Watcher knew about Legion issues, did nothing about it

[Aggrophobic]

that's the difference between good players and bad players. Average player do not do that. Bad player does. Majority of WoW players are bad players (aka, do not want to perform better to get better reward, they want to do easy content enough time to overgear content (which will be outdated by that time)).

i'll repeat myself - you are talking about bad player, which happen to be a majority, and became universally acceptable thing thanks to previous expansions. Now, in legion, thanks to various changed they made to raid encounters and where you can put your time and effort to improve your character bad players are at their disadvantage now. Guild which raid normal raids get same gear of local quest ilvl (which puts things in perspective of "why do i bother with wiping in cenarius normal while i could do local quests then?), giving them more incentive to try heroic mode (which is, basically, difference between normal dungeon and mythic dungeon without a key) and upgrade from a bad player to a good player, who tries to be a better player, not to have a character that makes his mistakes irrelevant.

Legendary system enforces this behavior, there are plenty of players with top legendaries who do less DPS than good players with non-bis legendaries or without them mostly because they fail to do the encounter.
I get what you are talking about, that increasing your ilvl increases chances of finishing harder encounters, which is fine. But legendaries are not that great in this case. If you decide to waste another week on doing normal EN instead of wiping and getting better in heroic/mythic you get lower ilvl on average (because items you get from there are worthless outside of legendaries and trinkets)

I get what you're saying but yes, legendaries are "that great". In some cases, they are ridiculously strong, such as the gloves and ring combo for arms warrior.
Having thoes two will make a huge difference especially if you're a "weak" player as just can pretty much just spam your skills and never really be punished for it while a player without the gloves would run out of rage.

The spec is pretty average without at least the gloves though so the upcoming patch will make it rather useless but still.

[Ehuehuecopter]

I get what you're saying but yes, legendaries are "that great". In some cases, they are ridiculously strong, such as the gloves and ring combo for arms warrior.
Having thoes two will make a huge difference especially if you're a "weak" player as just can pretty much just spam your skills and never really be punished for it while a player without the gloves would run out of rage.

The spec is pretty average without at least the gloves though so the upcoming patch will make it rather useless but still.

This issue has already been adressed, problem is that some spec are fucking shit w/o legendary but when they got 1 bis they do more than 10% extra dps than w/o

this is a spec problem not really legendary.

see sub that w/o boots are garbage



but at the end of the day

good player>bad player even with legz

[Aggrophobic]

This issue has already been adressed, problem is that some spec are fucking shit w/o legendary but when they got 1 bis they do more than 10% extra dps than w/o

this is a spec problem not really legendary.

see sub that w/o boots are garbage



but at the end of the day

good player>bad player even with legz

It is not at all adressed. They nerfed the items without actually fixing the classes in most cases.

[Charge me Doctor]

I get what you're saying but yes, legendaries are "that great". In some cases, they are ridiculously strong, such as the gloves and ring combo for arms warrior.
Having thoes two will make a huge difference especially if you're a "weak" player as just can pretty much just spam your skills and never really be punished for it while a player without the gloves would run out of rage.

The spec is pretty average without at least the gloves though so the upcoming patch will make it rather useless but still.

I agree that some specs are almost unplayable without certain legendaries (mostly arms warriors and UH DKs and fire mages post 7.1.5), but it doesn't change the fact that legendaries do not make players good players. There are ~875ilvl players with best legendaries doing 370k DPS and players of same ilvl with worse (or none) legendaries doing 400k+. In fact, i've seen a log of an arms warrior with legendary leg piece doing more DPS than people with hands+ring on heroic ToV, and it wasn't something like 10k difference, but about 50k difference.

Just browse through WCL to see that yourself, legendaries do not make bad players good all of the sudden. They do make unplayable specs pretty much playable and even competitive, but more often than not you have two more specs to go for if you just happen to go blindly balls-deep into arms warrior artifact without realizing that you are incredibly dependent on two legendaries if you aim for high ranks, aka raiding mythic

[Ehuehuecopter]

It is not at all adressed. They nerfed the items without actually fixing the classes in most cases.

Because unfortunately blizzard listen to the retard QQ of bonobos.

i mean they nerfed mm boots from 1sec to 0.8sec


how can this be "work" ?



there are a lot of items random nerfd instead of fixing the relative class

[MasterOfNone]

You are upostu be behind players what plays more. Thats how game works. Like what do you want? Blizzard to stop them from playing so you can catch up with them? Put insade game soft caps so you dont feel forced to play game? Casuals will never and dont deserver to catch up to more hardcore players end of story.

i think i understand this garbage, but not sure. regardless, you are wrong. in so many ways. this expansion requires 10 times more dedication than previous expansions. if you don see it, you arent playing the same game as everyone else. thats what the poster was getting at. hop off your high horse about bashing on "casuals" because it has shit to do with it.

[munkeyinorbit]

I definitely hope this is sarcasm. I feel like it is.

