essential to my character strength like AP is... In any case I really don't like it in the form that it currently is. I used to grind the crap out of Lineage 2. And that game is the epitome of grinding essential for character strength.

What really ticks me off about WoW is their time gating mechanics. Daily crafts, weekly caps, etc, etc.

Intense grinding is fun when it's optional. It took me 386 LK kills to get Invincible, and I loved the weekly chase. 2 key aspects made it fun:
1) Weekly.
2) Entirely optional.

It's still a grind, but with the right checks & balances in place.

Another fun grind? Nat Pagle his waterstrider. I farmed it in a day and a half, spending almost my entire day on fishing. Entirely optional as well, and I had a blast with Netflix/Twitch on my second screen. Grindy as hell, but relaxing and not a mandatory thing to do.

[Granyala]

Mid-tier semi-hardcore raiders are losing their raid spots, jobs and families over this endless grind.

Oh please, stop being a drama queen.
Yes, a few asshat raidleads will ditch "lazy" people, but these morons would ALWAYS find some "reason" to kick people they deem "unworthy".
If it weren't AP, it would be the class or the race or your voice in TS/Vent.

Quite frankly: if your "mid-tier" guild thinks it has to behave way worse than the world-elite while having maybe 10% of their success, you are way better off w/o these people.

No one loses their jobs or their families over AP, esp not in "mid-tier raiding" Oo.

[Akka]

I mean Augment Runes are nothing compared to the consumable grind in Vanilla + TBC.

The only true horrible grind in Vanilla was for raid consummable for bleeding edge guilds, yeah.
TBC, though ? There was about ZERO farming for consummable from 2.1 onward. Pretty terrible example.

- - - Updated - - -

It's pre silithus quests actually. If you leveled early enough, you could run out of quests.

No you couldn't. Pure 100 % lie, even with actively avoiding rested XP. Once again, forum legend which is parroted and end up with people thinking it's true - and once again, it's the same people who sprout the same BS, seems like there is a trend in ignorance (or purposeful lies).

[rhorle]

Mid-tier semi-hardcore raiders are losing their raid spots, jobs and families over this endless grind.

If you are losing your job or family over WoW then you are not a semi-hardcore player. You can still do all of that and not have to worry about a raid spot if your guild actually understands how things work. I've unlocked all the traits for my artifact I have only done one mythic+ run. If AP is still an issue they you didn't it wrong to begin with or are working on the bonus trait in order to prop yourself or your guild up.

I gained my entire 34th trait by using the order hall mission rewards. I couldn't log in for two weeks or more because of work and the holidays. The problem is that you and others put entirely to much focus on things. Just because you give your maximum effort 3 nights a week as "semi-hardcore" doesn't mean you have to still grind mythic dungeons for 20 hours a week. That right there invalidates your "semi-hardcore" definition by the way.

If your guild needs to use higher AP as a crutch then perhaps you are better off in another guild? These raids were designed around lower artifact traits and any who keep pushing higher artifact traits (and farming AP) is trying to make up for deficiencies in their group. That is fine and all but if you are at the groups limit it doesn't justify imposing stupid limits.