Even the top guilds in the world said they didn't bench anyone due to bad legendaries. I've never seen a single pug even require a legendary and most of the top US 20 guilds I've seen recruit don't require one either. They don't even ask how many you've got.

I've seen guilds recruit based on legendarys and how progressed your artifact is. Either they got what they wanted pretty quick or they were just laughed out of chat. Those people exist and if the community doesn't get on top of that shit and make sure it doesn't happen again, it will become a thing.

[Deleted]

explain how it does

Try some reason before writing bullshit next time. This is pretty logical for anyone who has a graduation.

[munkeyinorbit]

i think i understand this garbage, but not sure. regardless, you are wrong. in so many ways. this expansion requires 10 times more dedication than previous expansions. if you don see it, you arent playing the same game as everyone else. thats what the poster was getting at. hop off your high horse about bashing on "casuals" because it has shit to do with it.

sounds like he is saying that casuals shouldn't have the same number of legendaries because they play less. Sounds pretty legit to me. This expansion doesn't require 10 x the dedication. You and the two guildies you discussed this with may think so but you are pretty wrong. You are not REQUIRED to do anything. You can choose to do it and you get greater chance of getting legendaries but only bads say that you need them. Here is a website you can go to that will give you some basic advice on improving yourself with out the need for legendaries. Click here to get better/. Thanks for your contribution but reading comprehension is a prerequisite of arguing on the internet.

[exor37]

Try some reason before writing bullshit next time. This is pretty logical for anyone who has a graduation.

u are the guy who think a random P2W korean mmo is more balanced than WOW with out explaining any reason , and you need some one to explain to you why P2W system is NOT balanced tho....... This is pretty logical

[MasterOfNone]

sounds like he is saying that casuals shouldn't have the same number of legendaries because they play less. Sounds pretty legit to me. This expansion doesn't require 10 x the dedication. You and the two guildies you discussed this with may think so but you are pretty wrong. You are not REQUIRED to do anything. You can choose to do it and you get greater chance of getting legendaries but only bads say that you need them. Here is a website you can go to that will give you some basic advice on improving yourself with out the need for legendaries. Click here to get better/. Thanks for your contribution but reading comprehension is a prerequisite of arguing on the internet.

lol ok genius let me slow it down for you.

A) no one said shit about unfair legendaries.
B) minute for minute, you get less done in this expansion than any other. THATS THE POINT WITH MORE TIME SPENT. the other poster is trying to blame casuals for blizzards poor game design here, and you are too daft to see it as well apparently. professions say hello btw. no one said shit about required to "do anything". that is obviously an understood in ANY game so yeah...
C)reading comprehension IS a pre-requisite to discussion indeed, however one person shits on you blizzard fan boys because (i guess we arent allowed to state opinion if it goes against the almighty blizzard) we have this different view, and that makes us bad players i guess. so much for your comprehension....

[munkeyinorbit]

lol ok genius let me slow it down for you.

A) no one said shit about unfair legendaries.
B) minute for minute, you get less done in this expansion than any other. THATS THE POINT WITH MORE TIME SPENT. the other poster is trying to blame casuals for blizzards poor game design here, and you are too daft to see it as well apparently. professions say hello btw. no one said shit about required to "do anything". that is obviously an understood in ANY game so yeah...
C)reading comprehension IS a pre-requisite to discussion indeed, however one person shits on you blizzard fan boys because (i guess we arent allowed to state opinion if it goes against the almighty blizzard) we have this different view, and that makes us bad players i guess. so much for your comprehension....

How angry are you buddy? Wipe the froth from your chin and breath. Calm down.
A) you are correct no one said anything about bad legendaries. I'm guessing you got so worked up and angry that you thought someone said shit about bad legendaries. You should probably take a breather from the internet. It makes you so angry that you hallucinate people saying stuff.
B)no he wasn't. Again, you are either hallucinating or you are actually having an argument with yourself in your head and you are confusing your own thoughts with what someone else (didn't) say.
C) I am no Blizzard fan boy but it is fact that no legendary will ever get a player over the line. Almost no one is getting sit because of legendaries and only bads think that legendaries will make them better. You didn't follow my link did you because I am pretty sure I didn't link http://howtogetangryandflyoffthehandle.com

get some help. please. it will help you and I worry.

[MasterOfNone]

How angry are you buddy? Wipe the froth from your chin and breath. Calm down.
A) you are correct no one said anything about bad legendaries. I'm guessing you got so worked up and angry that you thought someone said shit about bad legendaries. You should probably take a breather from the internet. It makes you so angry that you hallucinate people saying stuff.
B)no he wasn't. Again, you are either hallucinating or you are actually having an argument with yourself in your head and you are confusing your own thoughts with what someone else (didn't) say.
C) I am no Blizzard fan boy but it is fact that no legendary will ever get a player over the line. Almost no one is getting sit because of legendaries and only bads think that legendaries will make them better. You didn't follow my link did you because I am pretty sure I didn't link http://howtogetangryandflyoffthehandle.com

get some help. please. it will help you and I worry.

i think you have me confused with someone else, because ALL of the bullshit you just posted has NO relevance to what was said. in comments A and C you are still talking about legendaries when it wasnt even part of the original discussion yet you say "no one said anything about legendaries." you are absolutely ridiculous in every aspect of the word. i cant/wont waste another minute typing a response to someone so dense.

[trm90]

You know, looking back, Blizzard really should have stuck to their original plan of disabling legendaries in the first few weeks of mythic progression

[munkeyinorbit]

i think you have me confused with someone else, because ALL of the bullshit you just posted has NO relevance to what was said. in comments A and C you are still talking about legendaries when it wasnt even part of the original discussion yet you say "no one said anything about legendaries." you are absolutely ridiculous in every aspect of the word. i cant/wont waste another minute typing a response to someone so dense.

reading comprehension is super hard. It is the hardest thing anyone can do.

I agree with you on point A) and yet I was talking bullshit? Point C) was about you calling me a blizzard fanboy, a personal attack. I am allowed to personally attack you back. Now you can't handle it and are trying to "go out on a high" where everyone of your posts I have read contain personal attacks and confused ramblings arguing against stuff that didn't happen. Lets go back to my first sentence which set you flying off the handle into a paranoid rage.

"sounds like he is saying that casuals shouldn't have the same number of legendaries because they play less."

Wow. What an attack on your beliefs. No wonder you have lost the plot. I almost didn't reply to you because you are now sitting there, beside yourself in anger not knowing what to do.

Calm down. Breathe. It is not worth causing harm over some internet random.

[MasterOfNone]

reading comprehension is super hard. It is the hardest thing anyone can do.

I agree with you on point A) and yet I was talking bullshit? Point C) was about you calling me a blizzard fanboy, a personal attack. I am allowed to personally attack you back. Now you can't handle it and are trying to "go out on a high" where everyone of your posts I have read contain personal attacks and confused ramblings arguing against stuff that didn't happen. Lets go back to my first sentence which set you flying off the handle into a paranoid rage.

"sounds like he is saying that casuals shouldn't have the same number of legendaries because they play less."

Wow. What an attack on your beliefs. No wonder you have lost the plot. I almost didn't reply to you because you are now sitting there, beside yourself in anger not knowing what to do.

Calm down. Breathe. It is not worth causing harm over some internet random.

are you one of those people that think just because people disagree with you that its RAGE RAGE RAGE flying off the handle? god, you are worse than my wife.
two things...
1) im not raging so stop with the ridiculousness there
2) my STARTING comments were not directed at you. they were at the other poster. you have literally no frame of reference by what you are posting here. you are trying to create a conflict out of something that you obviously know jack shit about. commenting when un-informed. not smart. if "blizzard fan boy" is " a personal attack" (which i loled at that response and died a little bit inside due to realizing how pathetic people are), then YOU are the one being triggered. stop being such an emotional baby ironically while calling other people out for being emotional.

[Demeia]

100% agree

They definitely said something about us being able to target legendaries--although I think I remember that comment more along the lines of "the content you do will determine the legendary you get." A player who does only world quests might find healing pants, bubble neck pretty awesome whereas I wanted throughput. Of course, that system would have led to my avoiding WQ as much as possible--or to just deleting caches (more likely). But we would have had some control over it.

Still think the solution here is throughput legendaries only; utility legendaries only will make no one excited, ever.

[Adoxe]

Makes me wonder how many dozens of people didn't get to raid because they had the wrong legendary.

0. Even Method wasn't benching people for no legendaries.

[azurrei]

0. Even Method wasn't benching people for no legendaries.

Of course they were not benching *people*...because *people* made multiples of the same class and used the one with the best legendary luck - hell, some people in top guilds switched mains because their alt got stronger legendaries. It was/is a problematic design...and actual benching is probably much more prevalent in the *many* more guilds that are barely "mythic" raiding guilds because they need every edge they can get to even progress.

[Eapoe]

They definitely said something about us being able to target legendaries--although I think I remember that comment more along the lines of "the content you do will determine the legendary you get." A player who does only world quests might find healing pants, bubble neck pretty awesome whereas I wanted throughput. Of course, that system would have led to my avoiding WQ as much as possible--or to just deleting caches (more likely). But we would have had some control over it.

Still think the solution here is throughput legendaries only; utility legendaries only will make no one excited, ever.

As for your quote, I believe that's false and all they said was you could target specific legendaries. Now, in a very real sense they did not lie about this as you can target legendaries for your spec you want the legendary for. Therefore, you are "specifically" targeting legendaries for a MM hunter or a BM hunter and not just a Hunter in general. Play on words but still very true.

- - - Updated - - -

0. Even Method wasn't benching people for no legendaries.

As others have said, if you read the entire post they say no one got benched for not having the best legendaries; however, players main swapped because the alts that they are required to have and maintain (yes, this is a thing in the top % of guilds) got better legendaries than what they were going to main as. Method didn't have to bench anyone because the players chose to bench their main and swap it because a different character they have got a better luck roll.